had a good time at Guantanamo, says inmate

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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
what did the adult inmates say about their own treatment? or do their words not count?
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Peer Ji, dont you know they dont count. Those word are lies, they are against US and will do anything to spread hatred about US. Why will you want to believe peopel who were held without trials, conviction or proof...they are all terrorists...however, we strongly urge that you believe a 15 year old who does not know what life is all about. Now that is a moment that every american should be proud of. I know I am. Dont stand on the sielines Fraudia...jump in water is fine. Lets send some more people over to Guantanamo bay.

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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Funny thing,

I was on the phone with my frequent flyer plan and thinking about my next vacation. In a toss up between Khandahar, Karachi, and Guantanamo, I would feel safest in Guantanamo. Still checking into the cuisine.

The point is that the headlines screaming TORTURE in the tabloid press were grossly overstated.
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Yeah, guys just believe him. We should believe what 15 year olds tell us and ignore what the adults who were tortured. Afterall they are terrorists. You ask "says who"? Lets see..did'nt we prsoecute and convict them...I am bad we never did, we just decided to put them in there because we felt like. How dare these unconvicted, non-represented, people raise their voice to alarm the world about torture taking place under the supervision of US authorities?

here’s the truth…

Camp Delta (formerly known as camp x-ray) gets 5-star rating

Moscow: The mother of a Russian held at the Guantanamo Bay military prison says her son wants to remain in US captivity rather than face the violence and squalor of jail in Russia.

Amina Khasanova said her son, Aryat Vakhitov, who was sent to Guantanamo Bay from Afghanistan, dreaded the thought of serving a term in one of Russia’s decrepit prisons, where tuberculosis and AIDS are rife and brutality endemic.

“He told me in his last letter that they would be sending him back against his will,” she said. “I haven’t seen him for four or five years but I’m terribly afraid of Russian jails, so much so that even I think he would be better off staying there. Russian jail is worse than hell.”

A Moscow official said this week that he expected the US to send eight Russians home “in the near future to face judicial proceedings”, though it is not clear what charges Mr Vakhitov will face.

Ms Khasanova said her son fled to Afghanistan in 1999, after being pursued by police who accused him of preaching a violently anti-Russian message at a local mosque

She said he was imprisoned and beaten by the Taliban after entering Afghanistan, and only released in late 2001 when the regime was toppled by American forces and their allies.

She had no idea why he ended up in Camp Delta where more than 600 people from 42 countries are being held without trial.

“He has no complaints, and says the food is all right and he is being treated well. He has been in a Russian prison before, and says Guantanamo is like a sanatorium compared to that,” she said.

^^ Yeah that is really a reliable, and trustworthy resource. :slight_smile: Anything else?:yawn:

It's from the The Sydney Morning Herald. It slams Powell in another article.

ahmadjee,

There are lots of open threads where this is debated, so I'll summarize quite a bit. But first let's look at some history of POW's. In World War II the Germans captured over 3.2 million Russian prisoners, and only 600k were repatriated at the end of the war, the rest died in German custody. Japan killed nearly half of the 50,000 POWs in the Battan death march. Most of those, as well as over 20k Chinese prisoners were killed because the japanese used the prisoners for live bayonnet practice. So Guantanamo, in the history of POW's, is some very mild stuff indeed.

Essentially POW's in virtually every instance are detained until the end of the war. In some cases there have been prisoner exchanges. The detaining party, at it's sole discretion may offer anmnesty to those prisoners willing to renounce combat. In many wars it is not unusual for POW's to be held for 6 to 8 years. Check the hanoi hilton, this was commonplace in Vietnam.

Some detainees may have also committed crimes, punishable by their home countries, for participating in foreign wars. Thus some detainees may be repatriated to thier home country to face criminal charges. Afghan prisoners can be removed from the field of battle, but can be returned to the custody of the Afghan government, as the current Afghan governemnt was indeed an ally of the US in the conflict. So the question is, would you rather be in Guantanamo, or in a Norhtern Alliance prison. if the prisoners are returned, and suddenly end up dead, is that responsible? Or further, if the prisoners are returned, and are released by corrupt guards, would htis contribute to peace in Afghanistan?

The Geneva conventions are very specific as to who is entitled to it's protections. Please carefully read the conventions and you will find that mercenaries, those paid to fight who are not citizens of the country, or it's allies are specifically excuded from the protections of the Geneva conventions. Also very specifically adressed in the Geneva conventions, are rules on Uniforms, and using civilians, and civilian places for protection. While decrying all of the civilain casualties, people ignore the fact that many casualties were caused because it was impossible to distinguish fighters from civilians. When you do not wear a uniform, you are not entitled to many protections of the Geneva conventions. This is done for the protection of civilians.

