Importance of Qu'ran

simplepen · June 5, 2002, 1:07am

"The Bible (Old Testament & New Testament) has endured many severe predicaments because of the language barrier. The original manuscripts (ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures) were translated to Greek and Latin. In fact, from the year 800 AD to 1539 AD, Latin was the only language of the Bible. Because of the continuous waves of translations; Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to English; Christians most definitely and seriously handicapped any attempts to faithfully translate the original author's intended meanings.** This problem, all thanks be to the Almighty (swt), has been completely avoided in the Qur'an, since it has remained from the time of its inspiration to the present day in the same language it was originally revealed in, the Arabic Language. The Arabic Language has remained a living language from that day to this, and the book itself has always been in the hands of the people and not "the elite."**

So then my Brother, you believe GOD can Keep The Qu'ran PURE, and yet was unable to keep The BIBLE PURE.
This seems to me, like you are saying, Man has POWER over The Creator.

How can this Be, I ask you?

This to me seems very much a double standard, and The Creator is NOT One who I Believe falls into this catergory.

The OT was written far BEFORE either the Quran, or The NT, so you now say The OT as well as The NT is corrupted, yet the Qu'ran has been Kept PURE.

This is NOT an a cup which holds water in my eyes, for it is a double standard, and ONLY a Standard which is EQUAL across the BOARD, is one which is The TRUE LIGHT OF GOD.

Double Standards, are simply MAN's Way of Explaining what THEY FEEL is WISDOM of GOD, when in Fact it is only WISDOM of MAN, thus in this Way, Man places himself EQUAL to GOD Our Creator, and THAT, to me spells Blasphmy against The Creator of The WORLD, and All Life upon it.

Peace.

Simplepen

Ibrahim · June 5, 2002, 1:24am

[quote]
Simplepen wrote: It seems to me my Friend, it is YOU who indeed has a very Limited Understanding of Scriptures, as relating to The Holy Bible and only quantify based on that limitation which has Lead YOU to this Misconception"
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen,

you are welcome to your opinion, but, you must endeavor to establish them as being TRUE when you make them public on forums, ** by putting forward the facts,** comments like this without facts, might not be a good thing to do in religious matters.

[quote]
The Bible is a Collection of Books, written over Many Lifetimes upon this earth, by men who served GOD with All their hearts and Minds, and Soul as servants.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: right and wrong my friend, You are corrcet in the sense that these books contains many details of what came to pass at various timeframes

You are wrong! in the sense that they had been currently written by unknown authors and not by the actual people who witnessed these events. In addition, due to the length of time, those words have been corrupted/altered/edited/ and are no more reliable as their originals are not with us.

[quote]
The Book of The Qu'ran was written by a single man. Is this NOT the TRUTH?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : The final testament (Qur’an) was revealed to and through a single man, just like the torah was revealed to and through a single man and the Gospel was revealed to and through a single man.
Thus If we want to be honest to ourselves all revelations were revealed to mankind via the same process. The problem was not everyone accepted these revelations and due to ever increasing opposition by man and the devil, it came to pass that man had no choice but to alter it, in order to please each other. Which is what we are witnessing today, even here in this fourm, people lie or hide the truth because they feel it may offend others.

Thus when one testament became altered another had to be established AFTER attempts to correct it had been exhausted by sending other prophets and messengers who also failed in their attempt to correct it. ** This is why the Bible has so many records of prophets and their endeavors to correct the message given to Prophet Moses (pbuh) and the final messenger for that revelation was Christ ( pbuh) who also FAILED to correct that testament. **

In this manner, when there was NOWAY to redirect mankind to the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, a new revelation was sent to another tribe who were more amicable to the TRUTRH, to establish the truth, as was prophesized from the beginning to Moses. (pbuh)

[quote]
You say the Books inspired by GOD written by Many men, have been adultrated, yet he Book written by only One Man is TRUE.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: you may verify this for yourself by looking at the confusion the Bible creates by itself. No matter what argument you try to put forward with the Bible and by the Grace of God, I can counter it with the Bible.

Mind you I will not be using the Qur’an but only the Bible to prove you wrong.
Meaning when you say, “Yes” by using the bible to make your point Clear , I can proof it, “No” by using the same Bible.
Now this is very silly and not the works of the Creator but the works of mankind and the devil.

Whereas you do not have this problem in the Qur’an. which says, ** Truth stands out Clear from errors,** and that is why the bible can be proven false with the bible, whereas the Qur’an cannot be proven false with the Qur’an or any other scripture.

[quote]
Is it not True This man was Killed before he could Finish the complete Book?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: No!! where did you get such a notion from? , whatever God designed was fulfilled, way before he returned to His creator by His command.

[quote]
It seems to me, The Creator would Indeed Have The PWOER to Keep HIS HOLY WORD PURE, would He not? After all, He Created ALL THINGS did He not?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says Here is where you are not understanding what God wanted and what God allowed as a mercy for mankind. .

First, God can destroy a person even before he/she may want to commit a sin, agreed?

But God gave man freewill, as such God allows mankind to do what they like for a period of time, after which he had promised to judge us according to our works.

Thus even though mankind had willfully altered the message they were not immediately punished but were shown mercy and sent help by way of additional prophets to guide them aright, but all of them ended up being humiliated and killed…even the special creation (Christ) had to endure the same fate… read the Bible.

[quote]
Yet this single man, if writing for The Creator a Book of TRUTH, how could GOD have Let HIM Be Killed before he finished what GOD wanted him to do, unless if FACT he was NOT serving GOD The Creator, but satan The Swayer.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: I believe you have been misled so kindly correct yourself by finding out the TRUTH from Islamic sources as to what was accomplished by the final prophet and why his commission was completed before his natural death, not killed by anyone.

[quote]
I only ask, for this are thoughts within my Mind, which I do NOT SEE answered so easily. Perhaps in Your Great Wisdom, you can explain so we may have a Deeper Understanding of What You Believe to Be TRUTH.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Oh please you do not need to explain about your intentions, you are most welcomed to ask any question , whatever that is not CLEAER to you. I or the many other people of this forum will be able to help you.

Only thing I must warn you, is that, ** I deal with scriptures and I will not lie concerning them, and I will answer based on them and it may not be pleasing to you or those that are against it, as such I hope you will not be offended by my direct answers, which may shake your faith and cause it to crumble.**

[quote]
After All, You do TRUST The Creator with All Your Heart and Mind, and Soul do you NOT?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : Sure and I hope you too will respond by being true to your word and not make false allegations without evidence.

[quote]
How can He Be The Creator and All Powerful, if His enemy can so easily corrupt what began as The WORD of GOD.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; My friend, you do not seem to understand that, man are being tested on this planet as such, it was man who had been entrusted to keep the word INTACT, yet they chose to disobey His command, not the other way around. Trials are for man, not for God.

[quote]
For what I have understood as what you have shared, is that these books you mentioned WERE The WORD of GOD, but That in Time they have Become Corrupted. Is this Not what you have shared? I ask for you seem to think I do NOT have the ability to understand the Wisdom you long to share, when in Fact i still have yet to SEE and GODLY Wisdom within The Words you have Posted for my View. In Fact, You remind me very much of The pharasees of so long ago, who Believed hey were Rightous simply because they appeared Pure, when in Fact The Hearts within them were anything but PURE.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says My friend, be direct, do not make accusations which you cannot put forward evidence for, now you can chose to disagree with me, for whatever reason, you may have but if you make allegations, I will demand for evidence and then you will have an embarrassing situation on your hands. So be a man, discuss the subject , do not try to abuse me by branding the poster, as per your whims and fancies.

[quote]
My Hope is this is NOT the case with you, but time shall make it Clear to me, for I am Indeed a servant of The Creator.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: that is good, so feel free to find out how good a servant you are!
Hope that helps and answers your questions.

Regards
Ibrahim

** Your life is not yours; it was only given to you for you to wake up. Don’t postpone the time of your awakening. **

Ibrahim · June 5, 2002, 1:32am

Ibrahim says Greetings of peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen, I think “ Uzee” had given you answers for some questions, so I will touch on what may be yet unclear to you.

[quote]
Seems to me JESUS was The Man who was Perfect in Character, sent by GOD, for you say so yourself, in that GOD took him up into Heaven before his death upon The CROSS.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says that will be a false Christian doctrine, since the very Bible you believe in says he was hanged on a tree, so it is now up to you to identify , was he nailed to a cross or was he hanged on a tree or both of them are false narrations?

[quote]
which is what The Quran Teaches,
[/quote]

Ibrahim says the Qur’an confirms that Christ was going to be crucified , as is also conveyed the Bible but yet, not CLEARLY understood by Christians to an extant, in the sense that, no such thing happened, and only people ended up with such illusions due to what was happening at that moment.

