Hinduism ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: Hinduism ?

Dear queer, I do not deny your right to define hindusim as you understand it but I would be interested to know the basis for your definition of hindusim and how you define it because by your definition of hinduism it may have something to do with my right of well being.

It would be good for each and everyone of us to know that nothing belongs to anyone person or even a community. All belongs to God and whole of humanity. Whoever says or does what is beneficial for mankind is saying or doing the proper thing and whoever is saying or doing anything that brings harm and destruction to humanity is not saying or doing the proper thing. It matters not what anyone claims to be because proof of the pudding is in the eating at the end of the day.

If a person claims to be a hindu and uses hinduism to create harmful and destructive divisions then others must intervene and let not this happen. This principle must be held true no matter who claims to believe what and who acts out that belief. It is because we mind our business regarding each other that is why we do not bother with keeping each other on the right course of action and the result is what we all can see all around the world. It is therefore time we all realised our rights and responsibilities towards each other's well being. If we do not accept this foundational precept then we are not even human beings let alone religious of any kind.

We all have to be human beings before we are able to understand and interpret our scriptures and define our religions. As you would agree we are all born knowing nothing and due to our brains and senses and body mechanisms are able to know the world all around us though our interactions within our environments. Once we have become self aware only then we can look forward to become aware of rest of things and only after that we may have come to realise that we need more information about ourselves than we already have gained. This is where comes in religious stuff. So long as we remain as we were born ie ignorant we are not any better than animals regardless which religion we profess or follow or support by word alone or by deeds as well.

You are right that hindu scriptures are not revealed scriptures but if you read what I wrote you will see my claim is that they do have information that is revealed information. It could not have come in to the scriptures just by personal thinking. Where did these scriptures get this information would be my inquiry? What you call Abrahamic faiths that is neither here nor there because islam is not Abrahamic faith but a universal truth. This truth does not originate from Muhammad because he was final messenger from God and Abraham is only one of the messengers somewhere in the middle because according to the quran there came messengers from God even before him.

The quranic definition of God is creator and sustainer of all that exists. If that is the God we all believe in then that God is a universal God. It matters not what we call him because all beautiful names are his names according to the quran. On this basis whatever religion you belong to you are follower of that one God alone. Therefore all religions and scriptures have to have something common between them. This is why they all have something to do with each and everyone of us.

If we all belong to same God and we are all human beings then harmful and destructive divisions are unacceptable. However to unite we need some goal and some terms and conditions that are acceptable to all of us and that is where quran plays foundational role. For example, the quran sets a goal for humanity as a whole and that goal is islam=peace. No religion is acceptable that opposes this goal for humanity. In order to accomplish peace the quran sets out some terms and conditions eg freedom of individual from slavery of any other individual, justice and fairness for all and brotherhood of mankind based upon compassion. Islam makes it a binding duty that people cooperate for the progress and prosperity of humanity as a whole.

Unless people accept these fundamental principles the quran tells mankind that you cannot live in peace and will continue divisions and wars for as long as you keep going on that path.

So regardless what I claim to be and what you claim to be anyone of us is challenged by the quran to prove it wrong by coming up with some better purpose for life and some better terms and conditions for achieving the set out goal.

The quran is the only book that deals with subject of God and humanity the way it should be dealt with. It is the only book that introduces God to humanity in the very first verse telling the messenger to proclaim the message to follow in the name of Allah, the gracious and the merciful, to whom belongs the sovereignty of the universe because he is the creator and sustainer of the whole universe, the gracious and the merciful.

The progress and prosperity of mankind rest in following the advice of Allah and the proof is the laws that govern the existence and operation of the universe.

The quran does not invite mankind to follow the quran blindly instead it keeps repeating phrases like look at this thing and that thing in order to draw our attention to mechanism, processes and phenomena involved in the natural world in order to tell us that it is wisdom of divine will that is keeping the universe going and if you follow the advice of such a wise one then you too will not only gain freedom from pain and suffering you cause each other but also by conquering the nature you can benefit a lot as a species.

Since divine knowledge is not something new in the quran it has been there right from the very first revelation from God therefore whatever is good in hindu scriptures or for that matter in any other scripture is as valid even today as it was when it became known the very first time.

