India has more things uncommon with Pakistan then common.
and Pakistan should never be a part of India. Hell no. This talk about
NWFP and Balochistan being seperate from Punjab and Sindh is b.s.
Balochistan has a very good complaint that it's been neglected(it's our corrupt leaders). The other fighting
going on in pakistan is due to religious philosophy, which now in NWFP and Southern Punjab.
Look at the integration of Karachi. Baloch, Pashtun, Sindhi, Memon, Mohajir, Punjabi etc all live together.
This is stupid nonsense of integrating with India. India has a great economy but still overall is a much
more poor country then Pakistan. Throughout history, Pakistan has mostly been ruled by muslims.
Pakistan's problem is it's elite class and the leadership Pakistan has been worst in the world. Same leaders
we have seen since 25years. I remember Imran Khan saying that a Swiss dude wrote a book in the 70's and said that Pakistan was going to be Killa California of Asia.
I am reading works by Dr. N.S. Rajaram, an Indian thinker and Historian. He makes some striking points that have forced me to think about the very nature of Pakistan.
We have a 4 province unit, with 2 of those provinces divorced from the other 2 by factors of history, language, race, culture and development. Sind and Punjab are historically part of Indian civilization, they, like India, were ruled directly by the British, whilst the other 2 provinces formed the wild frontier of the subc. Furthermore, Balochistan and NWFP represent Iranic peoples who are in part, or alot, uncomfortable with being part of Pakistan.
His notion that a state bounded by Islam died when Bangladesh broke away is, sadly, 100% accurate. That notion of Islam led brotherhood is dead. The provinces of Sind and Punjab, bastions of civilization and with legacy of great empires and tradition, risk being over run by essentially wild hordesmen from the wild North.
Are Punjab, and Sind to a lesser degree, parts of historic India tacked on to the wild fringes of the lands of the Iranic tribes of central Asia? Does our survival rest in re-union with India, or some complete break from the culturally and historically alien tribes to our north?
Author is Another indian who doesn't have ability to think beyond race.
I wonder how many time these authors have travelled through pakistan???
Every single south-indian consider sardar a foreign race.
As an economic model EU is a miracle. The South Americans are copying it full speed (Research SA Union). We South Asians will be felt behind if we too do not cooperate between ourselves.
lbg bro! Your heart is in the right place. Unfortunately it looks like you haven't thought through these ideas and have not done any kind of homework.
EU miracle is based on a few important things that evolved in 50+ post-WWII years.
US sponsored (and paid for) military umbrella known as NATO
Strong desire of East European people to join the West
A strong and stable European economic powerhouse like Germany closely followed by industrial and economic titans like France, UK, and Italy. These four countries' combined annual spending is roughly $ 5-6 trillions on a combined population that is slightly more than Pakistan's (roughly 250 million).
Lack of territorial claims by the four top European powers on each other's borders.
In case of South Asia we do not have a tradition of NATO like alliance. In fact Indians would love to join NATO while Pakistanis would hate to do that.
In case of South Asia, Pakistani people do not share a strong pro-West approach with Indians.
In case of South Asia, India is no economic powerhouse like Germany. Heck India has at least 12 states where famine and disease is on par with sub-Saharan Africa.
South Asia's combined annual spending is roughly $225 billions on a combined population of 1.5 billion people. That shows only one thing. South Asia is inhabited by fuqara and masakeen (poverty stricken people). fuqara cannot contribute much to each other except hunger.
In case of South Asia, there are deeply dividing claims and territorial disputes.
lbg bro! pay special attention to #3. If India is no economic power, then it cannot offer anything to Pakistan or BDesh. In fact the only thing it can do is to destroy the local industry of Pakistan and BDesh by flooding it with cheaper goods.
Sure Pakistan and India should live peacefully. But it cannot happen. Look Indians have stopped Chenab waters when Pakistan is facing the worst possible economic and law & order situation.
Remember a friend do not poke his sick friend, only an enemy would do that.
I am deeply familiar with the history of NATO. The Presidency of Harry Truman was the focal point of a major research project of mine. The point is not that India is Germany and its glow can enlighten the region...it is poverty stricken worse then any state in Asia. 1/3 live on under $1 a day.
The point is this:
By cooperation and peaceful co-existence, we can all benefit. There is no currency in conflict, or vendetta. There is only progress in peace.
How is it possible in a combined sub continent Indian majority will ever recognise a minority and play fair? when we see Muslims and christians living a second class life in India everyday and are behind in every walk of life in jobs, education, business and economy their respresntation is not true reflection of population at all.