[quote]
and yet by that very teaching alone, The Mission of Jesus here upon this earth was Voided.
[/quoted]

Ibrahim says: are you in doubt that the Jews lost their temple, when they tried to crucify, (not nail him to a cross) Christ? In addition by 70 AD, they were totally thrown out from that region for good?

[quote]
For Christians Believe the mission was simply to Pay the wages of SIN which required DEATH, so by saying he did not die, but was taken up to heaven first, and another was place upon the tree instead, Voids the entire Reason He came.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says ; This is very childish and not worthy of any rational thought. I am sorry, your sins cannot be taken away by the death of another. So please get real and for God’s sake THINK.

Read!

Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. ** The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:** the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Kindly get rational and do not follow others BLINDLY!

[quote]
This, written by a single man, does NOT seem to be of the common sense of a Child of The Creator, and yet so many have come to believe this as TRUTH.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says I am wondering how you came to conclude like this? Was it blind faith or was it lack of knowledge?

[quote]
I do Not understand how you claim Jesus came, walked, taught, was of GOD, but at he end of his Mission made so very Clear Throughout the Bible, the teaching in The Quran VOIDS the WORK Jesus came to do.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says The Qur’an does not voids the works of Christ, BUT it confirm what he did and removes the errors/misconceptions that are found in the Gospel.

[quote]
and anything in the Bible which CLEARLY exposes mistakes such as this single one I have just shared, is dismissed as Corruption of what was once The WORD of GOD. In Fact by saying this, you are saying GOD, Our Creator, is NOT able to Keep HIS WORD PURE.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says your conclusions is due to lack of knowledge and the inability to accept the truth.

Hope that helps

Regards
Ibrahim

** the afternoon knows what the morning NEVER suspected **

Ibrahim · June 5, 2002, 3:30am

[quote]
Simple pen wrote: So then my Brother, you believe GOD can Keep The Qu'ran PURE, and yet was unable to keep The BIBLE PURE. This seems to me, like you are saying, Man has POWER over The Creator.

How can this Be, I ask you?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen let me answer you by using the Bible

Kindly read:

Exodus 32:

Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides, front and back.
** The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.**
When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned ** and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain.**

Deuteronomy 12: 32. See that you do all I command you; ** do not add to it or take away from it.**

Ibrahim says hence God did not protect this earlier book as you want it to be , since man was informed that they should not add or omit from that message as given to Moses. (pbuh) .

Now let look at the final chapter of the Gospel

Revelations 22:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: ** If anyone adds anything to them,** God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
** And if anyone takes words away** from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Ibrahim says : hence only a warning was given that man should not try to alter the given message in the past whereas the Final message because it is final message, will be protected from corruption because the Creator knows the end from the beginning.

[quote]
This to me seems very much a double standard, and The Creator is NOT One who I Believe falls into this catergory.
The OT was written far BEFORE either the Quran, or The NT, so you now say The OT as well as The NT is corrupted, yet the Qu'ran has been Kept PURE.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Dear Simplepen, lets get the answers from the Bible

lets look at what had happened

Jeremiah 8: 8. "`How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," ** when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?**

Jeremiah 23: 26. How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, ** who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?**

Jeremiah 36: 23. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, ** until the entire scroll was burned in the fire.**

Ibrahim says: So even though God corrected the works, men still destroyed them and were written again and were corrupted again till Christ it was still the same.

now let look at these statements found in John

21: 24. This is the disciple who testifies to these things ** and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true. **

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that ** even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.**

Ibrahim says: who is this disciple? And why would the words of Christ be more than the whole world, when today we do not even have sufficient words to fit into one full page of a single news paper page, that can be attributed as the actual words of Christ ?
If you still do not believe the Bible has been corrupted read

Luke 1

** Many have undertaken to draw up an account** of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
1. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
2. Therefore, ** since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you,** most excellent Theophilus,

Ibrahim says: thus people decided to write what they have heard, just like our news paper reporters who write and report in our daily news papers, Do you not realize, how many times have they been accused of misquoting or misleading what had been said by others?

I leave it to you to think about it for yourself.

Hope that helps

Regards
Ibrahim

** God’s part we cannot do, our part He will not do **

simplepen · June 5, 2002, 5:28am

“you are welcome to your opinion, but, you must endeavor to establish them as being TRUE when you make them public on forums, by putting forward the facts, comments like this without facts, might not be a good thing to do in religious matters.”

*I am only asking YOU about what YOU put forward as FACT, for you have only place behind YOUR Opinion, a Twisted form of what is in The Bible. I have simply made CLEAR to you, that if you call yourself a servant of The TRUTH, then you MUST be TRUTHFUL in EVERYWAY, and NOT Mold what is Written, to your own interpretation, an then present it as FACT. *

“You are wrong! in the sense that they had been currently written by unknown authors and not by the actual people who witnessed these events. In addition,** due to the length of time,** those words have been corrupted/altered/edited/ and are no more reliable as their originals are not with us.”

So you are saying TIME has Power over The Creator? That the Creator does NOT have the Ability to Perverve What was in The Beginning HIS WORD? Indeed, if this is the case, then You and I do NOT share the same view of The power of The Creator of All Things, for you make The Creator the same as a mortal man.
quote:

The Book of The Qu'ran was written by a single man. Is this NOT the TRUTH?

“Ibrahim says : The final testament (Qur’an) was revealed to and through a single man,

So then Ibrahim says, I am correct with my statement above.

** just like the Torah was revealed to and through a single man**

The Pentateuch is only The First Five Books of The Old Testament, of which there are thirty-nine total Books within the Collection.

*the Gospel was revealed to and through a single man. *

There are FOUR Gospels, each written by a different man, with a different point of view and memories of JESUS as He walk upon The earth, and yet all FOUR Share the very SAME TRUTH. This Indeed to me, is a Collection Inspired by GOD, one I would say has Less of a Chance to be deceiving as The WORD of GOD.

Thus If we want to be honest to ourselves all revelations were revealed to mankind via the same process. The problem was not everyone accepted these revelations and due to ever increasing opposition by man and the devil, it came to pass that man had no choice but to alter it, in order to please each other.

I Agree there have been, and still are men Lead the devil, at work HARD to sway the Children of GOD from The TRUTH of GOD’s WORD.
I also can SEE, how this would be much easier for the Devil to Mislead a single man, who came AFTER Jesus, by appearing as an angel of Light one time, than all the men who have had to have been mislead to Corrupt as you have said has happened.

** Which is what we are witnessing today, even here in this forum, people lie or hide the truth because they feel it may offend others.**

This is indeed what I SEE in The words you have shared when you quote from The Bible held as the WORD of GOD by Christians.

** Thus when one testament became altered another had to be established AFTER attempts to correct it had been exhausted by sending other prophets and messengers who also failed in their attempt to correct it. This is why the Bible has so many records of prophets and their endeavors to correct the message given to Prophet Moses (pbuh) and the final messenger for that revelation was Christ ( pbuh) who also FAILED to correct that testament.
In this manner, when there was NOWAY to redirect mankind to the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, a new revelation was sent to another tribe who were more amicable to the TRUTRH, to establish the truth, as was prophesized from the beginning to Moses. **

It sure is Amazing, that The Creator of Things, repeatly chose men to serve HIM, who Failed, and Failed, and Failed, until The Writer of the Qu’ran. If GOD was a business man, He would have run his business into Bankrupt far sooner than so many life times upon this earth.

Do you really ever THINK about what you have come to Believe, and WHY?

It seems to me, Who You believe as The Creator of ALL Things, is simply a Being, who can NOT get it right.

But I do Believe, this is EXACTLY what satan would want Everyone on This Planet to come to Believe.

“Ibrahim says: you may verify this for yourself by looking at the confusion the Bible creates by itself. No matter what argument you try to put forward with the Bible and by the Grace of God, I can counter it with the Bible.”
Mind you I will not be using the Qur’an but only the Bible to prove you wrong.
Meaning when you say, “Yes” by using the bible to make your point Clear , I can proof it, “No” by using the same Bible.
Now this is very silly and not the works of the Creator but the works of mankind and the devil.
Whereas you do not have this problem in the Qur’an. which says, Truth stands out Clear from errors, and that is why the bible can be proven false with the bible, whereas the Qur’an cannot be proven false with the Qur’an or any other scripture.”

I have my Friend, and The BIBLE is NOT a BOOK of Confusion, yet for a Master of Confusion, any words can be Twisted, as You have already done so from my Eyes to SEE.

I do NOT argue nor Debate, The Bible with any man, for The WORD of GOD needs Not to be Debated.

