Before we all miss the whole point, here it is "restated in bold and red".
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India would have been much more successful in convincing the world and Pakistan, had it asked for a joint investigation followed by two or three names of LeT. That would have put the right kind of pressure on Pakistan.
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Did India jump the gun? by accusing Pakistan instead of cooperating?
Did India jump the gun? by accusing Pakistan instead of cooperating?
It was Pakistan which backtracked on its pledge to send the chief of ISI .... actually this was not surprising for Indians ... they are aware of the different power centers in Pakistan .....
It was Pakistan which backtracked on its pledge to send the chief of ISI .... actually this was not surprising for Indians ... they are aware of the different power centers in Pakistan .....
ISI chief was not invited to participate in "investigation", more likely just to view the "evidence". Investigations are carried out by lower rank officers.
ISI chief was not invited to participate in "investigation", more likely just to view the "evidence". Investigations are carried out by lower rank officers.
I dont know what information you have .... but he was definetly not being called for a "dressing down" ..... Indians had information and they wanted the ISI chief to come here and see for himself ..... maybe would have made him talk to the captured terrorist also ....
But the fact remains that it was something the two state heads had talked about !!!!!! If a state head can't keep his word ... what is the point of getting some low rank officer ..... who is going to believe him?
This is what I said too 
You missed the point… point to have low rank officer would be to “investigate” but since that was not the Indian intent so they lost the interest.
It was Pakistan which backtracked on its pledge to send the chief of ISI .... actually this was not surprising for Indians ... they are aware of the different power centers in Pakistan .....
Blame your media for that. Indian media started saying WE SUMMONED ISI CHIEF TO INDIA, again and again and again. It became matter of Ego instead of investigation, I would have been very unhappy if ISI chief would have gone. I am glad decision was changed not to send ISI chief. Its not a joke. Did you ever seen or heard anyone calling their chief like we have summoned this or that person?
and by the way I saw some good grilling of your british minister Shiv shankar mukhar jee on news night tonight on BBC. I will try to get the video of it, so you can see it yourself. Questions have started appearing in western media already and I am glad they did.
Point was that the evidence was already there and the ISI chief was requested to view the evidence and take action on it. What is the requirement of a low rank officer. Is your chief incapable of understanding the evidence.
Point was that the evidence was already there and the ISI chief was requested to view the evidence and take action on it.
wah, you investigate, you bring (or fabricate?) evidence and you want our ISI chief to go there look at the evidence and act on it, wah wah, nice imagination.
What is the requirement of a low rank officer. Is your chief incapable of understanding the evidence.
Reiterate: Participate in the investigation. But I guess since you guys have already made up your mind and "concluded" all investigation then you are right there is no point for any ISI chief/representative to go there.
Point was that the evidence was already there and the ISI chief was requested to view the evidence and take action on it. What is the requirement of a low rank officer. Is your chief incapable of understanding the evidence.
what do you think ISI chief is a clerk or he was suppose to join investigations with your investigators.
you guys had already made your mind chacha rehman was all around, you guys have even 5 different names for same terrorist.
and why same old 20 list did all were involved in attacks.
by the way main reason why decision was revoked was your medias reaction, Manmohan requested for him but your media said he Summoned him.
It was Pakistan which backtracked on its pledge to send the chief of ISI .... actually this was not surprising for Indians ... they are aware of the different power centers in Pakistan .....
No whining please. Mumbai attacks are really tragic and serious for us Pakistanis too. It is time to stop the blame game and a quit crying hai main mer gaee.
You know it and we all know it that big flashy tours of presidents, ministers etc. are distractions and in fact a burden on local law enforcement folks.
Sharing the evidence is the first step towards working "together". However if you don't believe in the basic core of mutual respect and cooperation, then why to cr@p this thread?
India provided the list of 20 wanted after amassing a million forces on border in Dec 2001 … but it is sad that when Pakistan sent them own list of wanted (including A K Advani name who is wanted for terrorism in Sindh, just after Partition, before he took refuge in India), India did not wanted to respond in kind.
Anyhow, here is Pakistani response to Indian list first time they sent. There is time difference as the news is of 2002, but situation of list of ‘wanted criminals’ in 2008 is same, and even though response is not as prompt as last time but hopefully the response is going to be same (kuch lou kuch dou). :). Here is Pakistani response then what India should consider it for today too.
Pakistan Has List of “Wanted” Persons for India: FM
Pakistan Has List of “Wanted” Persons for India: FM
(Last updated at: (Beijing Time) Sunday, January 20, 2002)
Pakistani Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar said in Islamabad Saturday that Pakistan had the list of wanted persons which would be handed over to India with the course of time.
Pakistani Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar said in Islamabad Saturday that Pakistan had the list of wanted persons which would be handed over to India with the course of time
“We have names on our list and we will forward that with the course of time to the government of India,” he said while addressing a joint press conference with Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Many.