I hope this helps you understand my way of looking at things.

regards and all the best.

22

Re: Hinduism ?

I heard that hindus believe that everyone human is a born hindu and remains hindu, even if he is practicing some other religion. Is that true?

23

Re: Hinduism ?


Ancient India’s Engineering skills (Documentary) - YouTube

24

Re: Hinduism ?

yes and no

to begin with there is no such thing as hinduism,it was invented during british time

it's just way of life,about other religions also being hindu yes in the end it leads to one same god,even a atheist can be hindu as long as he does good deeds...

infact helping a fellow human beings in need will have greater karma then praying to god and doing nothing to the society,even if the first guy doesn't believe in god...

there is this famous quote manava seva madhava seva

meaning service to fellow human beings is service to madhav (lord krishna)

also in many hindu mythology mother who gave life to you is placed one step above the god

25

Re: Hinduism ?

mughal, your whole post is on islam, no specifics on hinduism. instead of picking on things one by one from your post let me ask you a couple of things.

  1. have you read the rig veda? i'm sure you know this is considered to be the supreme hindu scripture.

  2. can you point out any single line from it which shows that hinduism is a religion from Allah's messengers, etc., in your own words. no youtube videos, no copy pastes.

thanks.

26

Re: Hinduism ?

[Must Watch] Dr Zakir Naik & Ravi Shankar Debate FULL - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MW9M6krEm8&feature=related)

The Big Debate: Islam Vs Hinduism - YouTube

FULL-Similarities Between Hinduism and Islam Dr Zakir Naik - YouTube

Dr. Zakir Naik (Urdu) - Islaam Kay Mutalliq Galat Fahmiyaan (full Lecture) - YouTube

27

Re: Hinduism ?

@TLK My understanding of Hinduism as taught by parents had lot more to do with morality than divinity. When in our muhalla folks used to come to collect funds for Navratri devi puja, my father offered them money on the condition that half of that will be spent cleaning ghar ke pichli gali and not all on dressing Devi in an expensive sari.

He gave 2 rupees every morning to the muslim fakir who passed by our house and he explained Hinduism required to give daan to poor but did not say that it should only be to a Hindu poor.

So my knowledge of Hinduism is all about how to be generous to others and care about others and not a lot about scriptures and vedas etc.

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Re: Hinduism ?

:facepalm:

29

Re: Hinduism ?

Dear queer, I explained islam from my point of view as I understand the scripture of islam so that you become aware of where I am coming from. It will be nice of you if you too explained your stand point in some important detail so that we could see whether we are on the same path where we should be or are we on a collision course and if so why?

Yes I read rig veda some puraanas, some upnishads, ramayna, mahabharat including its gita part etc 40+ years ago so I do not remember much now but as I said I did not read them in their original langauges and as you should know translators can turn black in to white depending upon what they want to achieve from their translations.

I remeber about 24 avetars of vishnu or was it shiva and the final one kaali I think it was. I remember reading about four yugas and millions of years between return of the yugas etc. God incarnations and reincarnations of people till they attain freedom from earthly life and how different castes were created from different parts of body of God etc etc.

Not only I read hindu scriptures but also I read english translation of avesta, old testament and new testament, talmud, guru granth sahib, dasam granth etc. I read these just to see what was difference between different scriptures. At the time I went to various mandirs, temples, gurdawaaras, churches and synagogues etc as well to see what priests made of their scriptures.

I found people very confused about all the religious scriptures. All religious people were running after God as it were and forgetting humanity. It is then I became more interested in finding out about things that matter for humanity rather than God.

For a human God cannot matter if a person has no clean air to breath, no fresh water to drink and no good food to eat and no good shelter for safety or security of life. This is how I came to realise that all claims of spirituality by religious leaders were empty and a way to con the people and basically all these people who gave no importance to worldly life had nothing to do with humanity were actually ignorant people. To me religion meant something good for mankind in the name of God.

I therefore realised that these people misinterpreted their scriptures and misrepresented them in order to get what they wanted rather than guide mankind to a better life that the scriptures promised.

Instead people put the responsibility of better life for mankind on God and robbed and even killed each other for it. Some people took others for their slaves and used and abused them as their God given right.