If you care too, quote any chapter and verse in complete context, and share what you Believe it to mean, and I shall do the very same. Hat is NOT debate, but simply two Children of GOD sharing in Fellowship. If you care, share with what is in Your Quran, as it is Related to The BIBLE, and I shall share as I SEE as well.

The TRUTH is The TRUTH, and so The TRUTH shall Be made CLEAR.

“But God gave man freewill, as such God allows mankind to do what they like for a period of time, after which he had promised to judge us according to our works.
Thus even though mankind had willfully altered the message they were not immediately punished but were shown mercy and sent help by way of additional prophets to guide them aright, but all of them ended up being humiliated and killed…even the special creation (Christ) had to endure the same fate… read the Bible.”

Freewill, is what we have been Given to FOLLOW The TRUTH of GOD, but we have NOT the FREEWIL to CHANGE what GOD has MADE HOLY. The WORD of GOD.

The issue is What is THE WORD of GOD.
You claim it is The Quran written many Years AFTER Jesus was sent is The ONLY TRUE PURE BOOK, written by a single man, and I say it is The COMPLETE COLLECTION of BOOKs written by Many men, both Before and After Jesus came. The BOOKS before speak of The Messiah to Come, and The Books after, speak of the Messiah who came, and shall come again. JESUS.

“Ibrahim says: I believe you have been misled so kindly correct yourself by finding out the TRUTH from Islamic sources as to what was accomplished by the final prophet and why his commission was completed before his natural death, not killed by anyone.”

I shall look further into this, and if I am mistaken, I shall be the first to state so, for I wish ONLY to Speak in the TRUTH, and that is why I asked this as a Question and Not as a matter of Fact.

Ibrahim says : Sure and I hope you too will respond by being true to your word and not make false allegations without evidence.

This is all I ask of not only myself, but of you as well. I do NOT wish to make any allegations, but simply want to compare what you Believe and Why, to what I Believe and why, and how they differ, and why?

I also want You to state the Bible in COMPLETE text and meaning, and NOT simply a word or verse here and there, for any MAN can do so, and claim it says something, which it does NOT at all, for when it is read, it needs to be read in depth, and NOT only a verse here and there. I Believe you would agree that is a reasonable statement.

Ibrahim says; My friend, you do not seem to understand that, man are being tested on this planet as such, it was man who had been entrusted to keep the word INTACT, yet they chose to disobey His command, not the other way around. Trials are for man, not for God

This is Indeed the TRUTH, but what we are being Tested for is NOT to Keep The WORD of GOD intact, but to simply FOLLOW The ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD, which HE has KEPT INTACT THROUGHOUT ALL OF TIME.

This is What YOU claim is NOT the FACT, quoting the Quran to do so, saying it is The ONLY TRUE WORD of GOD, which was Written by a single man.

Seems to me, you are NOT heeding the Words of JESUS in Matthew which YOU Quoted, and have indeed been deceived.

I am NOT here to Convince you of anything, for You have come to Believe as You care to believe, for YOU are one being Tested by the Creator, and just as I shall be, so shall you stand before Him on Judgement day.

What I have said, is You MUST NOT TWIST The Bible, as You work to Convince people of the Quran as TRUTH, for then you are simply using Untruth, to try to share what you believe as TRUTH. That to me, does NOT seen a GODLY way to share The Message of GOD.

“Ibrahim says My friend, be direct, do not make accusations which you cannot put forward evidence for, now you can chose to disagree with me, for whatever reason, you may have but if you make allegations, I will demand for evidence and then you will have an embarrassing situation on your hands. So be a man, discuss the subject , do not try to abuse me by branding the poster, as per your whims and fancies.
quote:

My Hope is this is NOT the case with you, but time shall make it Clear to me, for I am Indeed a servant of The Creator.

Ibrahim says: that is good, so feel free to find out how good a servant you are!
Hope that helps and answers your questions. “

My Friend, I am as GOOD a servant as my LORD Leads me to Be, for I can NOT do a single thing for The GLORY of The Creator, that he does Not Guide me to Be.

Any Words I write here my friend, make no DOUBT they are NOT my own, but a simple Flowing for The LORD, so His GLORY can Be shown.

The very few words you have seen, is not even a Taste of what is to come, for every word I share with brother, shall be from the HOLY ONE.

Peace be with those who LOVE GOD.

Simplepen

sallu123 · June 5, 2002, 8:20am

Assalamo-alaikum (peace be upon u)!

Ibrahim has given a good explanation of everything. But I would like to add one point: God did not have to necessarily guard the authenticity of previous scriptures (Bible etc) because He was still sending prophets upon prophets to convey the pure message of God. But Muhammad (pbuh) is the last prophet of God, after him there is no new prophet, so from common sense it is clear that God would guard the final message (Quran) since no new prophet is due. Has history not vindicated the stand of the Muslims, has there been any person after Muhammad (pbuh) who has had an impact as great as this last messenger (pbuh)?

Simplepen, if it was God's will then no body would be able to sin, but He has given free will to every one, God has shown the right path through the messengers, it is up to us to decide whether to follow it, it is for us to decide whether to commit sins or refrain from them. God gave no guarantee to guard the previous scriptures from corruption, He made no such promises, whereas in the Quran, God says:

"Verily, it is We Who have revealed the Quran, and of a surety, We will guard it (from corruption)." (Surah al-Hijr 15:9)

As previously mentioned, thousands of people memorized the Quran upon its revelation, the Quran was recorded in writing as well at the time of revelation. Infact, every year in the month of Ramadhan, Muslims offer prayers in which the whole of the Quran is recited from memory by the prayer leader. Is it not astonishing that in every mosque and every Muslim home in the whole world the exact 100% same words are recited? Had there been any modification in the Quran then there would have been alot of different versions available today, yet there is not a difference of a letter!! Infact, if u go to museums you will see hundreds of years old Qurans with the exact same contents as today.

And truth stands out clear from falsehood.

Salman.

Ibrahim · June 5, 2002, 10:00am

[quote]
I am only asking YOU about what YOU put forward as FACT, for you have only place behind YOUR Opinion, a Twisted form of what is in The Bible. I have simply made CLEAR to you, that if you call yourself a servant of The TRUTH, then you MUST be TRUTHFUL in EVERYWAY, and NOT Mold what is Written, to your own interpretation, an then present it as FACT.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says Greetings of peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen, now again you are making allegations without evidence, ** that is a sin, ** so If you want others to accept that I am twisting the facts, show us that I have done that, don’t just say I did it, without showing the evidences , ** now I will not be repeating this again, since I assume you are an adult and should only be told once. **

[quote]
So you are saying TIME has Power over The Creator?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Kindly don’t twist anything to undermine the Creator, the Creator set the laws of nature and let everything work according to that laws not according to ours whims and fancies. Thus I had already presented sufficient verses for the corruption of the Bible from the Bible, now it seems you will not accept them but try to cast doubts on the Creator.

So I ask you again, do you want more proof that the current Bible is :-

a) corrupted

b) having missing books

c) have additions

d) have omissions

e) have been revised over and over again

Do you want me to give this evidence and if I did will accept them or not?

[quote]
That the Creator does NOT have the Ability to Perverve What was in The Beginning HIS WORD?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says again , you seem to argue against what is clearly mentioned in the Bible, so how does anyone discuss this, if you cannot accept what is written in the Bible, mind you I am using the Bible which you believe in , not another book.

[quote]
Indeed, if this is the case, then You and I do NOT share the same view of The power of The Creator of All Things, for you make The Creator the same as a mortal man.
[/quote]

Ibrahim say: s that would be your own error, because this has nothing to do with the power of God, but with the laws He set in motion and He was aware of, from the beginning.

[quote]
The Pentateuch is only The First Five Books of The Old Testament, of which there are thirty-nine total Books within the Collection.

[/quote]

Ibrahim says: The Chumash, Pentateuch or Five Books of Moses are called the torah! Is it not??? So why make it look as though I am wrong in my statements?

And btw there are only 36 books in the Jewish canon, not 39! Apparently you are a protestant, that is why you claim it has 39 and the Roman catholics will claim it has 47.
** The 36 books of the current Hebrew Bible, does not include the ten missing books which will make it to 46 in actual number **

** Missing books in the Jewish cannon. **

The book of Samuel The Seer – I Chronicle 29:29
The book of Jasher – Joshua 10:12-13
The book of Nathan The Prophet – I Chronicle 29:29
The book of the Wars of the Lord – Numbers 21:14-15
The book of Gad The Seer – I Chronicle 29:29
The book of Jenu The son of Hanani – II Chronicle 20:34
The Book of Sheraiah The Prophet – II Chronicle 12:15
The Prophecy of Enoch – Jude 1:14
The Prophecy of Ahijah The Shilonite – II Chronicle 9:29
The Vision of Iddo The Seer – II Chronicle 9:24

Ibrahim says: In addition to this problem, …………….