Responding to a question about handing over Indian nationals alleged to be in Pakistan, Sattar said neither country had any reason to give protection to criminals who had committed crimes in one country or other.
He said India had now provided (on Friday) to Pakistan the names and back grounds of most of these 20 people whose list had been given to Pakistan earlier.
“I saw that list this morning and we shall of course study that information very carefully,” he said.
As far the extradition was concerned, he said, it was a complex legal and political issue.
“We shall examine the cases of Indian nationals who are alleged to be in Pakistan, try to trace them, study the information provided to us by the government of India with regard to these people and then take further action in accordance with the merits,” he said.
The extradition of the 20 “most wanted” – including both Indian and Pakistani nationals – is one of India’s main demands for resolving the stand-off which has left the two countries poised for war.
President Pervez Musharraf has ruled out sending Pakistani nationals to India, saying they will instead be tried under Pakistani law if evidence was presented against them.
what do you think ISI chief is a clerk or he was suppose to join investigations with your investigators. you guys had already made your mind chacha rehman was all around, you guys have even 5 different names for same terrorist.
and why same old 20 list did all were involved in attacks.
by the way main reason why decision was revoked was your medias reaction, Manmohan requested for him but your media said he Summoned him.
Well the ISI chief is "supposed" to be working for Pakistani government .... he was not summoned by India .... the PM of Pakistan was asked to send him to India .... now if the Pak PM does not have control over his "clerks" .... then why make the Indians are talking with the wrong guys.
Nice try .... media had nothing to do .... the Pak army chief took teh decision after .... as he claims "someone" in Pakistan was "threatned" by the Indian foreign minister .... if you know the identity of this "someone" do share it with us.
The list of 20 ...... these are not some small time crooks .... Dawood has a red corner alert issued against him .... if Pakistan does not have proof against his activity ... then it is shamefull as Interpol has sent it to Pakistan ..... i think some "clerk" is sitting on the "file" .......
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
and so the Great President Zardari has refused to handover the 20 wanted (by India):
:chai:
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
"But Pakistani President Asif Zardari says his country will not hand over 20 terrorist suspects India has asked be extradited, adding that any evidence of involvement in the attacks by those in Pakistan will be judged in Pakistani courts. "
^Great! Two thumbs for that.
It is not 20, but 40 people on the list.
Mumbai (Bombay): India demands Pakistan hand over 40 wanted ‘terrorists’
India demands Pakistan hand over 40 wanted ‘terrorists’
ndia has demanded that Pakistan hand over 40 people it believes were involved in attacks on Indian soil and other serious crimes, the Indian Foreign Minister announced today.
Pranab Mukherjee also called on Pakistan to follow up on its recent arrest of several militants by completely dismantling the facilities of terrorist groups operating on its territory.
“We have given them lists of 40 persons not one, not 20… and we have also pointed out that their denial is not going to resolve the issue,” Mr Mukherjee said during a parliamentary debate on the Mumbai attack.
“Please follow it up seriously,” he said. “If it is not followed to the logical conclusion - complete dismantling of the infrastructure facilities available from that side to facilitate terrorist attack, of banning the organisations - how does that help us?”
It was India’s first official response to Pakistan’s crackdown on militant groups, which began on Sunday with a raid on a camp used by Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group India blames for the Mumbai attack.
Pakistani officials say they have arrested about 20 militants, including Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, LeT’s operations chief and the alleged mastermind of the Mumbai attack, and Zarar Shah, LeT’s communications chief.
However, Pakistan says it wants proof of their role in Mumbai and has categorically ruled out handing them to India, pledging to try them on its own territory if there is evidence against them.
“India has not provided any evidence so far,” Rehman Malik, the head of Pakistan’s interior ministry, told reporters today. “We have told India that we will extend full cooperation to bring the culprits to justice.”
India has not specified how it will respond if the 40 suspects it wants are not handed over, but it has said it is not considering military action.
During today’s parliamentary debate, Mr Mukherjee was asked by one angry lawmaker why India was not attacking Pakistan. “That is no solution,” he replied.
After LeT militants attacked India’s parliament in 2001, India and Pakistan massed more than half a million troops on their common border and almost went to war for the fourth time since independence in 1947.
Pakistan has warned that if India reacts the same way this time, it will pull back Pakistani troops fighting al-Qaeda and Taleban militants near the Afghan border, potentially jeopardizing US and Nato forces in Afghanistan.
John Negroponte, the US Deputy Secretary of State, arrived in Islamabad today to try to prevent that outcome, while at the same time pressing Pakistan’s government to take stronger action against militant groups.
Mr Negroponte is expected to meet Asif Ali Zardari, Pakistan’s President, and Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Pakistan’s Foreign Minister.
