Changez:
Again, you continue to evade and ignore the simple fact that the war on Iraq was also justified on the basis of US charges that Iraq had WMD infrastructure including MOBILE WMD LABS. Don't you remember Powell showing his charts and pictures of those Mobile Labs? Iraq denied this and failed to disclose the existence of the labs. We found them. They existed. And they were not made to bake cookies were they?
We've now found the labs because they could not be buried beside a river. Can you supply any rational reason why Iraq would have Mobile WMD Labs if it did not use them to manufacture WMD or intend to use them for WMD?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Give me a few months of warnings and I would clean up too...those who Bash the U.S. for going into Iraq would be bashing the U.S. if WMD were/are found in Iraq, that fact wouldn't change their resentment towards the U.S. Anyways weapons are still being found, 30 missiles in the last few days. We’ll see if any WMD come up or not in the next few months. But like I said, that doesn't really matter to those who see the U.S. as a villian, does it?
[/QUOTE]
Well if they were cleaned up then why did you go in. Why did your forces terrorise a whole nation? What happened to the irrefutable evidence which Powell was parading in front of the UN *days * before the illegal invasion. even if the weapons were removed surely some chemical residue would have been left for US to show the world. You have found nothing, zilch.
Admit it, it was nothing more than an exercise to terrorise the Iraqi nation.
US has made it self a villain by practising terrorism on people of other nations.
So what you and my voice are saying that it is ok to murder over 1700 innocent people in order that you can lay your hands on two mobile WMD labs which were not producing any weapons anyway. Hurrah for the American nation. What great ideals, what high standards.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by underthedome: *
Terrorized a nation by over throwing a regime that killed hundreds of thousands, pretty ******ly wasn't it.
[/QUOTE]
As usual ignoring the main arguments, and yes your trigger happy soldiers did terrorise the nation, remember shock and awe, it may have been fireworks to average american sitting in the comfort of their sofas and laughing and enjoying the scene, but not to the people of Baghdad as they were teh ones being butchered.
**Originally posted by myvoice: *
Changez:
Again, you continue to evade and ignore the simple fact that the war on Iraq was also justified on the basis of US charges that Iraq had WMD infrastructure including MOBILE WMD LABS. Don't you remember Powell showing his charts and pictures of those Mobile Labs? Iraq denied this and failed to disclose the existence of the labs. We found them. They existed. And they were not made to bake cookies were they?....*
US showed Saddam mobile labs and he denied it... Saddam was b@st@rd liar
US showed told world of irrefutable and solid evidences but couldn't prove it.... US is???
Our American counterparts must refrain from throwing 'red herrings' each time they are challenged.
How can you keep jumping from WMD to torture to rape to stealing to support to liberation to terror to WMD to torture to rape to stealing recurring recurring?
Stick to the original reason for going in.
The fact is no weapons have been found. Period.
Even the highest ranking Administeration are admitting this.
America tortures and rapes it citizens, but do you see any country invading the US. No.
I'll make my position very clear. I've never admired or liked America and never will. No apologies.
US was ranting and raving about how dangerous these WMD are for it's security and this and that and this and that operating a fear mongering tactic. It worked. Even Guppies on this Forum are still blinded by the lies and fear.
I suppose the old saying is true. Like leader like follower. Blind lead the blind.
There were never any WMD and there never will be.
Don't complain to us, complain to Rumsfield and co!
The fact remains chosen, the greater injustice would have been to remain inactive and allow the Saddam regime to further suppress the Iraqis and allow the regime to remain a threat. The War killed at least 1700 innocent Iraqis, inaction would have killed more. Perhapes your pointing to the wrong bad guy.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
I'll make my position very clear. I've never admired or liked America and never will. No apologies...
[/quote]
Gee, thanks for clearing that up for us, but I think your previous 1000+ biased and hateful posts had already made that point.
[quote]
There were never any WMD and there never will be.
[/QUOTE]
Your hatred for America obviously taints your common sense. After 4 years of lying to UN and hiding their biological weapons, Iraq admitted in 1995 (after being caught) to posessing hundreds of tons of bio-weapons. Before accusing Americans of blindly following their government, please assess your own biases and hatred that cause you to blindly believe anything that goes against American interests.