Mercenaries are particualrly frowned upon by international law. Your Jihadi is my mercenary. But encouraging willing combatants to decend into a country to fight a war from all corners of the globe, paid by a terrorist organization, is not to be encouraged. You can bet that the existance of Guantanamo is meant as a sign, as a deterent, that mercenary/jihadi's will be imprisoned for long periods, and will not be entitled to legal process. You may not like it, but my degree of compassion for those who travelled to Afghanistan to fight is pretty thin. Dil may see some guy in traditional Arab clothing in a hood, I see some guy who helped to slaughter entire villages in the war with the Northern Alliance, and who was trained at the same camps where terrorists who attacked my country were trained. Thugs and murderers, justified by a thin veil of religion, are still thugs and murders.

I know many military men. The Pentagon has more military lawyers than you can ever imagine. They have assigned lawyers to almost every corner of the military to assure compliance with the laws of war. The place is crawling with them. Guantanamo is a carefully considered legal balancing act that meets the requirements of the rules, while still making a statement about the fate of Jihadi/fighters.

So what do you really think all these citizens of other countries were doing on the battlefields of Afghanistan? Selling girl scout cookies? Building rural health clinics? Crap. They went to fight and kill. Now they are paying a price.

The US is far less concerned with "anti-Americanism" and the PR effects, than putting a stake in the heart of radical violent Islam, and the exportation of fighters to every confilct brewing in the corner of the world.

Who knew that Guantanamo was the Sheraton in disguise.

>>“They gave me good food with fruit and water for ablutions and prayer,” he said yesterday…"
:konfused: That’s what they’re supposed to do. What was the alternative - to be fed nothing ? That’s nothing ‘special’, that is their right. That is the right of each and every one of the detainees, whether it is a juvenile or an adult.

i would love to hear what the adults have to say about whether or not they are receiving “good food with fruit”. If the conditions at Guantanamo are this positive, the US should allow a Red Cross official to interview a couple dozen of the adults to prepare more reports that enforce this opinion, then allow the Red Cross to publically release these reports.

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I know many military men. The Pentagon has more military lawyers than you can ever imagine. They have assigned lawyers to almost every corner of the military to assure compliance with the laws of war. The place is crawling with them.
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Yeah that is why US GIs are accused of rape wherever they have gone. Also, that is why female officers complain about sexual harrasment...they are doing a fine job.

“Good food and fruit” is a right???

Most of the time, we Americans can’t even get “good food and fruit” in a hospital. The alternative to “good food and fruit” is not “No food.” The alternative is “BAD food and NO fruit.” Instead of real cheese, feed them that product that I call “Almost Cheese.”

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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *

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interesting info Ohio guy...but if this is a war on terrorism, without an end these guys could be kept indefinitly.

amelie,

Yes, and the US could be under attack for the same period. We imprison drug dealers for much longer periods of time.

Kaleem,

I hope everyone who assaulted a US female soldier is convicted and thrown into a US military prison. By the way, Guantanamo is designed to precisely the same standards as what a Us military prisoner would get.

Actually, US miltary prisoners can be forced to hard labor as punishment, which is not allowed in Guantanamo.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Actually, US miltary prisoners can be forced to hard labor as punishment, which is not allowed in Guantanamo.
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My gracious!!! Good food. Peaches and Pears daily. And no hard labor.

That sounds better than my first marriage!!!!

How many oranges do you think the teenagers got per day while Osama was teaching them how much cyanide gas it takes to kill a dog?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by myvoice: *
*
"Good food and fruit" is a right?????

Most of the time, we Americans can't even get "good food and fruit" in a hospital. The alternative to "good food and fruit" is not "No food." The alternative is "BAD food and NO fruit." Instead of real cheese, feed them that product that I call "Almost Cheese."
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**

Yes, i think good food and fruits are a right. i am not talking about imported Swiss cheese, mandarins/pears/plums/grapes served fresh every morning, but i am talking about food and fruits that wouldn't repulse anyone by its expiry date. If there were Americans detained at some military base in Saudi Arabia, i would be the first to cry out if they weren't given good food and fruits as well. It's every prisoner's right.