There are extra material, ** which was part of the ancient Greek translation of the Tanakh, (Jewish Bible)** but was never a part of the official Hebrew Tanakh. Jews regard this extra material as apocryphal. But some Christians add them into their Bible and others delete them form the bible…

Simplepen was the Holy spirit having problems or was man unaware of what is supposed to be the Bible and what is not???

Let me quote the Books of Apocrypha

1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Tobit
Judith
Additions to the Book of Esther
Wisdom of Solomon
Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach
Baruch
Letter of Jeremiah
Prayer of Azariah
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
Prayer of Manasseh
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
3 Maccabees
4 Maccabees
Psalm 151

Ibrahim says So you see simplepen, you are in error, even in the number of books the Jews have and you are in error concerning what other books that are claimed to be inspired by the first Christians.

** So who is lost here you or me??? Will you be able to accpt this TRUTH or will you deny it**

[quote]
There are FOUR Gospels, each written by a different man, with a different point of view and memories of JESUS as He walk upon The earth, and yet all FOUR Share the very SAME TRUTH. This Indeed to me, is a Collection Inspired by GOD, one I would say has Less of a Chance to be deceiving as The WORD of GOD.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: My friend, that takes a lot of blind faith, since none of these authors were the actual disciples of Christ and what happened to the Gospel that Christ used and preached ?? are you not asking God about it??

Kindly verify

The Gospel ** ACCORDING to Matthew **

(anonymous- Matthew was a Tax Collector or Publican regarded in the bible as ‘sinners’ serving Herod the ‘Tetrarch’ and the Roman Government,. ( Mtt.9:9, 10:3; Mk. 2:14 –17 ; Lk. 5:27-31)

The Gospel ** ACCORDING to Mark**

(anonymous – Mark was the interpreter of Peter (II Tim 4:11). Who dictates him to write down the ‘Tradition’ of Jesus, Therefore, the book should be of Peter’s Gospel. Moreover, Mark was not an apostle of Jesus. As a worker, he was only hired by Barnabas, Paul, and working with some others into different places. – Acts 15: 37-40; Colossian 4:10; II Tim. 4:11; Philimon 24 and I Peter 5:13).

The Gospel ** ACCORDING to Luke**

(anonymous – Luke 1:1).

The Gospel ** ACCORDING to John **

(anonymous - Jn. 21:24).

Ibrahim says; So my friend here you are arguing about who wrote the Qur’an when you blindly have come to believe that the 4 gospels are inspired despite the contradictions, additions, omissions found in them??

You are comfortable with this and u want others to believe this are the works of the Creator???

[quote]
I also can SEE, how this would be much easier for the Devil to Mislead a single man, who came AFTER Jesus, by appearing as an angel of Light one time, than all the men who have had to have been mislead to Corrupt as you have said has happened.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : such a claim, would be due to your blind faith and not based on facts, whereas I have presented the facts for you to verify above.

[quote]
Ibrahim wrote: Which is what we are witnessing today, even here in this forum, people lie or hide the truth because they feel it may offend others.

Simple man replied: This is indeed what I SEE in The words you have shared when you quote from The Bible held as the WORD of GOD by Christians.

[/quote]

Ibrahim says : ** I will not repeat this! So kindly Put forward the evidence for your allegations, IF indeed you are a honest credible person, worthy of respect! **

[quote]
It sure is Amazing, that The Creator of Things, repeatly chose men to serve HIM, who Failed, and Failed, and Failed, until The Writer of the Qu’ran.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: what!! do you not understand simple English?? I wrote that mankind who had been trusted with the book failed to keep it INTACT after it was entrusted to them by the prophets, NOT due to the Prophets/ messenger, for they fulfilled what was entrusted to them as God so willed.

[quote]
If GOD was a business man, He would have run his business into Bankrupt far sooner than so many life times upon this earth.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: don’t be silly, my friend we are talking about the Creator, no room for making silly comments. Try and read my post again

[quote]
Do you really ever THINK about what you have come to Believe, and WHY?
It seems to me, Who You believe as The Creator of ALL Things, is simply a Being, who can NOT get it right.
[/quote]

Ibrahim say: that is your words based on your inability to digest what I am saying , need help or do you intent to stay that way?

[quote]
I have my Friend, and The BIBLE is NOT a BOOK of Confusion, yet for a Master of Confusion, any words can be Twisted, as You have already done so from my Eyes to SEE.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; Now why aren’t you able to show the twisting for others to see???, are you lacking in wisdom or are you deceiving yourself and others by saying things without presenting the evidence for them???

[quote]
I do NOT argue nor Debate, The Bible with any man, for The WORD of GOD needs Not to be Debated.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: which means you are blind follower, who is hell bent on deceiving others , immaterial of the consequences. And only the devil will resort to such things man of truth will put forward the truth without fail when they see the Truth is being denied.

[quote]
[Freewill, is what we have been Given to FOLLOW The TRUTH of GOD, but we have NOT the FREEWIL to CHANGE what GOD has MADE HOLY. The WORD of GOD. [/quoite]

Ibrahim says: here the Bible is saying otherwise , so either accept what the Bible says or proclaim yourself above it!

[quote]
The issue is What is THE WORD of GOD.
You claim it is The Quran written many Years AFTER Jesus was sent is The ONLY TRUE PURE BOOK, written by a single man, and I say it is The COMPLETE COLLECTION of BOOKs written by Many men, both Before and After Jesus came. The BOOKS before speak of The Messiah to Come, and The Books after, speak of the Messiah who came, and shall come again. JESUS.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Firstly the same books reveals that the Final Prophet will come, so apparently you have failed to understand the message given by Christ even!

Second, the word of God, is not what you say or what I say, but what reveals the TRUTH, hence the Bible cannot be considered the word of God in its pristine quality , since it contains untruth, whereas the Qur’an is the Final word of God, since it ONLY contains nothing but truth.

So if you want to argue establish the facts not just your personal opinions, which are worthless in religious matters.

[quote]
I also want You to state the Bible in COMPLETE text and meaning, and NOT simply a word or verse here and there, for any MAN can do so, and claim it says something, which it does NOT at all, for when it is read, it needs to be read in depth, and NOT only a verse here and there. I Believe you would agree that is a reasonable statement.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says yes! All revelations has its own contexts, but most verses also have specific ( according to context) as well as general meanings, this is why the word of God is miracle of its own.

Now If you believe I am quoting out of context, kindly show evidence for it, at the same time the general meaning can also be used in scriptural teachings.

[quote]
This is Indeed the TRUTH, but what we are being Tested for is NOT to Keep The WORD of GOD intact, but to simply FOLLOW The ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD, which HE has KEPT INTACT THROUGHOUT ALL OF TIME.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : that would be wishful thinking as you seem to contradict the Bible by say this.

[quote]
This is What YOU claim is NOT the FACT, quoting the Quran to do so, saying it is The ONLY TRUE WORD of GOD, which was Written by a single man.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : what? When did I quote the Qur’an to expose the errors in the Bible? I give comparative verses for cross referencing but when I talk to a Christian, I use the Bible only, since that is what they believe in.

[quote]
What I have said, is You MUST NOT TWIST The Bible, as You work to Convince people of the Quran as TRUTH, for then you are simply using Untruth, to try to share what you believe as TRUTH. That to me, does NOT seen a GODLY way to share The Message of GOD.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: what I am saying is that you show PROOF ( have been repeating this again and gain, I hope it filters through to you ) that I have twisted the Bible, if you won’t than you stand condemned by your own fabrications and allegations.

Kindly Read!

Matthew 5: 37. Simply let your Yes' beYes,' and your No,'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Hope that helps

Regards
Ibrahim

** there is no such thing as failure , if you are always learning **

simplepen · June 5, 2002, 12:57pm

"Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen let me answer you by using the Bible

Kindly read:

Exodus 32:

Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides, front and back.
The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.
When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain.

Deuteronomy 12: 32. See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Ibrahim says hence God did not protect this earlier book as you want it to be , since man was informed that they should not add or omit from that message as given to Moses. (pbuh) .

Now let look at the final chapter of the Gospel

Revelations 22:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Ibrahim says : hence only a warning was given that man should not try to alter the given message in the past whereas the Final message because it is final message, will be protected from corruption because the Creator knows the end from the beginning."

Man did NOT, and Has NOT Changed what Moses held in his hands, which was Written by The Very Finger of GOD... The Ten Commandments

The Law brought to us by MOSES.

