Re: Higher Education Commission
Another gift of dakoo democracy.
Re: Higher Education Commission
AQ Khan talked a lot more besides PhD program.
Which post? post no.?
But is the market flooded?
Loan in itself is not a problem. Problem is careless corrupt usage of that loan.
Loan well spent can pay for itself. The conditions set for this loan were not tough as well.
Reason HEC is being dissolved is not this loan or careless useless spending. Reasons are political.
About this loan:
http://www.voice.pk/currentaffairs/hec-devolution-and-world-bank-loan/
The loan that has been committed by the WB is called the International Development Association (IDA), which is given to the poorest and **most sought after by many developing countries.
**
For the tertiary education project, 110 million dollars of the IDA credit would carry a 0.75 per cent service charge fee, maximum commitment charges at 0.5 per cent, a 10-year grace period, and maturity of 35 years.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/01/09/wb-to-give-300m-loan-to-hec-leghari.html
It would also enable the commission to carry out research and manpower and infrastructure developments of universities, Mr Leghari said.
"Investment on education is like making diamond from coal,” he added.
He said that recurring grant to the UET in year 2006-07 was Rs125 million while in years 2010-11 it was Rs138.85 million.
The devolution of the Higher Education Commission (HEC) has threatened a whopping $550 million (Rs47 billion) in foreign assistance to the HEC, said a news report.
The USAID has hinted to ke**ep on hold the committed $250 million assistance under the Kerry-Lugar Act to establish three centres of excellence **besides pursuing certain other potential goals for higher education development in Pakistan
Re: Higher Education Commission
#7 and 12
I think theres enough. Its performed a useful function in seeding a scientific community. Time to focus on other priorities.
So the whole complaint of the money being diverted to pockets isnt really correct is it. If it was funded by a loan, with the dissolution of the program the funding goes too.
HEC is almost the equivalent of scientific prestige projects. Like building motorways when you really need decent public transport.
Re: Higher Education Commission
7 and #12
Creating more schools? Sure. But not at the expense of higher education.
Just making primary school literates won't take us anywhere.
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I think theres enough.
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Based on what do you think that we don't need any more PhD's? Any reference?
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So the whole complaint of the money being diverted to pockets isnt really correct is it. If it was funded by a loan, with the dissolution of the program the funding goes too.
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It was being funded by loan primarily because government had refused to support it. But funding by loan is not the reason HEC is being dissolved. That's a non issue.
The output from these loans would have paid the loans itself. This is why many developing countries were after this loan.
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HEC is almost the equivalent of scientific prestige projects. Like building motorways when you really need decent public transport.
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I guess it really is a difference of approach. I think motorways are very critical for the country as well. That's one good idea Nawaz Sharif had (even though execution was abysmal).
Re: Higher Education Commission
Besides world bank loan, HEC was also going to get $550 million in USAID from Kerry-Lugar bill as well, which is obviously not a loan.
Re: Higher Education Commission
Please do read what wiki quotes about HEC’s achievements in the last decade.
If higher education is such a pointless exercise then why was the world praising Pakistan? Why did some Indians feel threatened?
“Praise of Higher Education Reforms”
In an article entitled “Pak Threat to Indian Science” published in the leading daily newspaper Hindustan Times, India, it has been reported that Prof. C.N.R. Rao, Chairman of the Indian Prime Minister’s Scientific Advisory Council made a presentation to the Indian Prime Minister at the rapid progress made by Pakistan in the higher education sector under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman, Chairman, Higher Education Commission. It was reported that as result of the reforms brought about in Pakistan " Pakistan may soon join China in giving India serious competition in science".
“Achievements”
(d) During the 56 year period (1947–2003) not a single Pakistani university could be ranked among the top 600 universities in the world. Today 5 of Pakistani universities are in this category with the National University of Science and Technology standing at a very respectable number 350.
Re: Higher Education Commission
Creating more schools? Sure. But not at the expense of higher education. Just making primary school literates won't take us anywhere.
I guess it really is a difference of approach. I think motorways are very critical for the country as well. That's one good idea Nawaz Sharif had (even though execution was abysmal).
With respect to tradeoffs, my position is, if I ran the education policy for the country, and someone gave me a pool of money to play with, and came up with the HEC idea, would I think its a good one? With due respect to the immense value returning HEC students provide to our universities, I would still say no. We need to invest most of the money budgeted for education into our schools and colleges.
