Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

[Babuji]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@infiniti

I do not need to elaborate on that.

800 mn Hindus vs. 400 mn Muslims can hardly be called majority. And the rate at which Muslim population has grown in India compared to the other religious groups, even that gap would have shrunk pretty rapidly.

[sal35]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@Babuji

800 mn Hindus vs. 400 mn Muslims can hardly be called majority. And the rate at which Muslim population has grown in India compared to the other religious groups, even that gap would have shrunk pretty rapidly.

In undivided India, muslims constituted around 29% of the population and hindus were around 67% of the population. Today 82% of Indian population is Hindu and 13% of the Indian population is Muslim. As far as population growth of various sigment in India, muslim population growth is marginally higher than Hindus. Another thing is that lower caste Hindus keep on converting to christianity and to a small extent to Islam. I have seen in my own small town where at least one dozen hindu families converted to Islam over a period of two decade purely because they get equal social status which they are deprived of Hindu society. Unless Hindus scrap their caste system and become a casteless society, they would keep on blaming that muslims are growing faster than hindus.

I would like to share one more fact. Even though Indian Law allows muslims to have more than one wife while Hindus are prohibited. But the statistics released by the government few years ago suggested that percentage of Hindus having more than one wife exceeds that of muslims. Even though it's illegal for Hindus but they practice more polygamy than muslims.

[ssingh]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@sal35

I would like to share one more fact. Even though Indian Law allows muslims to have more than one wife while Hindus are prohibited. But the statistics released by the government few years ago suggested that percentage of Hindus having more than one wife exceeds that of muslims. Even though it's illegal for Hindus but they practice more polygamy than muslims.

really?...if this is true, in terms of percentage who is more?.

[Babuji]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@sal35

In undivided India, muslims constituted around 29% of the population and hindus were around 67% of the population. Today 82% of Indian population is Hindu and 13% of the Indian population is Muslim. As far as population growth of various sigment in India, muslim population growth is marginally higher than Hindus. Another thing is that lower caste Hindus keep on converting to christianity and to a small extent to Islam. I have seen in my own small town where at least one dozen hindu families converted to Islam over a period of two decade purely because they get equal social status which they are deprived of Hindu society. Unless Hindus scrap their caste system and become a casteless society, they would keep on blaming that muslims are growing faster than hindus.

I would like to share one more fact. Even though Indian Law allows muslims to have more than one wife while Hindus are prohibited. But the statistics released by the government few years ago suggested that percentage of Hindus having more than one wife exceeds that of muslims. Even though it's illegal for Hindus but they practice more polygamy than muslims.

Dont compare undivided India with present - compare India right after the partition with present, because a big part of the decline from 29% to 13% is migration to Pakistan.

Lagta hai school mein Maths nahin padha hai ?? Tabhi apples aur oranges ko compare ka rahe ho.

[_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@sal35

There is a fundamental difference between the British Raj and today's situation. During British Raj there were classes and it was the era of land lords versus peasants. Modern day India has no such classes. The days of land lords is gone. Now the power lies with the people and not with few bunch of exploititionary royal kings and Jamindars who used to collect taxes from hard working people to feed their British masters.

Do these classes include the inferior 'untouchable' class?

[sal35]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@_Lahore_Ka_Cheetah

Do these classes include the inferior 'untouchable' class?

The era of untouchable practices in India is almost gone. Now untouchables are politically a mighty group. Most of the untouchables in Bihar are now a part of Maoist group and have almost wiped out the power of landlords in the rural area which is yet to happen in Pakistan. I am surprised and shocked to learn that untouchable practices with Hindu lower class is still prevalent in Pakistan. In India if an untouchable approaches court and makes allegations then the accused would get into great trouble. A whooping 25% of govt jobs are reserved for untouchables and tribal people. Now the present govt is threatening to extend this previlage in the private sector too.

[Babuji]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@sal35

The era of untouchable practices in India is almost gone. Now untouchables are politically a mighty group. Most of the untouchables in Bihar are now a part of Maoist group and have almost wiped out the power of landlords in the rural area which is yet to happen in Pakistan. I am surprised and shocked to learn that untouchable practices with Hindu lower class is still prevalent in Pakistan. In India if an untouchable approaches court and makes allegations then the accused would get into great trouble. A whooping 25% of govt jobs are reserved for untouchables and tribal people. Now the present govt is threatening to extend this previlage in the private sector too.

Exactly ! It is the so called upper classes which are 'untouchable' now :)

[Prince_Abbas]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

sal35:

[quote]
A whooping 25% of govt jobs are reserved for untouchables
[/quote]

As you said, the era of untouchable practices in India is almost gone. But then why this quota for untouchables?

[ssingh]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

I dont think this practice of untouchability is completely gone. Even if it has, discrimination as such is there particularly in states like bihar. Besides, these reservations, though i believe it is justified to a certain extent, is nothing but vote bank politics furthered by politicians.

[sal35]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@Prince Abbas

sal35:

As you said, the era of untouchable practices in India is almost gone. But then why this quota for untouchables?

A good question.

The job reservation for untouchables was meant for just ten years to bridge the gap between them and the rest of the population when the Indian constitution was formed. At that time it was never imagined that this noble gesture would back fire. But then untouchables gradually evolved as a mighty political group. Now every political party in India is scared of scrapping this privilage extended to untouchables. Any political party resorting to scrapping this privlilage would virtually committ a political suicide.

[Prince_Abbas]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

You seem to be saying that untouchables are now stomping on the high castes' rights. Is it really so?

I read somewhere that there are plans to actually INCREASE this quota, instead of scrapping it. Why do political parties think this way? What if someone argues that it is because untouchables are still not given enough opportunities by others in the absence of this system?

[sal35]

Re: Golden Era in the Indian Subcontinent

@Prince Abbas

You seem to be saying that untouchables are now stomping on the high castes' rights. Is it really so?

I read somewhere that there are plans to actually INCREASE this quota, instead of scrapping it. Why do political parties think this way? What if someone argues that it is because untouchables are still not given enough opportunities by others in the absence of this system?

Political parties want powers. Since untouchables are the biggest united vote bank of 25% to 35% so every political party wants to get their favour and so every political party wants to do something to get their votes. Muslims constitute 13% of the vote bank and so every political party other than BJP (which itself has 20% of upper caste vote bank by virtue of its opposition to muslims) tries to appease muslims by making promises.

BJP had declared in its election menifesto that it would scrap muslim personal law and special status granted to Kashmir in the constitution (no Indian other than Kashmiris can purchase or sale land in Kashmir and things like that) and wipe out all the privilages granted to muslims under the constitution and bring all the muslims under the common law. But even after gaining power, BJP couldn't do that since it had to ally with other political parties to run the government and other political parties didn't let BJP do that since these political parties didn't want to risk their muslim vote bank. BJP cannot favour muslims since its assured vote bank of upper caste hindus 20% would get evaporated.

Indian politics is quite complex and it's hard to bring any drastic change because of various political factions. The economic change by the govt happened only because the foreign exchange in 1991 had dried upto an extent where India had just 15 days worth of import capacity. Otherwise it would have followed the same socialistic russian economic model.