Jesus taught each of us... What is The Greatest Commandment of All:

Matthew 22:36-40

When asked this question: Teacher, which is the most important commanment in the Law of Moses.

"You must Love The LORD with all Your Heart, all you Soul, and all your Mind. This is The Greatest Commandment. A second commandment is Equally Important: Love Your neighbor as yourself. ALL other commanments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two Commandments"

Mark 12:28-34

One of the teachers of religious law was standing there listening to the discussion. He realized Jesus had anwered well before, so he asked,"Of all the Commandments, which is the most important?"

Jesus replied,"The Most Important commandment is this: 'Hear O Israel! The LORD our GOD is the One and Only LORD. And you must love The LORD Your GOD with All your Heart, all your Soul, and all Your Mind, and All your Strenght. The Second is equeally important:'Love Your neighbor as yourself. No other commandment is greater than these."

The Teacher of religious Law replied, "Well said Teacher. you have spoken The TRUTH by saying that there is only one GOD and no other. And I Know it important to Love my neighbors as myself. This is mORE important than to offer all the burnt offerings and sacrifices required by the Law."

Realizing this man's UNDERSTANDING, Jesus said to Him, "You are not far from The Kingdom of GOD!"

*Now let look at the final chapter of the Gospel *

**so sorry ibrahim, but this is NOT the last Chapter of the Gospel, but The last BOOK of The Bible. There are Only FOUR Gospels, from which The First TWO, I have quoted above in response to you last statement.

The BOOK of Relvelations Concerns Times yet to Come, and times which are happening in this world as we speak. The Times of The last days.**

Revelations 22:
18. I warn everyone who hears the words of*(the prophecy of this book)*: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Ibrahim says : hence only a warning was given that man should not try to alter the given message in the past whereas the Final message because it is final message, will be protected from corruption because the Creator knows the end from the beginning.

**Again so sorry ibrahim, but this BOOK is as I have said, and what is spoken in it, has also been spoken in the OT by Daniel.

Please, if you shall try to use my LORD's WORD aginst me, Please Speak of it as it TRULY is, for You can NOT twist a single letter, my LORD shall Let pass by me.

Please you MUST be able to do better than this my Friend.**

simplepen

Ibrahim · June 6, 2002, 12:10am

[quote]
Man did NOT, and Has NOT Changed what Moses held in his hands, which was Written by The Very Finger of GOD... The Ten Commandments
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen, that is your Belief, but apparently you are unaware of, or you will not like to admit that the Catholics will deny the ten commandments includes

20:4. ** "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything** in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

For their teachings /catechisms will say

** You shall not take the name of your Lord, your God in Vain **

so even here you seem to have problems, in Christianity, my friend, you should first learn to be more honest to yourself and admit the Christians have indeed changed the laws to suit their purpose and are in fact denying the laws as given by Moses and as confirmed by Christ.

[quote]
Jesus taught each of us... What is The Greatest Commandment of All:
Matthew 22:36-40

[/quote]

Ibrahim says Simplepen, that is how the Gospel writers summed up the laws that does not mean , the laws were reduced to TWO. Read the question again , the questioner wanted to know “which is the most important commandment” and Christ had given them the two most important, which today’s Christians claim are the only ones that need to be followed that would be their delusion as Christ

SNIPPED the contents containing:- ** simplepen trying to talk about the important commandments, which has nothing to do with this topic or discussion **

Ibrahim says: Firstly YOU HAVE SKILLFULLY tried to change the topic, ** which was about the revelations in the Bible being lost, adulterated or destroyed even when the Prophets were actually present amongst the people. Which I had proved for you by using the Bible , since YOU denied that God will not allow such thing to happen.**

[quote]
Ibrahim earlier: Now let look at the final chapter of the Gospel

Simplepen: so sorry ibrahim, but this is NOT the last Chapter of the Gospel, but The last BOOK of The Bible. There are Only FOUR Gospels, from which The First TWO, I have quoted above in response to you last statement.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Sure, that was the last chapter of the Bible and not Gospel, (minor typo) on my part.

[quote]
Simplepen: The BOOK of Relvelations Concerns Times yet to Come, and times which are happening in this world as we speak. The Times of The last days.

Revelations 22:

I warn everyone who hears the words of(the prophecy of this book): If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Ibrahim says :** hence only a warning was given that man should not try to alter the given message in the past whereas the Final message because it is final message, will be protected from corruption because the Creator knows the end from the beginning. **

Simplepen:- Again so sorry ibrahim, but this BOOK is as I have said, and what is spoken in it, has also been spoken in the OT by Daniel. Please, if you shall try to use my LORD's WORD aginst me, Please Speak of it as it TRULY is, for You can NOT twist a single letter, my LORD shall Let pass by me.
Please you MUST be able to do better than this my Friend.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : I feel sorry for you and I THINK, you must be mistaken or wish to fool others, , because prior to quoting from the book of Revelations, I already quoted
** Deuteronomy 12: 32. See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it. **

yet we find Jeremiah professing that ,** I quote again, SINCE, YOU HAVE managed to SNIP them of, to suit your purpose. **

[quote]
Jeremiah 8: 8. "`How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," ** when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? **

Jeremiah 23: 26. How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, ** who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? **

Jeremiah 36: 23. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, ** until the entire scroll was burned in the fire. **

Ibrahim says: So even though God corrected the works, men still destroyed them and were written again and were corrupted again till Christ it was still the same.
now let look at these statements found in

John

21: 24. ** This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true. **

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that** even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. **

Ibrahim says: ** who is this disciple? And why would the words of Christ be more than the whole world, when today we do not even have sufficient words to fit into one full page of a single news paper page, that can be attributed as the actual words of Christ ? **

If you still do not believe the Bible has been corrupted read

Luke 1

** Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, **
just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
Therefore, ** since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you,** most excellent Theophilus,
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: ** So my point STANDS and your argument and allegation, does not STAND, I hope you will do better and be more honest in your response, snipping out contents to suit argument is not worthy of those engaged in religious discussions. **
Most of all, you have not placed an argument to refute the fact that

1) God’s Revelations were altered by man in the past whilst the Prophets were still present amongst them as written in the Bible

2) God’s revelations were not guarded by God , in the past, because man were only warned against it, But they stilled went ahead and altered it. Which was the reason for its abrogation.

Ibrahim says: ** Now if you are capable enough to make your assertion STAND, please do so, but try not trickery or slander, it does not work with me.**

Hope that helps

Regards
Ibrahim

** you can have your say, but not always your way **

simplepen · June 6, 2002, 5:23pm

Man did NOT, and Has NOT Changed what Moses held in his hands, which was Written by The Very Finger of GOD... The Ten Commandments

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all
Dear Simplepen, that is your Belief, but apparently you are unaware of, or you will not like to admit that the Catholics will deny the ten commandments includes
20:4. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
For their teachings /catechisms will say
You shall not take the name of your Lord, your God in Vain
so even here you seem to have problems, in Christianity, my friend, you should first learn to be more honest to yourself and admit the Christians have indeed changed the laws to suit their purpose and are in fact denying the laws as given by Moses and as confirmed by Christ.

** Again I say, USE The WORD of GOD, and NOT The Teachings of Man. For example THE CATHOLIC FAITH, for it is no Different then THE ISLAM FAITH, for BOTH Claim to be The Final Authority of The WILL of GOD, yet they are simply common man.

Neither of which Gives GLORY and HONOR for The CREATOR of ALL.

SPEAK of THE BIBLE, and perhaps we can Discuss, for what I have made CLEAR to you, is What for GOD you MUST.**

Jesus taught each of us... What is The Greatest Commandment of All:
Matthew 22:36-40

Ibrahim says Simplepen, that is how the Gospel writers summed up the laws that does not mean , the laws were reduced to TWO. Read the question again , the questioner wanted to know “which is the most important commandment” and Christ had given them the two most important, which today’s Christians claim are the only ones that need to be followed that would be their delusion as Christ
SNIPPED the contents containing:- simplepen trying to talk about the important commandments, which has nothing to do with this topic or discussion

Ibrahim says: Firstly YOU HAVE SKILLFULLY tried to change the topic, which was about the revelations in the Bible being lost, adulterated or destroyed even when the Prophets were actually present amongst the people. Which I had proved for you by using the Bible , since YOU denied that God will not allow such thing to happen.

**so sorry Ibrahim, but it was YOU who claimed Moses changed what GOD had written with HIS Finger, not I, to give example, and I merely Pointed out, that The LAW of GOD has ALWAYS BEEN, and shall Always BE, yet you nor I shall ALWAYS KEEP, for we are ALL SINNERS, and fall SHORT of who GOD wants us to Be.

For He who keeps the Whole of the LAW, and fails with a single letter, Falls short of the entire LAW.