The question then is well we can always budget more money. Given how bad 'lower education' is there is always more room to spend there. I guess everything the government spends on is a tradeoff against everything else. And yes theres hundreds of things you could cut in order to spend more on primary schooling before you even thought about HEC (military spending, foreign embassies and domestic bureaucracy, perks granted to the ruling class spring to mind), but if we came down that list and somehow someone suggested HEC, I would have to say yes cut money there too. If it costs as much to train 10 phds for 4 years as it does to school a million students for ten years.. given our dire straits in the latter case most definitely.
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Based on what do you think that we don't need any more PhD's? Any reference?
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Based on my personal experience, having studied in Pakistani universities, being a phd candidate myself, and having a social circle of phds. Also, based on the fact that IF more phds are needed, all the universities have to do is to pay teachers higher. Im told last year 40,000 students applied to NUST for 2000 places. There is a demand to get into 'good' universities. But is that motivated by a domestic labour situation where LUMS and GIKI and NUST graduates get paid high enough to validate the money spent on their education, or is it because it is seen as a way to advance along a career eventually outside Pakistan? From the perspective of someone designing policy for Pakistan, I would question whether there really is a genuine demand in the pakistani market for more high quality graduates in certain limited domains (CS, EE, Business mainly). If there genuinely was demand, what would happen is what is happening in India: high quality graduates from American universities choosing to return to India because the market demands it. If there was a genuine demand for university professors (demand as opposed to need..) Pakistan wouldnt have to train professors. But the 40,000 who apply to NUST didnt start applying because of HEC, and the number wont go up significantly because there are more phds now.
There are smaller scale ways of boosting the number of Pakistani phds. Spend a year helping graduating kids take the GRE. Students with good GRE scores get into funded phd programs.
I have seen so much abuse of this. People taking the money and not returning. People taking the money, getting their own funding, and having two stipends coming in each month. Especially if you're in America, it is so easy to get funding if you have any amount of research aptitude. I say this as someone who got research funding from 3 different places, after a semester at USC, including an offer to do a Phd in my second semester.
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It was being funded by loan primarily because government had refused to support it.
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Fine, so the money wasnt there. Also I seriously doubt that HEC would have been the authority to generate enough funds to pay it back. The Government of Pakistan would have had to pay the loan back.
Re: Higher Education Commission
If primary education is more important than higher education, and if you think that money should be spent on primary education, then I ask if this money REALLY going to be spent on primary education now that HEC is going to be dissolved?
Come one, we know that dissolving HEC has NOTHING to do with the love of primary education. If HEC's money was to be used for creation of primary schools then this argument would have been justified. But not in this case.
Re: Higher Education Commission
As far as I know, he wont be able to stay because Govt scholars go on J1s, and the US Customs and Immigration does not allow an immediate transfer of status from J1s.
You need a waiver for J1 from govt & that isn't hard if you have connections in Pakistan.
Re: Higher Education Commission
If primary education is more important than higher education, and if you think that money should be spent on primary education, then I ask if this money REALLY going to be spent on primary education now that HEC is going to be dissolved?
Come one, we know that dissolving HEC has NOTHING to do with the love of primary education. If HEC's money was to be used for creation of primary schools then this argument would have been justified. But not in this case.
Go through my posts. I have said more than once that I dont expect any money saved to be spent on lower education. Im giving reasons for why I wouldnt have this program in an ideal world.
Re: Higher Education Commission
Well, no point discussing this personal argument of yours here then. It has nothing to do with dissolution of HEC.
HEC gives a chance to Pak to have high quality higher education. It's a non issue.
Re: Higher Education Commission
Nice to see PMLN supporting HEC.
They seem to understand the importance of this institution.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\04\06\story_6-4-2011_pg7_3
The Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) on Tuesday demanded the government to stop the devolution of Higher Education Commission (HEC) to provinces
“Devolution of the HEC to provinces will affect the future of thousands of PhD scholars and researchers who are presently studying and doing research work in the country and abroad,” PML-N Secretary Information Ahsan Iqbal said.