Regarding the original contents of this thread - when do we hear the statements made by these juveniles, echoed by their adult counterparts who are still detained there?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
If the conditions at Guantanamo are this positive, the US should allow a Red Cross official to interview a couple dozen of the adults to prepare more reports that enforce this opinion, then allow the Red Cross to publically release these reports.
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I would agree with that as well. Just to remind everyone, the Guantanamo detainees are imprisoned by 6-by-8-foot wire cages exposed to the elements. They are forced to kneel on hard rocky surfaces, their hands and feet bound, their eyes covered with blacked-out goggles and their mouths and noses masked so that they cannot talk, listen or even turn their heads. There are also eye witness reports that they are tortured and verbally abused during interrogations which can last up to 18 hours a day.

“One of the detainees had described being taken out and tied to a post and having rubber bullets fired at them. They were being made to kneel in the sun until they collapsed,” he said

US torturing Camp X-ray prisoners - lawyer](http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/10/08/story116469.html) Breaking News.ie

The US military has tortured terrorist suspects held without charge at the Guantanamo Bay military prison, an Australian lawyer representing some of the suspects claimed today US-based Richard Bourke, who has been working for almost two years on behalf of dozens of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, said American military officials were using old-fashioned torture techniques to force confessions out of prisoners.

Bourke said the methods “clearly” fell under the definition of torture under international conventions.“They are engaging in good old-fashioned torture, as people would have understood it in the Dark Ages,” he said. Bourke told ABC radio in Australia that his claims were based on reports leaked by US military personnel and from descriptions by some detainees.

“would agree with that as well. Just to remind everyone, the Guantanamo detainees are imprisoned by 6-by-8-foot wire cages exposed to the elements. They are forced to kneel on hard rocky surfaces, their hands and feet bound, their eyes covered with blacked-out goggles and their mouths and noses masked so that they cannot talk, listen or even turn their heads. There are also eye witness reports that they are tortured and verbally abused during interrogations which can last up to 18 hours a day.”

Dil, you are so melodramatic, and of course wrong. The original camp Delta was temporary. At the end of 2002 a permanent detention facilty was completed. Here are the pictures:

OG, I dont need to be melodramatic about these issues. Just because a second camp has been built means nothing in reality. The issues of torture techniques, of sleep deprivation, of detainees tied up for up to 18 hours being treated like farmyard animals, detainees being beaten up, being denied their BASIC human rights is still there. Housing them in another area has changed nothing.

Let the International Press/NGO's into the camp so that they can see for themselves what the REALITY is !

Dil,

The Red Cross has been visting regularly dude, wake up. The international press is expressly forbidden to visit, as the Geneva conventions prevent the press form photographing or interviewing prisoners. The Red Cross has been forwading letters, and while they have complained about the legalities, they have not complained about the physical accomodations.

Sleep deprivation? Shoot, anything short of electrodes and beatings is OK by me. What do you suppose these same people did to captured Northern Alliance soldiers. Think for a minute about the crimes that these same guys may have committed.

Besides that, Al Sharpton has taken all the available space in the four star hotels, so Guantanamo it is.

OG this is HRW’s recent condemnation of Camp Delta. As for the Red Cross well please read the article in the other thread, they have been highly critical of the Bush Adminstration. US fails to answer ICRC concerns

Guantanamo condemned two years on](BBC NEWS | Americas | Guantanamo condemned two years on) BBC News 11 Jan 04

Human Rights Watch has denounced the US Government for continuing to hold prisoners without charge at its base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Guanatanamo’s first detainees arrived two years ago on Sunday Two years after the detention camp was set up the 660 detainees do not know what their alleged crimes are, the New-York-based group said.

Neither do they know whether they will be ever released or charged, it added. The Bush administration has declared the detainees to be unlawful enemy combatants in its war on terrorism. **The administration says it can continue to hold them without the international legal rights normally accorded to prisoners under the Geneva Conventions until this war is over. Human Rights watch accuses the United States of continuing to ignore international law in its treatment of the detainees. The public still does not know who they are or what they are supposed to have done, it said. **

Most of the detainees were captured more than two years ago during the US led war in Afghanistan. The United States has alleged they are part of the al-Qaeda network. But Human Rights Watch says some of them are probably just civilians and at least three of the detainees are 15 years old or younger. It says an undisclosed number who are 16 or 17 years old are being held with adults at the camp. There has been broad condemnation by international human rights groups, judges and lawyers.

**The US Supreme Court has decided to issue a ruling this year on whether American courts have jurisdiction to hear any appeals filed by the detainees - even though they are foreigners who were captured in a foreign land and are being held on foreign soil. **

Dil,

Were POW's in any war told when they would be released? Most of these people will NOT be charged with ANYTHING. They will be held to the end of the War.

If you tell me when that will be, I'll tell you when they will be released.