This IS The TOPIC, and it is only YOU who tries to sway.

Ibrahim earlier: Now let look at the final chapter of the Gospel
Simplepen: so sorry ibrahim, but this is NOT the last Chapter of the Gospel, but The last BOOK of The Bible. There are Only FOUR Gospels, from which The First TWO, I have quoted above in response to you last statement.

Ibrahim says: Sure, that was the last chapter of the Bible and not Gospel, (minor typo) on my part.
quote:

Simplepen: The BOOK of Relvelations Concerns Times yet to Come, and times which are happening in this world as we speak. The Times of The last days.
Revelations 22:
18. I warn everyone who hears the words of(the prophecy of this book): If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Ibrahim says : hence only a warning was given that man should not try to alter the given message in the past whereas the Final message because it is final message, will be protected from corruption because the Creator knows the end from the beginning.
Simplepen:- Again so sorry ibrahim, but this BOOK is as I have said, and what is spoken in it, has also been spoken in the OT by Daniel. Please, if you shall try to use my LORD's WORD aginst me, Please Speak of it as it TRULY is, for You can NOT twist a single letter, my LORD shall Let pass by me.
Please you MUST be able to do better than this my Friend.

Ibrahim says : I feel sorry for you and I THINK, you must be mistaken or wish to fool others, , because prior to quoting from the book of Revelations, I already quoted
Deuteronomy 12: 32. See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

yet we find Jeremiah professing that , I quote again, SINCE, YOU HAVE managed to SNIP them of, to suit your purpose.

Simplepen says:
**So sorry Ibrahim but this is THE TRUTH you have shared above, and Only one reason I Have for This being
EXACTLY why I BELIEVE your Quran which you have already admitted is a book written by a single man, is also a book GOD has NOT allowed within The Collection of HIS HOLY BOOKS, The BIBLE, The Book of The Creator.

It is Your book, which speaks of many in The Bible as TRUE, yet delivers a completely DIFFERENT Message, and it is stands on it’s own, while dismissing what other TRUTH of The BIBLE to suit it’s Purpose. In this Way Misleading those upon this EARTH, who are being TESTED by The CREATOR, and shall Stand Before HIM on The Day of Judgement, without any EXCUSE.

So Indeed my Friend, who is The One who shall be Guilty of Twisting The WORD of GOD, as GOD has KEPT TOGETHER THROUGHOUT TIME!!!!!

Your Quran has been for only less than 1500 years, and The Testament of Jesus for far longer, and The Entire Bible, which you so cleverly dismiss as corrupt, since it’s Beginning.

May The LORD have Mercy on Your Soul Ibrahim, for as sure as I am typing these Letters, You shall Come to KNOW The TRUTH as it is and always shall BE… JESUS CHRIST The SON of The FATHER, and The SAVIOR of ALL who BELIEVE.**

Jeremiah 8: 8. "`How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
Jeremiah 23: 26. How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Jeremiah 36: 23. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, until the entire scroll was burned in the fire.
Ibrahim says: So even though God corrected the works, men still destroyed them and were written again and were corrupted again till Christ it was still the same.
now let look at these statements found in
John
21: 24. This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25. Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
Ibrahim says: who is this disciple? And why would the words of Christ be more than the whole world, when today we do not even have sufficient words to fit into one full page of a single news paper page, that can be attributed as the actual words of Christ ?
If you still do not believe the Bible has been corrupted read
Luke 1
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,

Those who has EARS, Let them HEAR.
Those who have EYES, Let them SEE.

For The TRUTH is CLEAR, for Those who LONG for The CREATOR to STEER.

Simplepen

[This message has been edited by simplepen (edited June 06, 2002).]

Ibrahim · June 6, 2002, 9:37pm

quote] Simplepen: Again I say, USE The WORD of GOD, and NOT The Teachings of Man.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Simplepen,

are you doing this??? I mean are you following God’s words or the words written by unknown authors?? . Because I have shown CLEARLY, that you have taken books written by unknown men , which are corrupted / altered and misleading. And you claim it is God’s words. ** I see nothing from you to refute my claim accept your words, which is worthless, when we get to the crux of the matter. **

[quote]
For example THE CATHOLIC FAITH, for it is no Different then THE ISLAM FAITH, for BOTH Claim to be The Final Authority of The WILL of GOD, yet they are simply common man.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: another worthless statements coming from a worthless person , because he talks without putting forward the evidence.

[quote]
Neither of which Gives GLORY and HONOR for The CREATOR of ALL.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Now you are talking nonsense, I hope you will be able to do better, since the Catholics were the ones who started Christianity, even before the protestants ended up calling them heretics based on the same invented dogma and corrupted books.

[quote]
SPEAK of THE BIBLE, and perhaps we can Discuss, for what I have made CLEAR to you, is What for GOD you MUST.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Apparently you have no desire to understand what I have given you so far. I asked you, do you want evidences for, I quote again, since you have skipped them out of FEAR.

[quote]
So I ask you again, do you want more proof that the current Bible is :-
**

a) corrupted

b) having missing books

c) have additions

d) have omissions

e) have been revised over and over again

Do you want me to give this evidence and if I did will accept them or not?**
[/quote]

[quote]
so sorry Ibrahim, but it was YOU who claimed Moses changed what GOD had written with HIS Finger, not I,
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: hmmm, Is it possible, you do not understand English too?? , because I did not make such a statement, so kindly show me where, I told anyone that Moses changed the commandments???

Second, my response to you concerning Moses** was with regards to your claim that God protected the Bible, which I refuted by showing you that what God revealed got destroyed even when the Prophets were present amongst the people in the past. **
Now, I assume, you will try and proof that the Bible is INTACT and had not been altered, instead you run off, making comments which has nothing to do with your stand. ( If the Qur’an is protected than the Bible is also protected)

[quote]
to give example, and I merely Pointed out, that The LAW of GOD has ALWAYS BEEN, and shall Always BE, yet you nor I shall ALWAYS KEEP, for we are ALL SINNERS, and fall SHORT of who GOD wants us to Be.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : which is False because the First Christians have gone against the commandments , just like you , who ended up believing that Christ reduced them to two, whilst you feast yourself with what had been forbidden and claim that had been abrogated by Christ.

[quote]
For He who keeps the Whole of the LAW, and fails with a single letter, Falls short of the entire LAW.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: that is silly because the Bible says otherwise.

Before you strt rambling let me advice you........

Malachi 2:7. "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, and from his mouth men should seek instruction--because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty.

** But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi," says the LORD Almighty. **
"So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, ** because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law."**

[quote]
** This IS The TOPIC,** and it is only YOU who tries to sway.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Hello simplepen, and your earlier claim was about, let me quote you…, since today it is about something else.

[quote]

1) ** Simplepen posted June 04, 2002 05:46 PM**

** How can He Be The Creator and All Powerful, if His enemy can so easily corrupt what began as The WORD of GOD. ** For what I have understood as what you have shared, is that these books you mentioned WERE The WORD of GOD, ** but That in Time they have Become Corrupted. Is this Not what you have shared?**

2) ** simplepen posted June 04, 2002 06:04 PM**

and anything in the Bible which CLEARLY exposes mistakes such as this single one I have just shared, is dismissed as Corruption of what was once The WORD of GOD.** In Fact by saying this, you are saying GOD, Our Creator, is NOT able to Keep HIS WORD PURE.

3) ** simplepen posted June 04, 2002 08:07 PM **

So then my Brother, you believe GOD can Keep The Qu'ran PURE, ** and yet was unable to keep The BIBLE PURE.**

**
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: So now you say the topic is about “For He who keeps the Whole of the LAW, and fails with a single letter, Falls short of the entire LAW.”

** If that was the case, who wrote the above questions and arguments???**

** SNIPPED YOUR RAMBLING,** which is not related to the current topic

Simplepen I feel Sorry for you, I think you have major problems, in your ability to comprehend **

1) don’t get emotional If you honestly want to know the TRUTH,

2) discuss the issue with evidence not what ever that comes into your mind.

3) Stop making allegations and FACE the facts, running away is not going to help.

4) And stop reposting what I said without any answers for them.**

Now be a good Christian and address the questions I raised, not make allegations and accusations without evidence.

