**The biggest mess that Bush Jr got himself into was the WMD. I can hear his father and Colin Powell going on that we "must form a coalition". And the only ISSUE that there was nearly unanimous agreement on was WMD. So that was pushed to the forefront. What SHOULD have been pushed is the inability of the UN to indict Saddam for crimes against humanity.
So the whole debate on WMD was a mess. It does not change the fact that Saddam is possibly the only serving leader who could be indicted for the killing of literally hundreds of thousands of his innocent opponents. **
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But what of GBJ's insinuating Iraq was responsible for 9/11? I still see that mention in conservative news columns.
That was another mistake.
If indeed GBJ was trying to sell salvation for the Iraqi people through the destruction of Saddam Hussein...That is what should have been sold as reason to the world and the U.S. public...
NOT- Emotional Insinuations that linked Iraq as responsible for tragic 9/11.....and insinuations that Iraq was immediate imminent threat to U.S.
oh yeah....I forgot....Its the CIA...It's the intelligence fault.......
And of course an investigation is now in process which is supposed to be finis' by March 2005........ after the elections......
LOL I can't believe these warmongers still have the b*lls to show their face on this site and defend Iraq war. Utter arrogance! What makes you guys different then Osama Bin Laden and his supporters? They also have a list of deeds done by the Americans to the people of the world which they use to justify killing innocent Americans.
Okay so Saddam killed a lot of people, was it really necessary to kill all those innocent Iraqis?
I tell you guys what, return the killed Iraqi civilians and we'll call it game.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"OG since when did we become Genocide police"
I consider the deposing of a Genocidal dictator to be one HECK of a good reason to go to war!
No, you can't oust every two bit leader who beats up on his people. But you can make high profile examples of ones who continue outrageous behavior.
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And if deposing of a genocidal maniac is good enough reason to go to war, than no leader has killed more people in today's time than George W. Bush. Shouldn't America then go to war with itself? Or is it waiting for Al-Qaeda to remove this dictator? George Bush's outrageous behaviour should be made an example, no? That means I should fully support Al-Qaeda's plans to displace this leader at any price.
“But what of GBJ’s insinuating Iraq was responsible for 9/11? I still see that mention in conservative news columns.”
There was of course no proven link. But the possibility that a link could develop was a new revelation after 9/11. To kill people with WMD you need the weapon and a delivery system. Terrorists represented a new and dangerous delivery system. The arguement is minor, but carried some weight given Saddams agressiveness in the past.
“Okay so Saddam killed a lot of people, was it really necessary to kill all those innocent Iraqis?”
Unbelievable. You have no concept of magnitude. How many innocent Kuwaitis do you think were killed in the invasion of Kuwait? Read the following about the Kurds. Remember, this is just one campaign. Add the Shia’s, the Draining of the Marshes, and the slaughter of the Marsh Arabs, as well as hundreds of thousands of plain citizens and political opponents:
" The campaigns of 1987-1989 were characterized by the following gross violations of human rights:
Did the Arab world even condemn Saddam? No. Iraq still attended regional meetings. No one called for Saddam to step down until a week before the invasion. Frankly he was getting away with the murder of hundreds of thousands. Clean your own house next time so we don’t have to.
^^ Unbelievable, and this campaign was carried out with the belssing and technology provided by whom? Care to guess? Now, let me ask you where was your outrgae when US was supporting, aiding Saddam to kill all of those people? Was it that he was doing what you wanted him to do i.e. make Iran weaker.... so please keep your morality and humanity appeals to minimum because they are hollow and hypocritical.
Believe me, over the past year and a half I have looked into every allegation that people can throw up that Saddam was "our boy". Here is what I have found:
The US did not provide a single weapon.
The US had diplomatic relations with Iraq for 4 years out of the past 40.
The US did not provide substantial chemical precursors for a chemical program.
The US condemned Iraqs use of chemical weapons before the UN did.
The US and Britain were the first to slap sanctions on Saddams weapons programs.
The US DID provide biological samples to the University of Baghad. (those dang muslim students, can't trust 'em with more than a paper clip).
The US provided virtually no funding or financing to Saddam.
Use your eyes man. You see Russians and the French worrying if they will every collect their Billions. You see Billions spent on Russian armaments, and French airplanes and German nuclear reactors.
The only thing I have been able to find that the US provided Saddam is the locations of Iranian Troop movements. That is by far the worst thing we did. We were not so much pro-Saddam, but anti-Iranian.
Now, what of Saddams "brothers", what of his family, what of his religion? The US did not make Saddam, they provided some tangental support. Learn to assign some responsibility where it is really due, not taking the cheap out of blaming the US for every convenient failure....
And, lest we miss the point of why did Saddam stay in power, let’s get to the ever popular “root cause”.
Money.
Who funded Saddam when he was in power? Try this on for size:
The current discussions are focused on reducing and restructuring debt owed to
Paris Club nations. But Iraq’s financial obligations must be addressed as a whole
– Paris Club debt, non-Paris Club debt, and reparations.
• Iraq’s overall total financial obligations are close to $225 billion. Its debt is an
estimated $120 billion, of which around $21 billion (excluding interest) is owed
to Paris Club countries and the remainder is owed to governments (mostly Arab
countries) and private lenders.
That means that the current debt is $120 BILLION, of which $21 Billion is accrued interest. That means that is what funded Saddams government, his armies, his weapons programs. He required loans of $99 BILLION to stay in power. Did France German and Russia have reasons to keep a despot in power?
Yes, $99 Billion reasons.
The WMD’s should never have been the reason for a war. And, the Muslim community ought to look honestly at who kept this killer of Muslims in power all those years.
OG I will be willing to entertain this idea of yours if you will kimdly divulge your resources. Where exactly did you look to find out if US did or did not help Iraq(Saddam)? There have been several documentaries made and shown on Discovery, abc and other channles that show links between Saddam and US including chemical weapons technology, biological weapons technology and militray know how.
Lest we forget George Bush Sr. gave the OK to saddam to invade Kuwait, it was only after Saddam threatned (foolishly) to invade or attack Saudi Arabia based on the intelligence provided by US which will become the infamous doctoring of satellite images to show troop movement towrads Saudi, when there was none; that Saudi govt allowed US to create/use bases on their soil. I have said repeatedly, I dont blame US for any of the shortcomings of Muslims, its the Muslims themselves that have to own up to their mistakes, however, I dont turn a blind eye to the facts that contribute towards the mess Muslims are in.