Not permitted. Violated the terms of the cease fire and violated UN resolutions. Also, was hidden and not disclosed. More UN violations. A very, very good reason for the invasion of Iraq.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Now you don't dodge the question:
strange, that teh brilliant American satellite's which provided them with irrefuatable evidence of WMD's before the war could not pick up the burial places.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
strange, that teh brilliant American satellite's which provided them with irrefuatable evidence of WMD's before the war could not pick up the burial places.
Strange but true.
[/QUOTE]
Not true and not strange. Why don't you at least start from "real facts" before making your anti-Bush diatribes? No part of the US presentation to the UN provided irrefutable evidence of the location of WMD. The presentation focused on clean up operations, intercepted conversations, first hand accounts of deserters (including claims of the existence of Mobile WMD Labs which Iraq denied but which have been found), etc.
Read your great wise leaders speeches before the war, instead of trying to defend his indefensible actions in Iraq.
Strange but true that the burial sites cannot be found when you are in there, but before the war your administration was sure about the existence of these WMD’s due to their sources. Time to admit you were wrong about them and that your leaders lied. That is the truth not a diatribe.
Find the WMD’s and prove the world wrong.
Here is another laughable attempt by yet another Bush administration guy to redfine the reasons why they went to war. The day is not far when they will say that they never mentioned WMD’s as the reason for going to war and it was an Al Qaeeda plot to discredit America.
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The U.S. decision to stress the threat posed by Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction above all others was taken for “bureaucratic” reasons to justify the war, U.S. Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz says.
Wolfowitz, seen as one of the most hawkish figures in the Bush administration’s policy on Iraq, said on Wednesday President Saddam Hussein’s alleged cache of chemical, biological and possibly nuclear weapons was merely one of several reasons behind the decision to go to war.
“For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on,” Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in Vanity Fair magazine’s July issue.
No chemical or biological weapons have been found in Iraq despite repeated assertions by President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair before the March 20 invasion that the threat posed by Saddam’s vast stocks of banned weapons warranted a war to eliminate them.
The United Nations and America’s allies were not convinced by the argument that it was justification for a war, which was launched amid protests in many world capitals. Washington’s ties were major allies France and Germany are still strained.
Wolfowitz said another reason for the invasion had been “almost unnoticed but huge” – namely that the ousting of Saddam would allow the United States to remove its troops from Saudi Arabia, where their presence had long been a major al Qaeda grievance.
“Just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door” to a more peaceful Middle East, Wolfowitz was quoted as saying.
The magazine said he made the remarks days before suicide bombings, attributed to al Qaeda, against Western targets in Riyadh and Casablanca two weeks ago that killed 75 people.
The United States announced last month that it was ending military operations in Saudi Arabia, where they have long generated Arab resentment because of their proximity to Islam’s holiest sites.
Wolfowitz’s remarks were released a day after Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, seeking to explain why no weapons of mass destruction had been found, said Iraq may have destroyed them before the U.S.-led invasion.
So now the world knows another reason for the war was “so that they could remove their soldiers from Saudi”. :hehe:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
Read your great wise leaders speeches before the war, instead of trying to defend his indefensible actions in Iraq.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think I need to read them. I heard them. And it would seem to me that you have the obligation to prove your claims. Please find me one administration figure who said the US knew exactly where WMD would be found. The statements were pretty consistent: i.e. Iraq was hiding the WMD from UN inspectors and the world.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
Strange but true that the burial sites cannot be found when you are in there, but before the war your administration was sure about the existence of these WMD's due to their sources. Time to admit you were wrong about them and that your leaders lied. That is the truth not a diatribe.
Find the WMD's and prove the world wrong.
[/QUOTE]
At least you are finally admitting that the WMD are buried. To be sure that something exists is quite different than to be sure of where it is. You continue to forget that it took over 4 years for the first UN inspectors to find the Euphrates River burial site.
I'm content to give my government and my leaders time to thoroughly comb every last inch of Iraq before drawing any final conclusions. You have closed your mind and drawn your conclusion. If and when WMD are found, you will, no doubt, claim they were planted by the US regardless of what the evidence shows. The evidence to date has convinced me that it is more likely than not that there is a burial site somewhere. But my viewpoint is subject to change based upon time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
I'm content to give my government and my leaders time to thoroughly comb every last inch of Iraq before drawing any final conclusions. You have closed your mind and drawn your conclusion. If and when WMD are found, you will, no doubt, claim they were planted by the US regardless of what the evidence shows. The evidence to date has convinced me that it is more likely than not that there is a burial site somewhere. But my viewpoint is subject to change based upon time.
