History of Muslim-Jewish relations

mercenary2k · April 20, 2006, 3:44am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Conspiring bankers??

Do you even know the bio of Hitler?

His mom had Cancer and their jewish family doctor was unable to treat her

He applied to a Vienna arts school but was rejeceted by the largely Jewish trustee board...

So, let me get this straight, you are actually justifiying his hatred and actions towards Jews in world war II and the holocaust?

Kaleem · April 20, 2006, 4:00am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Nope, I am not. Not at all, I am merely putting forward possible reasons for his behavior. Reasoning does not equal justification. BTW, by the same token you sure are justifying Israel's killings of innocnet palestanians.
Please go read the WWII history again...you may find some refrence to the bankers :)

mercenary2k · April 20, 2006, 4:03am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

I have, and I still dont find any reasonings for the bankers…

Israel does not launch its planes and goes indiscriminately killing Arabs

its called targetted killings

it takes out terrorist leaders

and if they dont have the balls that they have to use women and children as human shield then what are you suppose to do…

Dude, I wrote the article on World war II

you are trying to educate me on World war II

there, I wrote that

Kaleem · April 20, 2006, 4:06am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

So what if you wrote that... its wikipedia...no refrences, no checks of historic facts...stop while you are ahead. You want me to believe all the crap that is written on wikipedia. You do need to go to sleep.

mercenary2k · April 20, 2006, 4:11am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

I thougth so...

With such a main article, it gets checked and re-checked...

But I suspect you mostly spend your time on these anti-jewish sites and never on educational sites

but I suspect you don't even know one iota of World War II facts to begin with

So what if I wrote that?

It just shows how much more educated, learned I am compared to you..

all of your arguments, I have defeated with facts and conjecture and yet you come back with ridicilous conspiracy theories as proof...

Kaleem · April 20, 2006, 4:26am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Here is one little refrence for you

[QUOTE]

Jews were perceived as dangerous enemies of Germany after Samuel Untermeyer, the leader of the World Jewish Economic Federation, declared war on Germany on August 6 1933. (Edwin Black The Transfer Agreement: the Untold Story of the Secret Pact between the Third Reich and Palestine (1984) pp272-277) According to Black, 'The one man who most embodied the potential death blow to Germany was Samuel Untermeyer.' (p 369). This was the culmination of a worldwide boycott of German goods led by international Jewish organizations. The London Daily Express on March 24, 1933 carried the headline Judea Declares War on Germany. The boycott was particularly motivated by the German imposition of the Nuremberg Laws, which ironically were similar in intent and content to the Jewish cultural exclusivism practiced so visibly in present-day Israel (Hannah Arendt Eichmann in Jerusalem p 7).

[/QUOTE]

Kaleem · April 20, 2006, 4:29am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Oh yeah, you are so enlightened and learned that you claim wiki articles as factual. Dude get a life. It has no validity at all. It is checked by whom? Self proclaimed learned and enlightened folks like you ? :D. Man you are hillarious.
BTW, you dont know anything about me, however, your statements regarding my behavior shows your real intellect or lack thereof.

mercenary2k · April 20, 2006, 11:05am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Dude you are making the same judegement towards me

I gave you proof of my intellecutal knowledge

but as I suspect the knowledge was too complex for you:D

Captain1 · April 20, 2006, 3:37pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

merc, Kaleem: Instead of challenging/comment "you don't know jack" lets put the knowledge on table here. Is there an "authentic" source of knowledge that we all can agree upon to refer to? Otherwise this debate will continue till proverbial cows come home.

Kaleem · April 20, 2006, 3:57pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

If Wiki article is proof of your intelliegence, then I feel for you. You have a long way to go. Wiki is not a scholarly accepted institution. No cross checks by the scholars or refrences. Its your opinion and it sadly it does not amount to much.

mercenary2k · April 20, 2006, 6:46pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

well atleast I am doing something for Pakistan which none of you are

I am creating new articles about the Pakistan Army, Navy, Air Force, Paramilitary Forces, history, ISI, etc.....

Lajawab · April 20, 2006, 7:21pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

mercenary2k:

Once upon a time, a widely circulated Jewish document described Islam as “an act of God’s Mercy”.

Also, Jews in the near East, north Africa and Spain threw their support behind advancing Muslim Arab armies.

No, these aren’t fairy tales or propaganda. The relationship between Muslims and Jews really was that cooperative and marked by peaceful coexistence.

Just ask Khalid Siddiqi of the Islamic Education and Information Center in San Jose, California where he also teaches Islamic Studies and Arabic at Chabot College and Ohlone College.

Siddiqi notes that the first quote above is from S. D. Goitein’s book Jews and Arabs. The second is from Merlin Swartz’s ‘The Position of Jews in Arab lands following the rise of Islam’ (reprinted from The Muslim World. Hartford Seminary Foundation LXI1970).