During the last eight to nine years, Ahsan Iqbal said,** the HEC had produced quality manpower required in the industrial sector of the country, which was considered a backbone of the national economy. It provided the world class workforce to the industrial sector, bringing it at par with international standards**, he added. “Today’s economy is knowledge driven and there is need to produce educated and skilled workforce matching the needs of industrial sector,” he said. app
Re: Higher Education Commission
I love to see people of Pakistan electing those morons time and time again...just love to see suffer them... :D
Re: Higher Education Commission
A ridiculous and disgraceful decision indeed! While there are a lot of improvements that the HEC could have done with, dissolution was not the answer.
Why can’t we build upon initiatives to improve them over time rather than disbanding efforts out of political spite.
Re: Higher Education Commission
This is excellent move, na rahay ga baans na bajay gi bansuri, just like waderas/jagirdars/sardars don’t want their people to get educated the same mentality is shown here, trash higher education :k:
I remember in 2nd stint of Benazir S&T scholarships were trashed for using funds for better cause, what else would be a better cause then feeding cashews/nuts to horses?
Re: Higher Education Commission
بہت سی اخباری رپورٹس ميں يہ دعوی کيا گيا ہے کہ يو ايس اے آئ ڈی نے ہائر ايجوکيشن کميشن (ايچ ای سی) کو دی جانے والی 250 ملين ڈالرز کی امداد روک لی ہے۔
يہ رپورٹس بالکل بے بنياد ہيں۔ نہ تو يو ايس اے آئ ڈی نے ہائر ايجوکيشن کميشن (ايچ ای سی) کو دی جانے والی امدادی روک روکی ہے اور نہ ہی اس ضمن ميں اس وقت تک کوئ فیصلہ کيا گيا ہے۔
امريکی حکومت نے يو ايس اے آئ ڈی کے توسط سے ہائر ايجوکيشن کميشن (ايچ ای سی) کو سال 2010 کے ليے مختص کی گئ امدادی رقم فراہم کر دی ہے جو کہ 45 ملين ڈالرز بنتی ہے۔ يو ايس اے آئ ڈی کے تحت مستتقبل کے کسی بھی پروگرام کے ليے امدادی رقم کا تعين اس سال کے آخر ميں اس وقت کيا جاۓ گا جب امريکی کانگريس سال 2011 کے لیے فنڈنگ کی منظوری دے گی۔
يو ايس اے آئ ڈی کا ادارہ ہائر ايجوکيشن کميشن (ايچ ای سی) کے ساتھ مل کر پاکستانی يونيورسٹيوں کی صلاحيتوں ميں اضافے کے ليے کوشاں رہا ہے۔ اس تعاون کا مقصد عالمی معيار کے ماہرين (خاص طور پر سائنس اور ٹيکنالوجی کے ميدان ميں) تيار کرنے ميں حکومت پاکستان کو معاونت فراہم کرنا ہے تا کہ يہ ماہرين پاکستان کی معاشی اور معاشرتی ترقی ميں اپنا فعال کردار ادا کر سکيں۔ اس کے علاوہ يو ايس اے آئ ڈی کا ادارہ ميرٹ اور ضرورت کی بنياد پر ہائر ايجوکيشن کميشن (ايچ ای سی) کے توسط سے ملک کے اندر اعلی تعليم کے حصول کے ليے سکالرشپس بھی فراہم کرتا ہے۔
ذوالفقار – ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/USUrduDigitalOutreach/122365134490320?v=wall
Re: Higher Education Commission
I think...they want to dissolve HEC...because it was involved in sorting out the fake and not fake degrees of the elected people... :D
Re: Higher Education Commission
^ Exactly.
This is a payback to HEC from people's representatives.
Re: Higher Education Commission
HEC may have its faults but it did have a net positive effect. There is finally a standard for graduate degrees, they must be recognised by HEC. No more degrees being passed out at galli mohalla colleges. And finally focus is shifting from a two year bachelors to a proper four year bachelors (16 years of education). HEC definitely played a role in improving the overall state of higher education here and for that, it deserves to stay. No one denies the need for investment into primary education, if only the government had the will to bring about a change. They certainly have the means for it with or without the HEC.
Re: Higher Education Commission
Dr. Hoodbhoy’s been a staunch opponent of the HEC, but that’s just because he hated Dr. Atta’s guts… Here’s the latest from him… He’s taken a more balanced approach.