Anyway it will be better to have your side of the story regarding hinduism and whether you studied hindu scriptures in their original languages or not.

It is because hindu scriptures contain predictions therefore it is unlikely that such information could come from ordinary human beings. I am aware of people who explain them away by telling us these were added in to scriptures later on etc etc.

The quran does not mention whether personalities of hinduism are prophets or not but it does tell us that all nations were sent prophets, so it is unlikely that chinese and indians did not have any prophets from God. Moreover God incarnation concepts would raise thoughts that some how God did communicate to people of india at some point in time. The so claimed God incarnates may well have been divine messengers or so called sages may well have been divine messengers. My major question is, why do people need God if not for living in this world? It is precisely that we do not know how to live properly in this world that we need guidance from on high. The world remains a bad place even after divine advice because humans have ignored the advice. I mean look at amount of knowledge that is available in the world today yet most people still live like animals because they lack interest in learning what they really need to learn and the other due to ignorance and arrogance are busy trying to stop people from gaining access to knowledge. All this is deliberately done by people to each other.

So even though God is playing his part we people are not playing our part. The result is the world that we have as we can see it. According to quran Allah provided people all they will ever need but it is left up to people to learn things and do them to make the ends meet.

There is a concept of divine kingdom in all religions but people are waiting for someone else to come and make the world a better place for them instead of people getting up and doing things in such away that they end up making their world a better world.

Unless we stop our isolation from each other and get involved with each other constructively our world will remain the hell hole of hate and destruction we have turned it in to. Therefore we must come together if we want to remove ills from our human society. However whenever we come together the main question will always be for what purpose and under what terns and conditions. This is the question whose answer we find in the quran.

It is therefore not a question of whether one is hindu or muslim or whatever but whether one has the goal, the plan for course of actions or road map to achieve the needed goal. So it a matter of having or not having the program for a successful life of human community as a whole. The quran is full of information about rise and fall of nations. This is the main reason it brings to our attention ancient stories so that we could learn from those lessons and benefit accordingly.

So it is all a question of whether we are one or not because united we stand and divided we fall. Finally a religion has to be for the benefit of mankind therefore has to be a very useful thing for its betterment, if not then people are better without it. The same is true about fight between secularism and religion ie either both have to be beneficial or that which is harmful and destructive for mankind has to go. If both are found equally evil then both should go and some new way of life must be brought in that leads humanity in the proper direction. This is why wrong interpretations of any religion must be looked at before we throw away the baby with the bath tub.

regards and all the best.

30

Re: Hinduism ?

Well it depends on what you call a hindu. Every one on this indian subcontinent is a hindu in one sense and soon the entire world is also become like that.

I think the reason your question arises is because in hinduism there is nothing like baptism etc which makes a person christian etc.

31

Re: Hinduism ?

Yes, that would have been my next question is that why there is no concept of preaching? There is no such thing as converted hindu, if I understand it correctly. Right?

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Re: Hinduism ?

and this is what i have a problem with. why would you start talking about islam on a thread about hinduism?

if i understand your logic and reasoning correctly, your claim that hinduism is a corruption of some prophets messages is based purely from islamic scripture, and not from any specific detail you can point out from hindu scripture. but you agree that even in islamic scripture, you arent able to pinpoint anything specific about these prophets you claim were sent to india, but you would like to guess that hindu sages and incarnations were prophets.

i hope you are able to understand that islamic scripture holds no value to anyone who is not a muslim. and hence, these kind of claims while may be okay among muslims, are pretty offensive to hindus.

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Re: Hinduism ?

There is a tradition reported from the Holy Prophet (sa) which speaks of an Indian prophet by name. In his words:

  • There was a prophet of God in India who was dark in colour and his name was Kahan.[SUP]1

[/SUP]

Now anyone acquainted with the history of Indian religions would immediately connect this description to Lord Krishna, who is invariably described in the Hindu literature as being dark of complexion. Also, the title Kanhaya is added to his name Krishna. Kanhaya contains the same consonants K,N,H as does the name Kahan – in no way an insignificant similarity. But whether any non-Arab prophet was mentioned by name or not is only an academic discussion. There is no denying the fact that the Holy Quran makes it incumbent on every Muslim not only to believe in all the prophets, but it also clearly informs us that in every region of the world and in every age, God did raise messengers and prophets.

