Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Unfortunately Punjab has always been ruled, at least during the past 2500 years. We can call Maurya and Gupta civilizations as local (but they were India based) and some Pashtun governments for brief periods like (Lodhi, Sher Shah Suri and Durrani). We have always been ruled by foreigners (Greeks, Scythians, Parthians, White Huns, Mongols, Turks/Afghans, British and now Americans). The only Punjab based rule we have seen is of Ranjeet Singh, and we even disown that. :D
No wonder our history books are so distorted. In any case, I think all these historical periods define what we are.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Those are original manuscripts, not textbooks.
So? Its still the notion that Zia instilled in the text books that we are the descendants of the Mughals of India and their Islamic legacy. That is what the Taliban ideology links too as well.
They can be copies or originals. Its still the fake notion that everything Islamic belongs to Pakistan. It doesn't. Do you see the Turks claiming legacy for what happened in Egypt even they were the seat of the Ottoman empire? Nope.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Distorted in the sense that we read in our childhoods, which begins from 1000 AD like there was vacuum in the region before that.
Exactly my points. Its distorted. This is not our history. We are not the care-takers of the Mughal empire. That is India. Our history is more unislamic than it is Islamic.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Exactly my points. Its distorted. This is not our history. We are not the care-takers of the Mughal empire. That is India. Our history is more unislamic than it is Islamic.
I think we should take pride in our history. Our region has one of the oldest civilizations of the world, I don't know how this notion has developed that discovering our past would some how make us non Muslims. We have got a strange mindset, we eulogize Muslim invaders like Ghauri, Ghaznavi, Moghuls etc but shun non Muslim sons of the soil (like Ranjeet Singh who is the only genuine Punjabi leader in our recorded history). I don't know if its inferiority complex or what. Every country in this world has been non muslim at some stage.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
I think we should take pride in our history. Our region has one of the oldest civilizations of the world, I don't know how this notion has developed that discovering our past would some how make us non Muslims. We have got a strange mindset, we eulogize Muslim invaders like Ghauri, Ghaznavi, Moghuls etc but shun non Muslim sons of the soil (like Ranjeet Singh who is the only genuine Punjabi leader in our recorded history). I don't know if its inferiority complex or what. Every country in this world has been non muslim at some stage.
Like I said earlier, if you think we are the care takers of the Muslim heritage like Zia put in our schools you are welcome to do so. I define our heritage based on our geographical boundaries. What the Ottoman empire did in Tunisia has no affect on me as a Pakistani. Just like what happened in Kabul or Agra has no importance as a Pakistani.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
So? Its still the notion that Zia instilled in the text books that we are the descendants of the Mughals of India and their Islamic legacy. That is what the Taliban ideology links too as well.
They can be copies or originals. Its still the fake notion that everything Islamic belongs to Pakistan. It doesn't. Do you see the Turks claiming legacy for what happened in Egypt even they were the seat of the Ottoman empire? Nope.
William Darymple has used such archives to write one of the most respected biographies of Quaid-e-Azam and other books on South Asian history! Those are NOT Zia produced text books.
You did not even read what are those manuscripts about!!!!!!
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Actually the definitive history on Jinnah is by Wolpert for its authenticity and basis on fact and not opinion. But that is not the point I am making.
The documents that are listed article do not relate to Pakistan. Its good to the author focuses on "Lawrence, Kipling and Garrett" and the house they lived in than other things. Sadly I didn't know the authors of the British colonial raj were Pakistani. My bad.
I guess by that standard we claim Arab history as well.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
^^^ I do not know why you have such inferiority complex, or think that Pakistani history is only 60 years old, or that Pakistani history started after Islam reached the area, or that Pakistan history and heritage only relates to area that we now know as Pakistan and Pakistan has nothing to do with wider area that effected Pakistan, people of Pakistan and effected Pakistan what it is today. But whatever, I have to say that you should change your thinking because if not then it would be you who would get forgotten from Pakistan, and not the historical facts heritage Pakistan that made Pakistan.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
I still think that name of culprits responsible of such harmful deeds should be made public along with their background, so that persons harming Pakistan get exposed to general public (including his own relatives), and we can abuse the person involved in national crimes (be that person corrupt, thekadar of Islam, incompetent or retard). This is necessary to make the culprits and whoever appointed such culprits feel ashamed (though I know that many such people have think skin).