Swartz also says the Muslim Arab conquest marked the dawn of a new era. Those forces that had led to the progressive isolation and disruption of Jewish life were not only checked they were dramatically reversed.

In an interview with Sound Vision, Siddiqi gave numerous examples of Jews flourishing under Muslim rule in places like Spain, Morocco, North African in general and various parts of the Middle East.

Siddiqi points out that Islam as a religion has given specific guidelines for the followers of Islam to base their relationship with any non-Muslim. These include People of Scripture, like the Jews, people who belong to other religions, and even atheists. Non-Muslims must be treated on the basis of Birr (kindness) and Qist (justice), as referred to Surah 60 verse 8 of the Quran.

It started at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)

The peaceful coexistence of Muslims and Jews began at the time of the Prophet.

Siddiqi notes that the Jews welcomed the Prophet when he arrived in Madinah at the time of Hijrah (migration), along with the rest of the city’s inhabitants.

But the Prophet had begun the step towards good relations with Jewish and other communities in Madinah even before getting there.

After receiving an invitation to Madinah from one of the city’s tribes that had accepted Islam, the Prophet signed treaties with the city’s Jewish, Christian and polytheist tribes before he arrived there.

These treaties clearly laid out responsibilities of each of the parties. It was based on these that the Prophet established the Mithaq al Madinah, the constitution of Madinah.

Siddiqi says this was the first constitution of the world and one of the greatest political documents ever prepared by any human being. It is the oldest surviving constitution of any state.

Under this constitution, any Jew who followed the Muslims was entitled to their assistance and the same rights as anyone of them without any injustice or partisanship.

It said the Jews are an Ummah (community of believers) alongside the Muslims. The Jews have their religion and the Muslims theirs. As well, it noted that each will assist one another against any violation of this covenant.

Jews during the Muslim era

Despite this early breach of contract, there are still numerous examples from Muslim history of Muslim-Jewish cooperation and coexistence.

Siddiqi gave examples of how Muslim Spain, which was a “golden era” of creativity and advancement for Muslims was also one for Jews.

While Europe was in its Dark Ages and Jews were reviled there, Muslims in Spain during the same period worked side by side with Jews in developing literature, science and art.

Together, they translated classical Greek texts into Arabic. This task later helped Europe move out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance.

Jews flourished under Muslim rule in Egypt as well, where they achieved very high positions in government.

That is True Islam

Not the lies, hate, vilifying of Jews that people espouse to today

It is sad and pathetic.

That Islam which brought brotherly love between Jews and Muslims is now being used by these dictatorships, terrorists in the Middle East to vilify them.

These people don’t know their own history.

Sad to see so many Pakistanis beleiving this Arab propoganda

It is you who is vilifying Jews and in the process also vilifying Islam and Muslims…In your ignorance you are forgetting that not all Jews are Zionists however all Zionists are Jews…

The problem Muslims have is not with Jews…It is with Zionists…The media has tried to paint this problem with a broad brush and tried to present this whole scenario as a Muslim vs. Jew thing and this fight as an anti-semite thing…

Unfortunately, ill-informed people like yourself fell hook, line and sinker into this trap and are calling it a Jew vs. Muslim conflict…

For the record and the future, it’s not…

Lajawab · April 20, 2006, 7:23pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

If your post is any indication of you understanding conflicts, please don’t do anything…You’ll end up ravelling more than unravelling…

TUMS · April 20, 2006, 7:42pm

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

I have no problems whatsoever with Jews or even ordinary Israelis. I despise fanatic Israelis as much as I despise fanatic Arabs/Asians. Religion is religion, you cannot change anyone's beliefs by being a bully or stupid cartoons or propoganda.

mercenary2k · April 21, 2006, 12:52am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

Good for you....

Now there is an educated and mature statement

Israelis, most of them are quite left wing. Nearly 70-80% define themselves as liberals.

Now if Hamas or the other palestinian terrorists were smart, they won't send suicide bombers into Israel but instead target Israeli soldiers

Look at Hezbollah, it targetted Israeli soldiers in its 18 year war, and Israeli public opinion to continue to occupy southern lebanon eroded and Israel withdrew

But typical of Arabs, they continue to target Israeli civilians prompting Israel to respond and pushing the Israeli public opinion to a more right wing stance towards the Palestinians

Captain1 · April 21, 2006, 1:01am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

I am myself against suicide bombing, esp against civilians. But honestly, do you think if Hamas was targetting soldiers only then Israel won't retaliate the way it does now (bombing, missiles etc.)?

mercenary2k · April 21, 2006, 2:37am

Re: History of Muslim-Jewish relations

No, Israel will retaliate

but the key is the israeli public

if they see that only soldiers are being targetted, their views towards the occupation will change

just like it did when israel withdrew from southern lebanon in may 2000