Source: “Taarikh-i-Hamdaan Dailami” Baab-ul-Kaaf. See Pocket book p: 854 by Malik Abdur Rehman Khadim 6th edition Published in 1952.

Similarly, there are many references in Hindu scriptures regarding the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as follows:
O people! listen to these words with reverence. A very praise-worthy person will appear among the people. He will accept him from among 60090 enemies. His means of transport would be 20 camels . His name will soar high and then return. This great Rishi will have 100 gold coins, 10 pearl necklaces, 300 Arab horses and 10,000 cows.
(Athra Ved Kantam 20-127, 70-1-3)
Here many characteristics of the Holy Prophet[SUP]SAW[/SUP] have been mentioned . The Promised Rishi is called praiseworthy. The word Muhammad itself means worthy of praise. He and his companions used camels as means of transport whereas for the Rishis of India, the use of camel is forbidden (Manu Smrithi 5:8). When the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, appeared in Arabia, the population of the Arabs was stated as a little more than 60,000. The entire population had become his enemies. Almighty God protected him against his enemies.

A spiritual reformer will come from a foreign land (outside Bharat) with his disciples (companions). His name will be Mahamad (Muhammad). He will dwell in a desert.
(Bhavisyath Purana 3:5-8)

Here the name of the spiritual reformer is clearly given as Muhammad. Generally in the Vedas all countries outside Bharat are referred to as Mlech. The foreign land is said to be in a desert. Here the Holy Prophet’s companions are especially mentioned. Perhaps there is hardly any other prophet who had so many companions who had moulded their lives in the manner of their prophet. Maharishi Vyas Muni has mentioned the following qualities of this Muhammad Rishi and his followers:His followers will perform circumcision. They will not keep their hair in the form of Choti as the Brahmans do. They will keep beard. They will bring about a revolution. They will call with a loud voice (i.e., instead of using a bell to call the people for prayer, they will call people to prayer in a loud voice by ‘Azan’). They will eat meat of animals other than that of swine. They will attain purity through Jihad (fighting in the cause of Allah). Their civilization will be called Muslay (Muslim).
(Bhavishyat Puran Vol. 3 verse:3)
Without any interpretation, all these characteristics agree completely with the characteristics of the Holy Prophet of Islam [SUP]SAW[/SUP] and his followers. In short, all the prophecies of the divine books of the Hindu religion have been fulfilled in the person of the Holy Prophet of Islam.

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Re: Hinduism ?

well i can't talk about the islamic scriptures that consider krishna to be a messenger of Allah (but if muslims thinks krishna is one of their prophets, perhaps they should talk about this more lol).

what i can talk about with certainty are your references from the hindu scriptures.

[QUOTE]
Similarly, there are many references in Hindu scriptures regarding the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as follows:
O people! listen to these words with reverence. A very praise-worthy person will appear among the people. He will accept him from among 60090 enemies. His means of transport would be 20 camels . His name will soar high and then return. This great Rishi will have 100 gold coins, 10 pearl necklaces, 300 Arab horses and 10,000 cows.
(Athra Ved Kantam 20-127, 70-1-3)
[/QUOTE]

Firstly, what is Athra Ved Kantam? do you mean atharva veda? just to set the context, atharva veda is a collection of assorted rituals and ceremonies, most of which would make the concept of tawheed weep. but here is the actual hymn from it. it is called the kuntapa hymn.

[QUOTE]

  1. Listen, ye folks, to this: (a song) in praise of a hero shall be sung! Six thousand and ninety (cows) did we get (when we were) with Kaurama among the Rusamas,−−
  2. Whose twice ten buffaloes move right along, touether with their cows; the height of his chariot just misses the heaven which recedes from its touch.
  3. This one (Kaurama) presented the seer with a hundred jewels, ten chaplets, three hundred steeds, and ten thousand cattle. [/QUOTE]

notice any difference in the actual verse and the one you pasted? :)

and as for the ones from "bhavishyat purana", this is all i will say.