Western diplomats say he is likely to urge them to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa, an Islamic charity which is led by LeT’s founder and widely regarded by security experts as a front for the militant group.
The UN said yesterday that it had added JuD and four militant leaders to a list of people and groups facing sanctions for ties to al Qaeda or the Taliban, including a freeze on assets and travel ban. Among the four were Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, the JuD leader and LeT founder.
However, he vowed today to fight that decision in Pakistani and international courts, and challenged Indian and US officials to produce evidence against his organisation.
India’s Home Minister, meanwhile, announced an overhaul of security laws and national infrastructure aimed at fixing the intelligence and other security lapses exposed by the Mumbai attack.
Among the measures are the creation of a federal investigative agency, like the United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the establishment of 20 counter-insurgency and anti-terror schools for training commandos.
“The finger of suspicion unmistakeably points to the territory of our neighbour Pakistan,” said Palaniappan Chidambaram, whose predecessor as Home Minister resigned after the Mumbai attack.
“We cannot go back to business as usual,” he told parliament.
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
If these people are 'state less actor' why not send them to India for court trial? And why not throw out Dawood he is not even pakistani national !!!
I can see the solution of this situation reaching at end.. US will force Pakistan, Pakistan will blackmail pulling out from Afganistan, India will keep asking US, US and whatever western countries to pressurise pakistan.. and in end Pakistan will have to handover terrorist (may be not all, but few famous and dawood for sure.. ). Every thing will go back to normal, Congress in india will claim victory, will win next election. Pakistan is happy BJP (or hindu party as they fear) will not be in govt next time..
I think general public should ask govt to get rid of terrorist from pakistani soil Either hand them to FBI or India.. their daily problem of bombing will be solved and everyone will have a happy near year 2009 ...
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
Why does Pakistan keep shooting themselves in their foot? Seems to me that they don't want to be seen as acceeding to any Indian demand, so end up protecting the terrorists ....until the terrorists lead them to unbearable international pressure, sanctions and bad name. And then they are compelled to give up the terrorists anyway.
So why not right upfront catch and presecute the terrorists before all the terror, loass and grief?
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
And China too believes it was India’s inside job
December 8th, 2008 - 5:33 pm ICT by IANS -
New Delhi, Dec 8 (IANS) The Indian government has taken “serious note” of a “mischievous and misleading” report on the Mumbai terror strike by a Chinese journalist in the People’s Daily which speculated that “Hindu youth” could be behind these attacks. “We have taken serious note of this misleading and mischievous report and taken it up with appropriate authorities,” official sources told IANS.
“Although a group called Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility for the attack, it can be seen from the red thread worn by the attackers around their waist that they could be Hindu youth,” a report published in People’s Daily, the official organ of the Chinese Communist party, two days after the Mumbai terror attack](http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/tag/mumbai-terror-attack)s said. The report has been written by Ren Yan, Mumbai-based correspondent of Rebmin Ribao (People’s Daily).
“Analysts are quoted as saying that radical elements from Hinduism could also carry out this attack, because they have long opposed the US’ hegemonistic policies,” the report said. The report, however, did not name analysts the Chinese correspondent was quoting in his report in support of his claim.
The report, published Nov 28, said that the Mumbai terror attacks could be the handiwork of “radical elements within the Hindu community” who are “unhappy with domestic and foreign policies of the Congress-led government” and speculates that these attacks could have been engineered to influence the outcome of the general elections.
“Although the terrorists are not yet identified, such analysis is offering a new angle to the motives and counter-measures for such terrorist strikes,” the report claimed.
The People’s Daily report echoed speculative stories in sections of the Pakistani media that sought to blame Hindu extremists for the Mumbai attacks](http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/tag/mumbai-terror-attack).
“It was a highly speculative story and came at a time when all evidence was pointing towards Pakistan,” said Sujit Dutta, a China expert at Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA).
“It was an attempt to shift the blame from Pakistan and Pakistan-based elements to India-based elements,” Dutta said, echoing that they indicated a “design” as the report echoed stories published in Pakistani dailies like the Dawn.
China, which calls itself an “all-weather friend of Pakistan”, has called for more dialogue and cooperation between New Delhi and Islamabad in the wake of the Mumbai terror attacks.
With India and the world putting pressure on Pakistan to take action against militants responsible for the Mumbai carnage, Beijing has lauded Islamabad’s role and offered it full cooperation.
India frowns at Chinese news report suggesting Hindu hand in Mumbai
Why is India protecting terrorists? Why not hand them over to Pakistan for interrogation, if they’re Pakistani? 
Re: India provides the same old list of terrorist - same old tiring rhetoric
it is simple. Some Chinese are simply throwing a harmless bone to their friend who asked for a favor, that's all.
You will note that the Chinese did not stop the UN from sanctioning against your so called 'charity' group called JuD.
Question is - why does it take a UN resolution before Pakistan will stop protecting terrorists?