Honor Killing

Yesterday 48 hours[TV-program-CBS] reported some stories relating to “honor killing.” It was devastating to see what they reported. I often do not trust the “western” media and I do not like the way they twist the facts. Anyway, I am not here to talk about the western media or any other non-sense relating to the west it self.

I am here to talk about our own “society and cultural” problems. First of all, the stories they reported:

http://cbsnews.cbs.com/now/story/0,1597,242264-412,00.shtml

(CBS) Jason and Meriam Johnson insist nothing will ever come between them But there are powerful forces trying to pull them apart.

Their romance has become an international incident. In the name of love, they’ve broken laws and defied a royal family. Correspondent Harold Dow reports.

To Americans, she’s a princess (her exact title is sheika) but by coming to the United States with Jason Johnson, Meriam al Khalifa may have put her life in danger. She could risk being sent to jail, she said.

“Because of her relationship with me, she should be lashed, executed, stone, killed, shot,” said Jason Johnson.

Their story began in Bahrain, a tiny island nation in the Persian Gulf. Johnson was stationed there with the U.S. Marines. The son of a truck driver, he had grown up in a tough neighborhood in Long Beach, Calif. Being overseas was a welcome adventure.

Bahrain certainly looks like a modern country but beneath the surface of video games and fast food, it’s a land of time-honored customs. Women in particular are expected to play by the old rules.

Honor Crimes
Find out about honor crimes in other countries.

“If you go out a lot, you get a bad reputation,” said al Khalifa Johnson. “The best thing to do is just stay at home and not be seen.”

Seventeen-year-old Meriam al Khalifa, a high school senior, liked going out. She was at the mall when friends introduced her to Johnson.

“When I saw her, she caught my attention. She was very gorgeous,” he recalled.

She spoke flawless English. Because dating was out of the question, Jason Johnson and Meriam al Khalifa became secret friends.

“To me he was crazy or like kind of funny,” she said. “He made us all laugh.”

But it was months before Johnson discovered his new friend was a member of Bahrain’s royal family. She said she thought he would get scared and she didn’t want to risk losing the friendship.

CBS
Jason Johnson: takes on a risk on a forbidden relationship

The al Khalifas have ruled Bahrain for centuries. As a member of the extended family, Meriam is entitled to money, privilege and prestige.

As a young royal, she met a more famous royal, Princess Diana, when she was 5.

And royals also have special obligations.

“When we get married, we have to get married to someone who’s in the royal family, too; we have to keep the name and the blood,” she explained.

Johnson did not have the right name, nationality, or religion. He’s a Mormon; she’s a Muslim.

“I know a lot of people said I was crazy. I’m not crazy. I just know what I want,” said al Khalifa Johnson.

The Marine and the sheika secretly met at the movies. Then, one day, Meriam made a daring move. She kissed him, though she said she hadn’t been planning to.

“It was one of those innocent kisses that your grandmother would give you before you go to bed,” Jason Johnson recalled.

And somebody saw them. The next day, Meriam’s mother laid down the law. Her mother told her, she had five minutes to call her boyfriend and end it, she recalled.

But weeks later, Meriam defied her parents again and called the Marine. That sparked a flurry of passionate letters.

With Jason Johnson’s days in Bahrain dwindling, the couple hatched a bold plan. Meriam would go back to America with him secretly. She would sneak out of her house late at night and meet him in a car parked nearby.

Meriam recalls they were supposed to meet at 11; if she didn’t show up by that hour, he should leave; she would not be going.

Jason Johnson and his friends had carefully planned the escape, he said; they studied security procedures at the airport. They used night vision goggles to peer inside the airport while driving around, he explained.

One friend fashioned documents that helped transform the sheika into a U.S. Marine.

At the appointed hour, Johnson dutifully waited for 45 minutes.

But Meriam was having second thoughts. Finally, she made the hardest decision of her life, which she described in her diary: “I closed the door, turned off the lights and opened the window. I knew I was following my heart.”

Disguised in a Yankee cap and baggy pants, Meriam sped off to the airport with Johnson.

“I really don’t know what they would have done to Meriam,” he recalled. “But then again, failure wasn’t an option so I tried not to think about it.”

“That was my fear,” she said. “That I’d get caught, and that he’d get caught and, you know, everything’s just going to go wrong.”

Finally, they were on a plane together but there was a crucial error. Since she forgot to lock her bedroom door, her absence was discovered in the morning, Johnson said.

Meriam’s parents immediately notified authorites. So when Jason Johnson and Meriam al Khalifa landed in Chicago, they were stopped, Johnson said.


There was another related story on a Pakistani couple[Humera and manu(not sure of his name). They were in love and wanted to marry and their families did not approve of it and ran away…yada yadaa yaddaa…Now the most stupid part is that, father of Humera had promised his brother to give his daughter to the son of his brother even before she was born!!!
What is wrong with these stupid, ignorent people that they marry or engage someone who is not even born yet???

