Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
So you disagree with the Quran and Sunnah.
Maybe I missed it, kindly point me in the right direction by mentioning where the point I was talking about, IS mentioned in Quran.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
Nice work PCG.
Specially post # 37.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
I've found this. These ahadith are not authentic...some of them may be true at some level. (My personal opinion)So Ladies please try to concentrate on positve points instead of other way round.
And still you are defending the cause. Mind you this is the way people namak mirch laga kar story lumbi kartay hein.
Happy to see that you agree something afterall. May Allah bless you.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
JazakAllah Hareem and Sabariya for this excellent thread!
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain1
Its not about necessarily your “job” but atleast respond to question about comments you post, why did you feel that men will be questioned about their women not being hijab’ed?
There are actions which impact people around it, society and there are questions which impact mainly the person who is doing it. Drinking falls under the action which impact people around the person doing it, I’ll stop anyone under my influence, but then again will be QUESTIONED if we don’t stop? Thats what I’m asking. There is a verse regarding “amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar” but then that does applies to population overall not specifically to your family / spouse etc.
KARAKUSH
i believe that greater burden of responsibility lies on men,refrences given before.the right to admonish also explicitly is mentioned in quran and given to men but alongwith the fact that they both have rights over eachother.
it leads me to conclude,purely from an islamic point of view that with greater responsibility comes greater accountability.
one shud start from home with ones family,if one does start sometime.
society and the economic structure has changed in a way that women have become integral part of the economic machinery that runs the country,and although,me including, have our spouses or spouses to be running things equally one does become responsible wen he doesnt tell the woman that her adornment shud be for him only.
as men we endorse all that goes on in society,we r all together responsible r we not.if morality dictates that one is responsible wen one sees ill-conduct but doesnt make any effort to stop it then how will we not b questioned by Allah for the things we ,if not endorsing but make no effort to rectify.let us not forget that we represent our family and so does the wife but we live in a tolerant society with regards to women who do not cover themselves up,wear skin fit see thru etc etc apparel.
wen we men do as we please in terms of ill conduct we also lose the right to admonish and this is wat we have isnt it?
qasam hay keh insaan khasaray main hay sawaye unkay jo iman laye.
Surah at-Taghabun ayah 14
O you, those who have faith! Truly, among your spouses and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if you forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
The following is an excerpt of commentary on this ayah, from Tafsir Ibn Kathir:
Allah states that some wives [husbands too?] and children are enemies to their husbands and fathers [and wives and mothers?], in that they might be busied with them rather than with performing the good deeds
Now let me paraphrase :
There are actions which impact people around it, society and there are questions which impact mainly the person who is doing it. Drinking falls under the action which impact people around the person doing it, I’ll stop anyone under my influence, but then again will be QUESTIONED if we don’t stop? Thats what I’m asking. There is a verse regarding “amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar” but then that does applies to population overall not specifically to your family / spouse etc.
spouses are part of population.if we r not held responsible for those who r the most nearest n dearest who will be.certainly not the maulvi across the road.
conclusion
wether right or wrong i believe that both men and women do have the responsibility of keeping their partners in line.furthermore i believe men ,as more responsibility is given to them will be held accountable to a greater degree as compared to women.
we have progressed to the present condition due to the tolerance in tiny steps but is our society a muslim society.are we responsible for only ourselves?u know my views on this.wat i meant earlier was that i am here to discuss but not convince.i was terse so plz excuse me.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain1
Really? How/why? Is it mentioned somewhere in Quran?
KARAKUSH
“And they (women), have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable**, But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them**.” (Holy Qur’an, 2:228)
“I advise you to treat women well, for they are like captives under your control.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance)…” (Holy Qur’an, 4:34)
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women…” (Holy Qur’an, 4:34)
“The man is responsible for his household and he will be asked about his guardianship.” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
my conclusions r based on these.u may have ur own conclusions.but the general theme is with greater responsibility comes accountability.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
saro
I was listening to one of lectures of Yousaf Estes(HE WAS A american CHRISTIAN PRIEST AND THEN EMBRACED ISLAM,now a islamic preacher and scholar,website islamtomorrow.com),there was one question from ladies about HIJAB,quoting one hadith
““that all those wome who dont wear hijab ,there husbands,father,or brother will be answerable to ALLAH””
the question was about this hadith,
his respose was that,
In islam ,no one is answerable for the acts of others but here following is explaination that he gave
Women is not accountable by ALLAH for this if she doent wear hijab.