As for what happened to such books of historical heritage (be it related to Pakistan or not), I think person involved must be having mind-set like Zafra above, who lives in the well of their shallow mentality … but then I would not be surprised that such ‘national crime’ may have been done by one considering himself ‘thekadar of Islam’, who with their inferiority complex, do not care neither like true background of Pakistani heritage but like to change or rewrite Pakistani history according to their own mind-set (and such collections are hindrance to their evil design). These people are like Zia-ul-Haq who even changed Pakistan school syllabus with lies and concocted truth, to make people think his way.
These people with retarded mind cannot appreciate that people, races, language, mythology, stories, religion, culture, and boundaries of an area keep changing but area do not discard, rather add all changes to its historical heritage and make it rich.
For instance, if Prophet (SAW) brought Islam to Jazeera-tul-Arabia, many things changed in that area, but if we take away pre-Prophet (SAW) or non-Islamic history from that area, area and people of that area would no doubt lose out, but even Islam would lose out badly.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Good to know that the house Kipling sat in for a few hours is a very important part of Pakistani history. So much for removing the shackles of colonialism.
The beauty of all of this is that the very same people that complain of our "islamic identity" under Zia wish to add to it our colonial and other elements under the same vein.
Pot meet kettle, and have some paint to cover all the black.
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
^^^
No one can deny or try to wipe out legacy of Zia however black. sinful, and horrendous the period maybe, but there are two problems.
1: Calling Zia legacy as Islamic identity is outrageously preposterous, as Zia legacy was not Islamic identity but Shaitanic fitna.
2: Again, no one deny or demean Islamic heritage of Pakistan … rather it is foolish to even expect from us Muslims to do that, Muslims who are today struggling to redeem ‘corruption, interference, and bad image’ Islam got from people like Zia-ul-Haq and their likes …and extension of Zia’s legacy in the form of Kharjism within Pakistan, causing Fitna, Fasad and ‘Al-harj in abundance’ all across Pakistan.
Regardless, land and history of Pakistan is much older than Islam and is very rich, along with all linked and equally rich historical heritages in vicinity of Pakistan (all across sub-content). No doubt, in this legacy we see great super powers and constructions along with downfall in the form of colonisation … and as proud realistic beings, we Pakistanis (along with people of the region) accept that … except those who like to live a life of lies (like Zia-ul-Haq and people of his mind-set).
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Actually the definitive history on Jinnah is by Wolpert for its authenticity and basis on fact and not opinion. But that is not the point I am making.
The documents that are listed article do not relate to Pakistan. Its good to the author focuses on "Lawrence, Kipling and Garrett" and the house they lived in than other things. Sadly I didn't know the authors of the British colonial raj were Pakistani. My bad.
I guess by that standard we claim Arab history as well.
Wolpert did get his 'facts' from such archives, didn't he? Or, did he manage to get an interview appointment with Mr. Jinnah and his contemporaries?
Like it or not, British colonial raj is part of our history. Thank you. Jinnah lived almost all his life during the 'terrible' British Raj. Iqbal lived all his life during that time. Should we throw away that part of our history too?
BTW, by your logic, I suppose the Spanish should not preserve the mosques and palaces built by Muslim 'invaders' in their country? [which they have done magnificently]
Re: How our entire history was dumped in a horse stable
Good to know that the house Kipling sat in for a few hours is a very important part of Pakistani history. So much for removing the shackles of colonialism.
The beauty of all of this is that the very same people that complain of our "islamic identity" under Zia wish to add to it our colonial and other elements under the same vein.
Pot meet kettle, and have some paint to cover all the black.
Can we wipe out parts of our history if we don't like it? Area forming Pakistan now has had some connection with Afghanistan, Persia and northern India. It's important to know about our history to find out more about our own character. I wish our rulers had given more importance to history.
The way people behave in balochistan, fata and Afghanistan has changed little during the past few centuries. People of north Punjab used to offer some resistance to foreign occupation (Alexander versus porus) and thus form bulk of Pakistan army now (British coined martial race). The rest of Punjab has always had a slave mentality, our masters can be Arabs or Americans. Anyways, history is an important subject neglected by Pakistanis.