That is very funny actually. Could you please tell me the percentage of christians in Pakistan? and then the percentage of Sweepers in Pakistan who are christians?
He's dead wrong. Pakistan's greatest strength is in its diversity, and varied cultural background. The country has everything from desert to lush forest, all kinds of mineral, valuable land, a varied group of people which can be your ticket of diplomacy to all neighboring groups - whether it be India, or Afghanistan or Iran. Instead, we listen to rhetoric by revered "historians" who might be surving a destructive purpose to the ideology of Pakistan's formation, and naturally, Pakistanis being the pessimistic and drama-seeking people that we are, take something that could have been positive and reduce it to all the negatives. Wonderful thing is that we don't even think up these theories. We just borrow them from delightful intellectuals from across the border.
Let me tell ya something. Just because someone has a title of "historian" tagged to their name or any other title for that matter, doesn't make their opinion necessarily any more accurate than a dumbarse's.
India has more things uncommon with Pakistan then common.
nwfp has more things uncommon with punjab than common. balochistan has more things uncommon with punjab than common. American whites had more thing uncommon with the Black Americans than common.
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Look at the integration of Karachi. Baloch, Pashtun, Sindhi, Memon, Mohajir, Punjabi etc all live together.
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If a pashtoon is living peacefully with Mohajirs, Punjabis, Balochis, why can't he live peacefully with indians? The same goes for punjabis, sindhis etc as well.
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This is stupid nonsense of integrating with India.
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Are you suggesting our forefathers were stupid?
[quote]
Pakistan's problem is it's elite class and the leadership Pakistan has been worst in the world. Same leaders
we have seen since 25years. I remember Imran Khan saying that a Swiss dude wrote a book in the 70's and said that Pakistan was going to be Killa California of Asia.
[/quote]
Pakistan's and the rest of the third world countries have only one problem and that is their religious DOGMAS. Come out of it and i will tell you how possible it is to live with Indians or any other people on earth.
That is very funny actually. Could you please tell me the percentage of christians in Pakistan? and then the percentage of Sweepers in Pakistan who are christians?
Bud this is old story. Christians in Pakistan have now been well integrated. They play their role in the society based on their socioeconomic level.
Sweepers in Pakistan used to be untouchable Hindus before British came around. Then they were converted to Christianity. Some of them have kept their family profession and some have acquired education and moved up the society.
It is incorrect on your part to assume that somehow Christians are being forced into a profession because if their "current" religion. That is clearly not the case.
It is incorrect on your part to assume that somehow Christians are being forced into a profession because if their "current" religion. That is clearly not the case.
I agree with that, it probably reflects how many Christians he has interacted with/heard of etc. I have worked Christian engineers/technicians in Pakistan and there was no discrimination against them in the workplace, not a single insult was ever hurled towards them for being Christian etc.
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Pakistan's and the rest of the third world countries have only one problem and that is their religious DOGMAS. Come out of it and i will tell you how possible it is to live with Indians or any other people on earth.
[/quote]
Indian have yet to MATURE UP like chinese if they want to become a "superpower". You still have biases and riots in india [assam right now] where they burned and hacked muslim families and vice versa. Isn't india itself stuck in religious dogmas?????
Whatever americans say for their interests [the maligned saddam was their ally once], indian attitudes need a lot of changing.
Indian have yet to MATURE UP like chinese if they want to become a "superpower". You still have biases and riots in india [assam right now] where they burned and hacked muslim families and vice versa. Isn't india itself stuck in religious dogmas?????
Whatever americans say for their interests [the maligned saddam was their ally once], indian attitudes need a lot of changing.
Criticism can come from our own side as well. I am from Pakistan!
Bud this is old story. Christians in Pakistan have now been well integrated. They play their role in the society based on their socioeconomic level.
Sweepers in Pakistan used to be untouchable Hindus before British came around. Then they were converted to Christianity. Some of them have kept their family profession and some have acquired education and moved up the society.
It is incorrect on your part to assume that somehow Christians are being forced into a profession because if their "current" religion. That is clearly not the case.
No. I support eternal integrity of Pakistan, from the extreme North to the extreme Southern tip. The key is to find a working formula and a mechanism for dealing with internal grievances without violence.
You auto be kicked out of Peshawar for even suggesting that its ‘ok’ to live with Indians.
As far as this thread goes it is utter nonsense. Edit:
I was going to suggest that only if hindus accept islam can there be talk of unification but on SECOND THOUGHT, my mind is saying an emphatic NO! We Pakistanis look and act differently than them. There are definable differences in all aspects that describes a human.