I think it ought to change and IT must change. This is not how it should be! These people do not deserve this and there MUST be another solution to thise disease that is taking our Islamic society back to the pre-Islamic times. :mad:


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 21, 2000).]

this girl, she's 17?? i really dont think its appropriate for a young muslim girl that age to be running away with a man who's not even Muslim... anyway, i certainly dont mean to condone the restrictions that society puts upon such people. But Watcher, honestly, do u actually think that she was right in defying her parents, not to mention Allah by behaving this way?? It IS unfair when parents dont let their kids choose their life partners but it does not mean that they have to act inappropriately. There IS something called patience and honour and in the end, Allah does reward people to do not act so rashly.

I do not think she did the right thing, ho NO! I think there was more civilized and more appropriate way to handle such "crush."

But, when a girl is not a Muslim or does not care about being Muslim than you have no choice. If she was a rightly guided Muslim, she should have asked the man she loved to become Muslim. He would have done it because he is her lover. Instead she brings hell upon her family, her religion and her dignity!


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**I do not think she did the right thing, ho NO! I think there was more civilized and more appropriate way to handle such "crush."

But, when a girl is not a Muslim or does not care about being Muslim than you have no choice. If she was a rightly guided Muslim, she should have asked the man she loved to become Muslim. He would have done it because he is her lover. Instead she brings hell upon her family, her religion and her dignity!

**
[/quote]

I think no doubt there were more than one mistakes in this story.In america ,where we are surrounded by non muslim,i am sure no body(make that never say never)goes to mall or movies with boy friend at 17 from muslim family .be they from any country including india (nonmuslim nation)To be introduced to a foreign marine ,the presence itself of which is indicated by blowing up of ships,barracks,& resentment in the heart of all MUSLIMS,sounds like UNBELIEVABLE.

There are 1 bn. muslim with varying allegience to what it means to be one.It is wrong for a muslim boy to do that at 17 what this "cocky brat americanized by distant"behaved like.I saw few of her verbal clips,acting out the role of 'melrose place'or 'hang time'

Merriam is not the first muslim girl to act this way ,nor she will be the last.For lack of better term ,lets call them 'unbeliever'There are more forces acting against us than for us,but as adults we do have some obligation to give directions,reason,structure ,role model &sound theological knowledge ,if we are moral,righteous,'normal' ppl.Not only in this case but in many such cases ,it is just the tip of the iceberg.It represents the like of muslim ,whose parents wanted there children to be what they turned out to be.i mean if a poor man can afford to instruct there dozen kids in measly salaary ,to not onlyinstruct to be good muslim,& professionals,what limitations could allah have placed on a king..If you don't care .no one else will.

U guys have extremely conservative thoughts, u guys are Idiots. I think what you have forgotten is that all this time she had faith in her Allah.
So dont question her faith and her belief in her God. What she did was what her heart told her to do.
She has listened to the first voice that came from her heart, (most righteous).
And dont call it CRUSH, it was love and very sacred one.

I dont get pissed off that easy but when people like u guys talk rubbish its hard to put up with.

God Bless this couple. All my love for them.

From the story i can also see that this isn't the best muslim, but who are we to judge.....

About her running away with this guy, i don't know if that is wrong or right, i would never do that, but i know alot of people who have, sometimes the love for one person can be so strong, that you can't control your actions, love is pretty strong i guess, when she first met the guy, she didn't plan on falling in love it just happpened....why do i get the feeling that she is getting all the blame, somethings about our religion, traditions and culture, are a little extreme, it gets hard for a young muslim male/female , in this time in age, to be like there parents and grandparents were at their age...offcourse she shouldn't have ran away like that, but if she didn't she'd end up marrying some guy she didn't have any feeling for, i mean this is her life, she should do what she wants, and is happy with........

Sanam

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Yasin, ever think of debating without the use of hideous language and without making personal remarks about other people? Keep your anger to yourself sir! When you learn to act in a decent manner and when you learn to talk without making personal remarks(attacks) please let me know. I will be happy to explain my post to you. :slight_smile: Take it easy sir.

Appkiamaanat, where in Islam does it say that its ok for you to run away from home? Where in Islam does it say that “if girls heart says that she must run from her home, she should??” No one is questioning her faith or judging her faith. Her actions speak for themselve.

As I said there was better way to handle this situation. She could have made efforts in handling this situation in a civilized manner. Instead she sneaks out of the window in the middle of the night. That is pretty civilized, you say???


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

Watcher,

Right out of the gate let me make my opinion on the matter clear.....I do not approve of people running away with each other.

Having said that let me ask you this:

In an environment where a woman feels physically threatened or vulnerable, how can you expect her to stay and fight?

Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that had this girl been open and honest with her family she would have been granted her wishes?

What "civilized" manner are you referring to? Perhaps there is something that I am overlooking.....

[quote]
Originally posted by Yasin:
**
And dont call it CRUSH, it was love and very sacred one.

I dont get pissed off that easy but when people like u guys talk rubbish its hard to put up with.

**
[/quote]

How the hell can something haram be something sacred?
It is haram in our religion for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man. If you are not muslim then who the hell cares what your beliefs are, atleast understand and respect the islamic point of view and don't talk 'RUBBISH' on our Pakistani forum for which islam is the official religion.

Muzna,
I've known some muslim girls who got married to guys who were not muslim initially. They did talk to their parents, they did teach islam to the guy, and with Allah's blessing and hidayat, in many cases the guy did become muslim and the 2 married. See that is civilized, if a girl deals with it with fear of Allah in mind and respect for her religion, why wouldn't Allah reward her for her faith? going off and marrying someone without any feeling for islam is disgusting and cheap for a muslim to do. Forget about marrying just a muslim, we muslims are told to choose a 'good' muslim for marriage. Forget islam in your everyday life, and Allah will forget you too. Nobody can lose with fear of Allah in mind. When they have no fear of Allah, expect to fear everything and everyone! and expect to lose also........

Salaam

[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited October 23, 2000).]

Sorry that I was little harshed and that I used the word “idiots” in my previous post. Sorry about that. However I do think that was the best possible act the two lovers did, and Allah did helped them in that (I believe). And I wish them all the best in life ahead.

** STRONGMAN **
I dont know if any of u remember an incident that happened a few years back when a guy from Karachi and a Patan girl got married without the concent of their parents. They did ran away. Finally when they won the case in court, this guy was shot by the father of the gal and her brothers, as they were leavin g the court. 17 bullets, 17, just escaped from being paralyse for whole life. Thank God he survived and is well. And are living happily some where in Eupore.
U can consisder this as Haram as well, but to me it was a true love and Allah did give this couple a second life, becuase they knew that only Allah is with them, and they just stick together.

take care folks

Yasin-
Yes, I know about this Karachi incident very well.
No, I don't consider that haram because both were muslim! I think the parents made a big mistake by not allowing the 2 to marry in peace thus causing major riots in karachi between mujahir and pathan and other cultural groups.

Thats a more complex situation, perhaps sin for not obeying parents but defintiely not haram or forbidden both are muslim so obviously its allowed. I don't feel that pakistani couple crossed any dangerous islamic borders. Both were muslim so its a different set of circumstances.

Salaam

[This message has been edited by STRONGMAN (edited October 24, 2000).]

[quote]
Originally posted by STRONGMAN:
**Yasin-
Yes, I know about this Karachi incident very well.
No, I don't consider that haram because both were muslim! I think the parents made a big mistake by not allowing the 2 to marry in piece thus causing major riots in karachi between mujahir and pathan and other cultural groups.

Thats a more complex situation, perhaps sin for not obeying parents but defintiely not haram or forbidden both are muslim so obviously its allowed. I don't feel that pakistani couple crossed any dangerous islamic borders. Both were muslim so its a different set of circumstances.

Salaam**
[/quote]

I dont see any thing wrong for a muslim woman to marry a non muslim guy. Its love that counts. U and me or the society always criticise no matter what. And I believe that true islam is not rigid at all, it totally coincide with human instincts. Society tries to make is rigid.

Strongman,

If we want to give examples then we can be here forever.

We are talking about the example at hand. It is regarding a high-profile family that is "royalty". I would tend to believe that they would be rather stringent in their approach.....I could be wrong.

Finally, if the girl was the proper "muslimah" that everyone keeps describing....there would be no need for this discussion would there? Fact of the matter is that reality does not support that theory. She's young, immature and likely aware of her mistake and fearing the consequences....that's why she ran.

I have usually seen people run when they fear persecution. Otherwise they are what you refer to as "civil". They stay and try the proper route to accomplish what they desire.

Honor killing? whose honor? a Muslim girl gets raped and her own brother shoots her dead. Muslim girl/woman gets raped , sometimes gangraped and she gets jailed for some crime against religion as seen by the State.Why dont Muslim MEN go out and kill the rapist? Are women not EQUAL human beings?