Matthew 12: 34. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, ** and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. **
** But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. **
** For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."**

Hope that helps

Regards
Ibrahim

** Your reputation is not raised by lowering others **

simplepen · June 6, 2002, 11:47pm

quote] Simplepen: Again I say, USE The WORD of GOD, and NOT The Teachings of Man.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : Greetings of Peace to one and all
“Dear Simplepen,
are you doing this??? I mean are you following God’s words or the words written by unknown authors?? . Because I have shown CLEARLY, that you have taken books written by unknown men , which are corrupted / altered and misleading. And you claim it is God’s words. I see nothing from you to refute my claim accept your words, which is worthless, when we get to the crux of the matter.”
quote:So sorry ibrahim, but I hear you say one thing from one side of your mouth, and then another from the other side of your mouth. Answer this Please, so confusion may end.
Do you agree, The Bible speaks at least SOME TRUTH, since it began as The WORD of GOD, or is it The WORD of GOD, Completely VOIDED, and therefore due to corruption NOT VALID.

For example THE CATHOLIC FAITH, for it is no Different then THE ISLAM FAITH, for BOTH Claim to be The Final Authority of The WILL of GOD, yet they are simply common man.

Ibrahim says: another worthless statements coming from a worthless person , because he talks without putting forward the evidence.
YOU are The ONLY one here Trying to PROVE something, using THE BIBLE in a Worthless Manner, for you do NOT Present it in Complete TRUTH, stating it is Corrupted, so YOU can snip a piece here and a piece there, doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

Neither of which Gives GLORY and HONOR for The CREATOR of ALL.

Ibrahim says: Now you are talking nonsense, I hope you will be able to do better, since the Catholics were the ones who started Christianity, even before the protestants ended up calling them heretics based on the same invented dogma and corrupted books.
** So sorry Ibrahim, since it is YOU who appears to NOT KNOW, but is Was JESUS who Began Christianity, and NOT some Church House Faith. Christianity is NOT a Faith of some Church House, nor is it of a single man, BUT it is made of The Followers of The Savior of The World, if only they Believe by FAITH.
THE OLD Testament, The WORD of GOD, Written by MANY men Lead by GOD speaks of a Savior to Come.
The NEW Testament, The WORD of GOD, Also Written by MANY men Lead by GOD Further testify for JESUS The SAVIOR, Using The OLD TESTAMENT.
BOTH are BOUND TOGETHER as ONE BOOK…The WORD of GOD, The CREATOR of ALL.
It’s Message… Jesus Christ The SON of GOD Came and Walked as Man, was Rejected by The People He was sent to, and Put to Death, in order to Pay The Wages of SIN, so that Each of us can Live with The CREATOR in fulfillment of The LAW of GOD.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5
11And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The Qu’ran, what YOU Believe to be The Thoughts of GOD, written by a single man, who Claimed to be Lead by GOD, using parts of the OT, and NT as TRUTH, yet dismissing as Corrupt, that which CLEARLY does NOT Agree.
It’s Message… GOD has NO SON, and did NOT Die on The CROSS for The SINS of Mankind. You need only to Pray Five times a day, follow the LAW, ect, ect, ect. But Do NOT Accept as TRUTH, what is Held as TRUTH by The Jewish, and Christians.
Hmmmmm. It seem to me Friend, it is NOT I, but YOU who has Failed to THINK with Common Sense, and have Blindly accepted what has been taught as TRUTH without Question.
You have chosen to Be a Follower of a single man of Earth, who indeed did write the words within The Qu’ran. HE Claimed it to Be The word of GOD, and so you have Accepted this what he has profess as TRUTH, and on That DAY Yet to COME for ALL, You shall so Be Judged, for The TESTING Period shall have come to an END.
Again so sorry Ibrahim, but I shall NOT engage in Fruitless debate about whether or Not The BIBLE is TRUTH, for I KNOW The TRUTH. I KNOW who I FOLLOW, just as YOU KNOW who Follow, although You do NOT Realize you follow The False Prophet The World was warned would come, appearing as an angel of LIGHT.**
Revelation 16
12Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great Euphrates River, and it dried up so that the kings from the east could march their armies westward without hindrance. 13And I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs leap from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and** the false prophet**. 14These miracle-working demons caused all the rulers of the world to gather for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God Almighty.

19Then I saw the beast gathering the kings of the earth and their armies in order to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army. 20And the beast was captured, and with him** the false prophet who did mighty miracles** on behalf of the beast--miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. 21Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came out of the mouth of the one riding the white horse. And all the vultures of the sky gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

SPEAK of THE BIBLE, and perhaps we can Discuss, for what I have made CLEAR to you, is What for GOD you MUST.

so sorry Ibrahim, but it was YOU who claimed Moses changed what GOD had written with HIS Finger, not I,

Ibrahim says: hmmm, Is it possible, you do not understand English too?? , because I did not make such a statement, so kindly show me where, I told anyone that Moses changed the commandments???

** What you shared, was The FACT that the stone tablets GOD had written upon with HIS Finger, were Broken to pieces, yet I pointed out to YOU, even to this very Day, what was written upon Stone, carried down by Moses, is STILL Present in The WORD of GOD that you claim is corrupted. **

Second, my response to you concerning Moses was with regards to your claim that God protected the Bible, which I refuted by showing you that what God revealed got destroyed even when the Prophets were present amongst the people in the past.
Now, I assume, you will try and proof that the Bible is INTACT and had not been altered, instead you run off, making comments which has nothing to do with your stand. ( If the Qur’an is protected than the Bible is also protected)
do not assume what I shall do, for You Are NOT GOD my friend, and I am LEAD ONLY by HIM. Remember… When You Assume, You make an ASS out of U by trying to do so to ME. ASS U ME. As The LORD’s servant, I do NOT Need to PROVE what I already KNOW to Be TRUTH.

to give example, and I merely Pointed out, that The LAW of GOD has ALWAYS BEEN, and shall Always BE, yet you nor I shall ALWAYS KEEP, for we are ALL SINNERS, and fall SHORT of who GOD wants us to Be.

Ibrahim says : which is False because the First Christians have gone against the commandments , just like you , who ended up believing that Christ reduced them to two, whilst you feast yourself with what had been forbidden and claim that had been abrogated by Christ.
** So sorry Ibrahim for your LACK of UNDERSTANDING, for what was Said, was if You Follow These two Commandment, all OTHERS shall be Kept as Well. If you fail at keeping any other, then you have Failed in Keeping these TWO
For example, If I Rape you, I am NOT LOVING YOU am I. If I BEAT You with a Stick, am I Loving you? If I Smash in Your Head with Club, and you fall DEAD, is that LOVE?
Can You Understand NOW my Friend?
Also, I take it you believe you are without SIN, since you say I Speak FALSE when I CLEARLY state ALL have SIN and Fall SHORT of The GLORY of GOD.
Romans 3
23For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard
Galatians 3
22But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to believe in Jesus Christ.
**

For He who keeps the Whole of the LAW, and fails with a single letter, Falls short of the entire LAW.

Ibrahim says: that is silly because the Bible says otherwise.
** So sorry Ibrahim but you do NOT Know he BIBLE as Well as You Believe in Your simple Wisdom of man.

This was written by The Brother of Jesus Christ Himself:
James 2
10And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.

This was written by the Apostle PAUL, whom you Claim is a FALSE Apostle, so I ask you, is The Brother of JESUS False as well?
Roman 7:6
But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.

Isaiah 64
6We are all infected and impure with sin. When we proudly display our righteous deeds, we find they are but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall. And our sins, like the wind, sweep us away.

Proverbs 14
12There is a path before each person that seems right, but it ends in death.

John 3
18"There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. **

Before you start rambling let me advice you........
Malachi 2:7. "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, and from his mouth men should seek instruction--because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty.

But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi," says the LORD Almighty.
"So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law."
** Indeed Ibrahim it would be wise, for you to follow your own advice in this matter, for Your Very Soul depends upon it. **

This IS The TOPIC, and it is only YOU who tries to sway.

Ibrahim says: Hello simplepen, and your earlier claim was about, let me quote you…, since today it is about something else.
quote:

1) Simplepen posted June 04, 2002 05:46 PM
How can He Be The Creator and All Powerful, if His enemy can so easily corrupt what began as The WORD of GOD. For what I have understood as what you have shared, is that these books you mentioned WERE The WORD of GOD, but That in Time they have Become Corrupted. Is this Not what you have shared?
2) simplepen posted June 04, 2002 06:04 PM
and anything in the Bible which CLEARLY exposes mistakes such as this single one I have just shared, is dismissed as Corruption of what was once The WORD of GOD. In Fact by saying this, you are saying GOD, Our Creator, is NOT able to Keep HIS WORD PURE.
3) ** simplepen posted June 04, 2002 08:07 PM
So then my Brother, you believe GOD can Keep The Qu'ran PURE, and yet was unable to keep The BIBLE PURE.

**

Ibrahim says: So now you say the topic is about “For He who keeps the Whole of the LAW, and fails with a single letter, Falls short of the entire LAW.”
If that was the case, who wrote the above questions and arguments???