[QUOTE]
Maharishi Vyas Muni has mentioned the following qualities of this Muhammad Rishi and his followers:
His followers will perform circumcision. They will not keep their hair in the form of Choti as the Brahmans do. They will keep beard. They will bring about a revolution. They will call with a loud voice (i.e., instead of using a bell to call the people for prayer, they will call people to prayer in a loud voice by 'Azan'). They will eat meat of animals other than that of swine. They will attain purity through Jihad (fighting in the cause of Allah). Their civilization will be called Muslay (Muslim).
(Bhavishyat Puran Vol. 3 verse:3)
[/QUOTE]

lawl

now i think it is the turn of even muslims to be offended by the claims made. too many things here that are plain wrong but i'll just point out the most obvious one - the original sanskrit verse starts off like this.

[QUOTE]
इशाज्ञया करिष्यामि पैशाचं धर्मदारुणम् ॥

[/QUOTE]

eeshagyaa krinyaami paishaach dharma-daarunam.

paishaach = diabolic

translates into "i'm going to start a diabolic faith". the kaur or someone else whose sanskrit is better can perhaps confirm this is what the verse says.

i don't know why anyone picked this verse to associate with what you are trying to claim. but it serves quite the opposite purpose.

35

Re: Hinduism ?

To queer's point, the original question was asking:

And did not ask whether Muslims think Hindus believe in oneness of God.

If y'all want to discuss whether Hindu deities are Muslim prophets or what do Muslims believe Hindus believe about the oneness of God - that is a separate discussion and should be framed accordingly.

36

Re: Hinduism ?

**Allah in Vedas and Quran

**
Holy Book Vedas and Holy Book Quran of Muslims explains about the same God Eshwar Parmatma
Allah. Just read the following few enclosed verses, while there are many more:

1.All the praise is to the Creator of this world. Rig Ved 1‐81‐5
Holy Quran 1:2, All Praise to Allah! Lord Creator of all the worlds

2.He is Bestower and Merciful. Rig Ved 1‐34‐3
Holy Quran 1:3, The Most Kind – the Ever Merciful

3.He is the Greatest Owner of the earth and heavens, He the Eshwar shall help us. Rig Ved 1‐100‐1
Holy Quran 2:107, Know you not that to Allah belongs the Kingdom of heavens and the earth and that
beside Allah you have not any friend or helper?

4.Parmatma creates all the Parja. Uther Ved 1‐19‐7
Holy Quran 6:101, And He has created everything.

5.His replica (Murti) cannot be made. Yejer Ved 3‐32
Holy Quran 42:11 There is nothing like Him

6.Creator of World, He is in the east, West, Above and Below every where. Rig Ved 14‐36‐10
Holy Quran 2:115, So in whichever direction you turn your face there is the presence of Allah. Verily
Allah is Embracing (in His Mercy) and All Knowing

7.You are closest to us and You are our Guardian. Rig Ved 1‐24‐5
Holy Quran 50:16, And We are closer to him than even his jugular vein.

  1. “Ekam evadvitiyam”
    “He is One only without a second.”
    [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1

  2. “Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.”
    “Of Him there are neither parents nor lord.”
    [Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2

  3. “Na tasya pratima asti”
    “There is no likeness of Him.”
    [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3

  4. “Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam.”
    “His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye.”
    [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4

  5. “shudhama poapvidham”
    “He is bodyless and pure.”
    [Yajurveda 40:8]

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Re: Hinduism ?

here is the real rig veda verse 1-81. this is a verse dedicated to the hindu god Indra.

