Re: How much longer do we let Kaneria "develop" into a world class bowler
Saleem bhai:
Wickets per test is an irrelevant stat. In Qadir's time, i.e. in the 70s and 80s the bowlers hardly ever got to bowl more than once in a test. There was no such thing as a min. of 90 overs that had to be bowled in a day and a team could easily get away with bowling 68-70 overs in a day!. Now because of this very rule and the way the Aussies have revolutionised test cricket, we see more and more results even in sub-continental tests.
To give you an example 10 of the last 14 tests since 1999 between India and Pakistan have produced results (5 all with 4 drawn). By contrast only 11 of the previous 44 tests between the two sides produced results (7-4 to PAK)
More relevant stats as far as bowlers are concerned are bowling average and SR (wickets per 100 balls) and if you compare the two, Qadir has a slightly lower (only just) bowling average and a higher SR
QADIR: 67 Tests, 236 wkts, ave: 32.80, SR: 32.80, 5wI 15, 10wM 5
KANERIA: 51 Tests, 219 wkts, ave: 33.62, SR: 67.75, 5wI 12, **10wM **2
Asif Bhai, bura na manna. Above figures you quoted where you showed that AQ SR= 32.80 is BS. Unfortunately you quoted wrong figure and based all your arguments on that wrong figure.
You quoted Qadir SR = 32.80 and DK SR = 67.75 than making that as basis argued that Qadir is much better bowler. In your argument you talked about Qadir use to bowl less Over and that is why he got only 236 wks in 67 tests … blah and blah … but fact is that, if Kaneria had bowled as many Over as Qadir, he would have taken around 260 wks instead of 236 what Qadir took. True SR of Qadir is not 32.8 but it is 72.6 (12 overs) and SR of DK is 67.75 (11 overs) than you can see your argument becomes upside down. I believe that in your desire to show AQ better bowler than DK, you quoted Qadir average of 32.81 as his SR too.
You should also remember that DK most wickets are of top and middle order batsmen, not like A Qadir who use to come at the end to mop off tail end players.
Anyhow, here are real and true figures of both bowlers (I am quoting them even though my purpose was never to compare them, but had to do after some here started comparing them both).
A Qadir: **
Overall (13 years)
**Overs: 2810.2 Overs
Runs: 7742
Wickets: 236 wkts
5 Wkts per inning: 15 times
Best bowling figure: 9/56
Average runs per wicket: 32.81
Strike Rate: 72.57 balls per wkt (12 overs to take one wkt)
Economy Rate: 2.71
D Kaneria:
Overall (8 years)
Overs: 2473 Overs
Runs: 7362
Wickets: 219 wkts
5 Wkts per inning: 12 times
Best bowling figure: 7/77
Average runs per wicket: 33.62
Strike Rate: 67.75 balls per wkt (11 overs to take one wkt)
Economy Rate: 2.98
A Q: Played 13 years:
Pakistan best wicket Keepers (Rashid Latif and Moin Khan) were playing with ‘AQ’ and these wicketkeepers seldom use to drop catches or miss stumping chances:
Strike rate: ‘AQ’ on average use to take one wicket every 72.57 balls. Or use to need 12 over to take one wicket.
D K: Played 8 years:
Pakistan worst wicket Keeper (Kamran Akmal) plays with ‘DK’ who is expert in dropping catches and missing stumping chances.
Strike rate: ‘DK’ on average takes one wicket every 67.75 balls. Or need 11 over to take one wicket.
[Better SR of DK shows that DK is more attacking bowler than AQ]
A Q: Best bowling figures per inning, 13 years:
‘AQ’ played 13 years and in 2 out of 13 years ‘AQ’ took 7 or more wickets in an inning ( that comes to 15.4 percent). 8 out of 13 years ‘AQ’ took more 5 or more wickets in an inning (that comes to 61.5 percent).
DK: Best bowling figures per inning, 13 years:
‘DK’ played 8 years and in 3 out of 8 years ‘DK’ took 7 or more wickets in an innings (that comes to 37.5 percent). 6 out of 8 years ‘DK’ took more 5 or more wickets in an innings (that comes to 75 percent). 'DK' is still playing in 8th year).
Quality of wickets:
*‘AQ’ quality of wickets: *
Of ‘AQ’ 236 wickets, he took:
Top and middle order batsmen: 158 wickets or 66.9 percent.
Tail ender batsmen: 78 wickets or 33.1
*‘DK’ quality of wickets: *
Of ‘DK’ 219 wickets, he took:
Top and middle order batsmen: 155 wickets or 70.8 percent.
Tail ender batsmen: 64 wickets or 29.2 percent
Other figures of both bowlers are very close to each other (almost similar):
Average (runs given per wicket) and Economy rate (runs given per Over):
AQ:
Average: 32.8
Economy rate: 2.7
DK
Average: 33.6
Economy rate: 2.9
**Significance of good strike rate in test cricket: **Normally, test cricket result get decided in last inning. A team bowling in 4th inning may have given good total for opponent to chase or play out the game for draw. In this situation, team tries to take opponent’s wickets quickly without worrying about runs. In such situation, an attacking bowler with good strike rate is most useful as run becomes irrelevant.
**Example: **If team gave good target to opponent team in 4th inning and want to win, they would like bowler with good strike rate and not would not care about their average or economy rate. If team want to draw than they would like bowler with good economy rate. In earlier innings (first 3), where team wants to restrict opponent’s team total, team would like bowler good average. Overall, players provide compromise between all three, still to win games, best bowler is one that has good strike rate with reasonable average and economy rate.