there mahrams are held responsilbe bez there are three resposibilities of Mahrams
1)have they taught there ladies about this requirment by ALLAH.like
a women is not required to wear hijab infront of there mahrams,in her home etc etc
2) Has he bought her the appropriate hijab( he said in joke no women in whole world will say no to new clothes)
3)has he created an enviroment in which she wears hijab and feel comfortable like have you appreciated your wife or sis for wearing hijab,like encourgement.etc etc
so for these reasons a women mehrams will bi held responsibe.
in the end
ALLAH knows the best and May HE forgive me If I have mis understood some thing,I wrote every thing in good will
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
hareem, that's what we're saying. Yes, men have an obligation to protect the women of their community (NOT just of their own household, mind you!), but a person's actions are still of their own volition. If you misbehaved, would you appreciate it if you were to find your own good father face to face in hell because YOU screwed up, when you know the man could very well be enjoying himself in heaven? Do you think that's honestly just?
Seriously, lady, leave the judging up to God.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
hareem, that's what we're saying. Yes, men have an obligation to protect the women of their community (NOT just of their own household, mind you!), but a person's actions are still of their own volition. If you misbehaved, would you appreciate it if you were to find your own good father face to face in hell because YOU screwed up, when you know the man could very well be enjoying himself in heaven? Do you think that's honestly just?
Seriously, lady, leave the judging up to God.
I think I understand where you are continually missing the point.
InshaAllah the following points may shed a bit more light on this fairness/justice issue.
The question is if a woman screws up and her mahram is good.
The answer is, good is defined by Allah (SWT), inaction by the man, i.e. he doesn't warn, he doesn't scold, he doesn't in some way or another chastise the woman, then yes he is punishable. Allah (SWT) Judges on bad deeds and included in this list of bad deeds is the lack of enjoining and calling others to be good.
In analogy: If there are two people having a fight and a third watches and passes by, the third is captured and punished. He asks, "why am treated like this? ... I did nothing" .... the answer he get's is, "precisely".
Now Allah (SWT) knows His creation better than us. If you follow the man-made laws that women and men should be given equivalent treatment then we are already going against the Jusitce of God. If we put Mike Tyson in the ring with a weakling, that would be unfair. To be judged equally rather than equivalently Allah (SWT) has a greater requirement from men than for women, just like a greater requirement for scholars than for the layman. It is to do with the responsibility and influence Allah (SWT) has given that individual.
So, I have left the judging to God, because I'm sorry to say that I'm not the one questionning the parameters of judgement that has been given to us by God. However, you continually ask me whether I think what is written in the hadith is justice or not.
If a mahram has given these warnings then by the mercy of Allah there is no reason why he will not go to heaven.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
I am assuming that if the person is jannati, they probably did try their best to warn and convince the woman to not do what she is doing. Remember, Islam does not promote forcing. So you can't expect a jannati man to force a female in his family to follow Islam when she doesn't want to. That doesn't make him any less Jannati. I don't know why you'd assume that I would expect a jannati man to sit mum and not say anything to a female in the family that is doing something that is hurting herself or others.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
I am assuming that if the person is jannati, they probably did try their best to warn and convince the woman to not do what she is doing. Remember, Islam does not promote forcing. So you can't expect a jannati man to force a female in his family to follow Islam when she doesn't want to. That doesn't make him any less Jannati. I don't know why you'd assume that I would expect a jannati man to sit mum and not say anything to a female in the family that is doing something that is hurting herself or others.
Your ordering of precendence is not logically flowing which is why I could not understand you. A person is not a jannati until Allah (SWT) makes them Jannati. No, Jannati therefore can be taken out of heaven and put into Hell.
I only agreed with the essential aspects of the original post#1 , but there are some confusing terminologies in it I agree.
Remember also that no one can enter Paradise expect by the Mercy of Allah (SWT). And we are told no one can earn his way to Paradise. We will all require the Mercy of Allah (SWT).
The issue of forcing is again a debatable one. The husband for example can force as a last resort, if his wife still continues to do bad, specifically zina, then he should divorce her, to clear his responsibility from her. In the case of the Father-daughter scenario just as he has rights over her she has rights over him. His rights are to be given respect and obedience, her rights are to be given the correct tarbiyya. Allah (SWT) as you say is the Judge.
Re: Glad tidings of jannat for women
There is no excuse or justification for force in Islam. Divorcing someone because their moralities don't agree with your own is not the same thing as force.