** I simplepen have already addressed this within this very post.**

SNIPPED YOUR RAMBLING, which is not related to the current topic

Simplepen I feel Sorry for you, I think you have major problems, in your ability to comprehend
1) don’t get emotional If you honestly want to know the TRUTH,
2) discuss the issue with evidence not what ever that comes into your mind.
3) Stop making allegations and FACE the facts, running away is not going to help.
4) And stop reposting what I said without any answers for them.
Now be a good Christian and address the questions I raised, not make allegations and accusations without evidence.
Matthew 12: 34. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Hope that helps
Regards
Ibrahim
Your reputation is not raised by lowering others

** it is NOT I who has replied Friend, but The Spirit of GOD within by The WORDS He chooses to SEND.
It is YOU who are being Given another chance by The CREATOR to LISTEN, and Come to REALIZE JESUS CRIST is THE ONLY WAY to Be with GOD FOREVER, for no matter how Good you Believe yourself to be, You HAVE SINNED, and Fallen Short, and On That Day you Shall SEE.

Hebrews 9
27And just as it is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment,

Revelation 20
12I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to the things written in the books, according to what they had done.

Ephesians 2
8God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Acts 4
12There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven for people to call on to save them."

Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
**

Those who Have EYES and can READ, Let them UNDERSTAND!!!

simply a servant of The Creator of ALL.

Simplepen

Ibrahim · June 7, 2002, 3:55am

[quote]
Originally posted by simplepen: SNIPPED
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear simplepen, will you ever learn to stay on one topic or you wish to jump from one tree to another ?

Now before you try to muddy the waters and escape from your dilemma

The question I put to you, ** which you again snipped as if it was not addressed to you or that was not the main topic, ** was

[quote]
So I ask you again, do you want more proof that the current Bible is :-

** a) corrupted

b) having missing books

c) have additions

d) have omissions

e) have been revised over and over again

Do you want me to give this evidence and if I did will accept them or not?**
[/quote]

Now kindly answer me, before you run off in directions that are pleasing to you .

Now I notice new topics and unrelated questions, if like me to address them, kindly open new thread, don’t muddy this thread with your rambling

Regards
Ibrahim

** the afternoon knows what the morning never suspected **

simplepen · June 7, 2002, 5:04am

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by simplepen: SNIPPED
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear simplepen, will you ever learn to stay on one topic or you wish to jump from one tree to another ?

Now before you try to muddy the waters and escape from your dilemma

The question I put to you, ** which you again snipped as if it was not addressed to you or that was not the main topic, ** was

[quote]
So I ask you again, do you want more proof that the current Bible is :-

** a) corrupted

b) having missing books

c) have additions

d) have omissions

e) have been revised over and over again

Do you want me to give this evidence and if I did will accept them or not?**
[/quote]

Now kindly answer me, before you run off in directions that are pleasing to you .

Now I notice new topics and unrelated questions, if like me to address them, kindly open new thread, don’t muddy this thread with your rambling

Regards
Ibrahim

**It is YOU who have failed to Listen
for The Answer I have Already Given.
You seem to Be the one Avoiding The TRUTH,
by side stepping what You Fear is The HOLY ROOT.
You Claim to be able to PROVE my BOOK Corrupt,
Yet Fail to Convince me any, much Less enough.

I ask You Then... Wise man you claim to Be..
Explain in COMPLETE TRUTH
The very Few Verses
I have shared DIRECTLY with YOU.
From BOTH The OLD Testament,
as well as The NEW,
BOTH Being The Bible of GOD,
as I Have BOLDLY Shared as TRUE!

For the simple FACT is,
I could do The very SAME
with EVERY Verse You Provide
from Your QU'RAN as you name.

But That is NOT The POINT,
of my SERVICE To The LORD.
The Creator of What is RIGHT,
The Spreading of HIS WORD.

THE WORD of GOD, my Bible,
does NOT Need me to Defend,
for It IS The ONLY TRUTH,
who is My Very BEST FRIEND.

Attack it as You Feel.
Whip it with Your sticks.
Curse it with all your Heart.
The LOVE within is REAL,
Evil is Not The MIX,
as It has Always Been,
since It's very Start.

You are simply LOST,
wandering about,
Longing to Please The Creator,
for You Know what Life's About.

Please Open Your Eyes my Friend,
for soon shall come The END,
no Longer shall you Be given,
another chance to Repent.
This Message to You He Sends,
Think of JESUS as Your FRIEND.
KNOW without HIM,
with GOD...
You shall NEVER Dance.

The music is still Playing,
can you hear the Song Clear?
Time is Running Out Child,
for Your Soul you should Fear.

Forget what man has Taught You.
Remember Only Your HEART.
Ask The Creator Yourself.
IS JESUS The ONLY START?

If You Truly Seek Wisdom.
If You Truly Seek JOY.
Ask GOD Our Creator.
Was The Savior Once a Boy?

If Your Heart is Open.
If You truly Care.
Ask GOD as I have Told You.
Ask HIM, it you Believe He is There.

Salvation is NOT about Religion.
Salvation is NOT about LAW.
Salvation is simply a GIFT,
From GOD to ONE and ALL.

The Price has Already Been Paid.
Your Spirit Already Redeemed.
You Need Only Ask for Jesus,
and in Your Heart, Believe.

Peace is REAL within me,
I Pray it shall come to YOU,
for no matter the peace you see,
it is only Hell on earth,
compared to The PEACE in me...
Jesus Christ The LORD, The SON of GOD, The LIVING WORD.
**

simply a servant of Christ Cucified.
simplepen

[This message has been edited by simplepen (edited June 07, 2002).]

Ibrahim · June 7, 2002, 5:29am

[quote]
So Sorry Ibrahim, but it is YOU who have failed to Listen for The Answer I have Already Given.

[/quote]

Ibrahim says: dear simplepen, it seem you cannot understand simple things, so tell me where have you given me answers for this

[quote]
So I ask you again, do you want more proof that the current Bible is :-

a) corrupted

b) having missing books

c) have additions

d) have omissions

e) have been revised over and over again

Do you want me to give this evidence and if I did will accept them or not?
[/quote]

AND STOP SINGING TO ME, I only want simple answers, if you have new questions open new thread and by the Grace of God, I will respond to you. BUT in this thread settle the first issue first before jumping from tree to tree.

[quote]
I ask You Then... Prove Incorrect The very Few Verses I have shared DIRECTLY with YOU, from BOTH The OLD Testament, as well as The NEW, BOTH Being The Bible of GOD, as I Have BOLDLY Shared as TRUE!
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: after you have settled the first issue, if you are in a hurry, try opening new thread for them because, I get the feeling you wish to hide the current discussion and you are desperate in trying to avoid it.

** And please for Gods sake stop rambling and singing . **

Regards
Ibrahim

[quote]
the afternoon knows what the morning never suspected
[/quote]

simplepen · June 7, 2002, 5:50am

Sing a Song of LOVE.
Sing a Song of PEACE.
I Sing of The ONE Above,
It's YOUR Heart He Longs to Reach.

You think you KNOW HIM.
You Think You Know The WAY.
He is asking you, a man of SIN.
Do You WANT LIFE This DAY?

I am only a messenger,
of The Only LOVE of GOD.
A GIFT He Holds in His HANDS.
A GIFT for YOU from GOD.

I can NOT Force you to Take it.
Nor does He want you that way.
He simply is asking Your Heart.
Accept JESUS, as The WAY.

It sadden my heart to KNOW.
You are BLIND to SEE.
How very MUCH JESUS LOVES YOU.
If You only Knew what He has done for me.

I am but a Sheep, and He is my Shepherd.
I pray you stay NOT a GOAT,
for before The KINGDOM, They are Leopard.

My Song for You is Over,
for it is CLEAR you have DEAF EARS.
I Pray you Hold NOT a Clover,
for Man's Teaching, shall Lead You to Tears.

Simply a servant of The ONLY WAY...Jesus Christ the LORD, and SON of GOD The Creator.

simplepen

Sentinel · June 7, 2002, 12:13pm

Those of you who think this is a shor sharaba thread, allow me to remind you that the singing goes on in the other forum.

As for sticking to the topic, then i urge the participants of this discussion to do exactly that. If there are any inclinations not related to this ship, then i suggest you aboard a new one instead of attempting to turn the sails on this.

Sentinel.

wonderingandwaiting · June 7, 2002, 10:06pm

Well well well, this seems to be the thread for me, because I came here wishing to learn about Islam and I have been reading the bible. I want to know the truth, and I would really appreciate both views on this. As I have been taught the bible says Jesus is the only way to the Father, what does the Quran say aboout this, if you do not mind letting me know. I want to know both views before I make a decision on what to believe.