[/QUOTE]
I wonder why you and your trigger happy government were not content to give the UN inspectors the time to thoroughly comb every last inch of Iraq before launching an attack and killing thousands of innocent civilians. What was the hurry and why the complacency now?
As to planted weapons, why dont you remove the doubt and let some intelligent and properly trained people from UN inspect and comb every inch of Iraq and find these WMD's which according to your nation are DEFINITELY hidden there. Then there would be no doubt. Why the reluctance, why the fear, What are you trying to hide?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
I wonder why you and your trigger happy government were not content to give the UN inspectors the time to thoroughly comb every last inch of Iraq before launching an attack and killing thousands of innocent civilians.
[/QUOTE]
Because the UN didn't send tens of thousands of inspectors in. Because the inspectors were compromised and the Iraqis could play cat and mouse forever. Because no inspections by UN personnel could ever be effective while Saddam retained control of the Iraqi regime.
And, by the way, the number of lives of "innocent civilians" that have been saved by the removal of Saddam far exceeds the number who died during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Or, perhaps, do you choose simply to ignore the mass graves being uncovered and the documented torture and murder conducted by the Saddam regime?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
What was the hurry and why the complacency now?
[/QUOTE]
Time was against us then and it is not now.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
As to planted weapons, why dont you remove the doubt and let some intelligent and properly trained people from UN inspect and comb every inch of Iraq and find these WMD's which according to your nation are DEFINITELY hidden there. Then there would be no doubt. Why the reluctance, why the fear, What are you trying to hide?
[/QUOTE]
I'm quite confident that the American contingent doing the work now is both intelligent and properly trained. When and if the burial sites are located, there won't be any doubt. In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is still a dangerous place. A few of our finest are still sacrificing their lives and blood over there on a daily basis. It certainly is not the time to ask the US military to baby sit and try to protect Hansy and his merry men.
I'm quite confident that the American contingent doing the work now is both intelligent and properly trained. When and if the burial sites are located, there won't be any doubt. In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is still a dangerous place. A few of our finest are still sacrificing their lives and blood over there on a daily basis. It certainly is not the time to ask the US military to baby sit and try to protect Hansy and his merry men.
[/QUOTE]
Well the intelligent and properly trained havent found anything yet, have they? If they are intelligent and properly trianed as you state then why have they found nothing to date yet. Absolutely nothing, maybe because there is nothing to find and these fine and intelligent and highly trianed men are wasting their time, or are they busy planting the evidence to find later on?
As for your finest dying, well you chose to attack and start an illegal war, you take the consequences, the Iraqis have every right to kill and rid themselves of unwanted invaders.
Well the intelligent and properly trained havent found anything yet, have they? If they are intelligent and properly trianed as you state then why have they found nothing to date yet.
[/QUOTE]
You must simply choose not listen to anything that doesn't fit with your own neatly preconceived ideas. For the last time, does 4 years mean anything to you? That's how long it took the UN to find the first batch of hidden WMD buried by the Euphrates River. Iraq is not the size of your backyard. The people over there are actually pretty busy doing lots of different things. You think the only thing going on is a bunch of backhoes digging up all of Iraq?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
As for your finest dying, well you chose to attack and start an illegal war, you take the consequences, the Iraqis have every right to kill and rid themselves of unwanted invaders.
[/QUOTE]
We did choose when, where and how to attack in our completely legal war. And yes, we take the consequences. We know the value of our young serviceperson's lives and believe liberty, freedom, and self defense are ideals worth risking such precious life for. You don't like it? Tough. Get used to it. About the only Iraqis trying to kill US soldiers are the very same ones who ripped the tongues out of their fellow citizens and butchered them for not toeing the Baathist line. Praise them and support them all you want. I think it's sick but then again no sicker than your indifference to the deaths of the Iraqi people at the hands of Saddam the butcher.
Now somebody please answer me this? If the US was not absolutely convinced that they would find or face chemical weapons in Iraq, then why did they dress up all those troops in the heat and sandstorms in chemical weapns suits? A nice piece of theatre? People die in those suits in the heat.