[QUOTE]
1. THE men have lifted Indra up, the Vṛtra slayer, to joy and strength:
Him, verily, we invocate in battles whether great or small: be he our aid in deeds of might.
2 Thou, Hero, art a warrior, thou art giver of abundant spoil.
Strengthening e’en the feeble, thou aidest the sacrificer, thou givest the offerer ample wealth.
3 When war and battles are on foot, booty is laid before the bold.
Yoke thou thy wildly-rushing Bays. Whom wilt thou slay and whom enrich? Do thou, O Indra, make us rich.
4 Mighty through wisdom, as he lists, terrible, he hath waxed in strength.
Lord of Bay Steeds, strong-jawed, sublime, he in joined hands for glory's sake hath grasped his iron thunderbolt.
5 He filled the earthly atmosphere and pressed against the lights in heaven.
None like thee ever hath been born, none, Indra, will be born like thee. Thou hast waxed mighty over all.
6 May he who to the offerer gives the foeman's man-sustaining food,
May Indra lend his aid to us. Deal forth—abundant is thy wealth—that in thy bounty I may share.
7 He, righteous-hearted, at each time of rapture gives us herds of kine.
Gather in both thy hands for us treasures of many hundred sorts. Sharpen thou us, and bring us wealth.
8 Refresh thee, Hero, with the juice outpoured for bounty and for strength.
We know thee Lord of ample store, to thee have sent our hearts' desires: be therefore our Protector thou.
9 These people, Indra, keep for thee all that is worthy of thy choice.
Discover thou, as Lord, the wealth of men who offer up no gifts: bring thou to us this wealth of theirs.
[/QUOTE]

not even close to what you claim. perhaps you can explain why they are so different before we move onto further copy-pastes.

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Re: Hinduism ?

Peace All,

[note]Please be noted that this thread is about the awareness of 'Hinduism', Hindu's believe in oneness of God, their beliefs and how they differ from Islam?[/note]

Therefore members may describe their POV coming from Hinduism towards Islam and NOT its vice-versa. Disrespecting to any other belief and showing hateful remarks will be dealth strictly. Once again please avoid.

39

Re: Hinduism ?

Dear queer, my point is very simple, you explain from your point of view what hinduism is and why do you follow it if you do? Or how does it benefit or harm humanity in your view and whether that view stands scrutiny or not? This is why I explained islam as I understand it and also explained how it benefits or harms humanity.

The reason I think religions need to be looked at this way is because of international crisis that are caused in the name of scriptures and their followers. You know what hindus are doing to others in india and obviously you are aware of what muslims are doing to others and so on and so forth.

To me it matters if people divide each other on harmful and destructive basis therefore I want to get rid of such divisions and that is not by force of arms but through force of reason.

To me beliefs and actions of people matter because people could be believing in wrong ideas and if they act on those wrong ideas then they are going to cause a lot of harm and destruction. If possible through constructive brotherly dialogue we can persuade each other away from what we might think is wrong.

I do not want people to hide behind baseless ideas and keep on fighting over them like animals. This is why regardless you are hindu or muslims or christian or whatever, what is your stand point and why becomes as important as about me or anyone else. Just thinking my religion or scripture or belief or action is up to me is not fine if it will lead to harm and destruction of others.

So you can see that beliefs and actions cannot be personal because the whole humanity is interlinked inseparably. It is like sea-saw effect that if you do anything it has implications for me and if I do anything that has implications for you. We cannot live in isolation from each other therefore we have duty to keep each other right. It is better if we put things right in time if we see anything wrong before bad things overwhelm us and we end up harmed or destroyed.

There is a false notion that religion can be isolated from state affairs. It is because religious people always try their best to act out their religious beliefs therefore all states are suffering because of this. On the contrary if we could unite on some basis then such things could be ended. By trying to keep alive useless ideas and beliefs we are actually keeping alive troubles for later.

I hope this explains my point as to why I want to know what hinduism is from your point of view. This is will help us see how hinduism should be treated. Even if hinduism is nonrevealed religion or even if it is just myths, the point is are these myths beneficial for people or harmful? If they benefit then people should hold on to them other wise people should be helped to let them go. In case of letting go people will need a lot of help.

The reason we need to look at our beliefs and actions like this is because we should not be held prisoners by our baseless beliefs or we are bound to remain stagnant or may even regress as a people or yet worse may end up harming and destroying each other. This is how we can benefit a great deal from mutual interfaith dialogues.

Our brotherly interaction can help us become refined in reason and that is how we can draw each others attention to points that may be harmful and so we can help each other remove problems from among us one by one.

This is not about converting each other but about convincing each other about our weaknesses and strengths and once we understand ourselves and others better there is a good chance that we will end up as one people on a basis that is better than what we already had that divided us.

So please go ahead and share you ideas about hinduism as you understand.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Hinduism ?

@queer are not vedas revealed by brahma?