All human beings are equal, regardles of race, color, religion or gender. Yes , religion too. For only God may judge. And , for heavens sake, let us stop living in the past. And we all men, let us grow up. Women are human beings like us, maybe even better than some men.I have great respect for all women, even more so for Muslim women and I will do any and all to help them in their rights as human beings, equal to or in many cases better than many men. I hope in this century Muslim nations will see the real Islamic light and start respecting women instead of continuing to treat them as subordinates or slaves.Please think calmly before you rush into attacking me personnaly.Let us do an introspection and analyse why Muslim men are always so scared about Muslim women exercising their God given rights.After any "revolution" the first thing we do in Muslim nations is to further enslave women. Check out Afganistan. To show our love for Islam, we must excercise wisdom, compassion, and charity towards all.Every woman has every right that a man has. For , she is answerable to same God that a man is . Marrying anybody or not marrying anybody is entirely her choice.Since marriagewithout consent is rape,it follows that she has every right to choose her own destiny .This has nothing to do with western or eastern values. It is aquestion of human dignity.It is beyond any iteligent person's mind to percieve how parents, brothers can be cruel to their own daughters or sisters as to actually murder them for excercising their God given human rights.In ending I pray to AlMighty, please give us men compassion so we can love our women as equal instead of "look after them" as our cattle.

[This message has been edited by kenyan (edited October 23, 2000).]

Like i said before, i’m not going to say if it is right or wrong…and you asking me where in Islam does it say you should run away from home??? Well, where in Islam does it say you shouldn’t??? I know her decision was wrong because she went against her parents, but the parents shouldn’t have been how they were…And you guys are questioning her faith, we don’t know her, and we don’t know how strong her believes are, we only know that she ran away…And you suggesting her to take more civilized actions, well, what could she do, she couldn’t just go to her parents and tell them she loves this guy and wants to marry him, what would you have done???

And another thing, her being a good muslim or not, i can’t say, but think of it like this, is she wasn’t good muslim, she could have just ran away with the guy and lived with him, but that would be gunna, she married the guy, did it the right way, followed her religion…so maybe instead of just seeing the negatives try to see the positives…and like i’ve said twice before, i’m not saying it is right to run away from home, but try looking at all the facts and our culture, and religion, and what would happen if she didn’t run away, how her life would be totally different.

Dear Muzna,

My problem is not with how the girl was being treated before she ran away, etc. My problem is that she ran away. Which is totally wrong and should not be done by anyone(muslim or non-muslim). Agree? Ok.

Now, First of all, When a Muslim women wants to marry a man who is not Muslim, a man MUST become a Muslim to marry a Muslim women and gurrantee that childern will be Muslims. :) Now that is quite abvious that it is not going happen.
She could have asked her houshold to "consider" this matter for her. She should have told them that, he is the one she wants and wants to marry him. She could have atleast made efforts to make the guys Muslim. Then where ever she wants to live is her bussiness and her husnband's bussiness. Runing away like this in the middle of night just too bad and totally against the teachings of Islam.

Yasin, that is ok. Take it easy next time.

So, you think that was the best act they could have done? Well, let me know how you feel about this matter what something like this falls upon your shoulders. I hope, it does not happen to any sister or brother, but one needs to taste it to find out what it really means and needs. Good luck sir.

Kenyan, if all follow the Islam, those things would not happen and you wouldn't be here smashing your head against us. :) Take it easy sir.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[quote]
Originally posted by kenyan:
Honor killing? whose honor? a Muslim girl gets raped and her own brother shoots her dead. Muslim girl/woman gets raped , sometimes gangraped and she gets jailed for some crime against religion as seen by the State.Why dont Muslim MEN go out and kill the rapist? Are women not EQUAL human beings?
[/quote]

You are right, i also don't understand why, when muslim girls are raped, they are punished for it, like they commited a crime, that is the reason so many muslim girls get raped, and alot of them get raped more than once, cause they are too scared to say something, and if they do say something, people tell them not to talk about it, because of izaat and stuff, sure it might get stopped but the guys never get punished for it, cause people don't want to make a seen, they feel ashmed,that is crazy they didn't do anything wrong and they shouldn't feel ashmed.....But there is one thing you said that i disagree with, women aren't equal to men, Islam doesn't say that women are equal to men, and we don't want that either, we just want more respect, we get treated like children...

Eve was created from Adam's ribs, aurat ko admeen kai saar kai uper be nahain hona chahiya, aur paar kai nichai be nahain, aurat ko admeen kai dil kai paas hona chahiya...........

i dont think people should take yasin posts seriously. Since the guy has landed on canadian soil he has become definatly kafir. Someone who believes in fornicatin is evil man like yasin.

[quote]
Originally posted by sufimaster:
**

i dont think people should take yasin posts seriously. Since the guy has landed on canadian soil he has become definatly kafir. Someone who believes in fornicatin is evil man like yasin. **
[/quote]

LOL
Good to hear from u Sufi. I was woundering where u vanished all of sudden. No words no participation. Any ways thanx for letting people know, not to take my words seriously. About being kafir :) I really have a big smile on my face after reading your post. Atleast my friends do have some thoughts about me.

take care, and bye for now, I got to start my work.

bye