im trying to follow the Matsui-Faisal conversation… but my lack of comprehension has come in the way… 
No, you may be posting insults on people's faith all across this forum because you have no respect for their feelings or because you have a desire to taunt them and see them leap at the bait. Thats for you to know, and frankly I don't think I care. My point was simple. If someone doesn't know how to communicate with his peers and irks them often enough, the peers will do well to dump him from their group. There is no point tolerating someone's insults and slurs for an extended period of time.
Good point. And as per my point, this had been said in at least 5 posts before yours already. You are again making assumptions Faisal about my motivations. Then you say, "I don't care". Well which is it? Either you care enough to overexamine my motnivations in postings or you don't.
Now going back to the topic. As far as whether you should be friends or continue friendships that can get over such little perturberances. Depends also on whether your faith can be shaken by digs at the esteemed prophet by someone you consider a friend. Either your friendship is not strong enough or your faith.
ANd as a practical example. I have discssed the merits of prophets, Mohammed included, and gods both male and female with friends of different faiths (like many other people). It has never cost me a friendship or any one of my firends a loss in their faithly devotion.
i think taunting is one thing.... but making someone question their own faith is another... i think its good from time to time that someone makes u think and ask urself what exactly u do believe..
but yes.. insulting someone intentionally is a no no
I never claimed in my post, that it is an absolutely original idea which no one could have thought before. My post was my views, presented in my own way. To look at in another way, I generally don't agree to the approach (which some others proposed) to hang around these people who'd insult your faith all the time, in the hope of reforming them.
May be. May be not.
If an uneducated, ignorant person utters such insults, then yes, you can educate them. But if educated (over-educated in some ways) people, who know fully well what they are saying, keep insulting someone, they usually have a good idea on why they are doing it and are seldom in the mind-set to learn and reform. So to me it seems a lot of waste of time. But then again, I am sure there are more optimistic people here, who'd never give up. I only have finite amount of time to spend on such nobel deeds.
Good points faisal. That makes a distinct claim. Although, It is about willingess to learn/teach not to reform, in my opinion.
Now..How did you determine what my motivation was when you uttered my name in your post that started all this? I am a bit unclear about that. Wherever did you get the idea, my retorts are about getting even and not about willingness to learn and/or teach.
Re: Friends and religious discussions
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Now my question is two-fold. One, what advice would you give her? And if you found out what your non-muslims friends really thought about the Prophet(SAW) and lets say they said openly or believed some pretty bad things about him, would you still find it easy to be friends with them? Thanks. Serious replies, thanks.
[/QUOTE]
I personally can't be friends with someone who insults my religion, i have non-muslim friends, i respect their beliefs and they do the same.
If someone doesnt have respect for you and your beliefs than go separate ways, in a nice manner without harm, like it's said... 'to you- be your way, to me -mine'..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
I have discssed the merits of prophets, Mohammed included, and gods both male and female with friends of different faiths (like many other people). It has never cost me a friendship or any one of my firends a loss in their faithly devotion.
[/QUOTE]
Matsui, a discussion about the merits/demerits of religion/faith is okay as long as it remains a civilized discussion and I dont think any sensible person will break friendship over such friendly discussions.
We are talking about insulting others' faith and abusing their prophets and gods without even giving them a chance to say something or without even thinking that it might hurt or offend the other person.
^ where does it say that the person offended didn;t get a chance to say anything? conjuring up hypothetical scenarios still hasn;t added substance to the assertion, Asif.
I cannot tell you how many times, I have heard about monkey this and elephant that from my firends. But my understanding about who I am and what I belive in hasn;t shaken the least bit and it has not affected the way I treat my friends. I repeat, if your faith is weak enough that a derogatory remark about your diety, prophet, place of worship, god's favorite headdress is going to make you question a firendship. either your friendship is not strong enough or your faith. You can choose what you want. religion and faith is a personal matter. If someone can shake it so easily then maybe one should rethink their devotion to the snake god, kali maata, allah, Jesus, yahweh or the earth spirit.
Matsui, I dont think your logic is correct. For example, If one of your friends starts abusing and insulting your parents, sister etc , will you take it ? Wont it offend you ?
If it did offend you, then does it mean that your relationship/love with them is not strong enough.
munni, if ur friend leaves her friend because she cant deal with what she is saying, then that person will be left ignorant to what is the true character of Rasool (saw). I dont think it is anything to be upset about, everybody has the rights to their own opinion. But, most likely, that opiniion is based on ignorance/lack of knowledge. Her educating him will not only make her stronger in her faith, but also educate him with his overall impression of islam AND how to not be ignorant towards any and all faiths. In other words, if she speaks with him, he will become aware of how to respect others faiths and preferences, and she would be helping him, (also considering she considers him a friend).
Asif, In my very first post I gave my assertion that religion being one aspect of life. Since then I have used my experiences as examples. First of all, I know that the friends I choose will not debase my family. If they do, then there might be a reason for why they are doing it. I would not shun my friends because they abused my family. I would talk to them and try to convince them otherwise. If they don't listen then so be it. We would not discuss family issues. Being my firends they would understand that and agree.
I am sure there are things among friends that are offtopic. It doesn;t mean I can't be friends with them.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Asif, In my very first post I gave my assertion that religion being one aspect of life. If they do, then there might be a reason for why they are doing it.
[/QUOTE]
Matsui, if they are really your friends and they have a reason to abuse your family then they can convey their point without insulting and abusing them. Same goes for faith/religion also. If someone believes that woshipping a monkey or snake is funny then he should keep it to himself or tell it people who find it funny. Him making fun of a Hindu Monkey/snake God in front of his hindu friend isn't the best way to express his friendship.
Its just a matter of how far willing to go and what is the limit. For you (and for me as well) this limit stops at your family and rest everything becomes debateble , for some others religion is as imortant as their family and they wouldn't want their friends to abuse and insult their god and prophet.
I will give you another example - My wife is the closest person in my life and I can discuss anything with her. But I cant imagine insulting her faith, because I know it will hurt her. Does that mean her faith or our relationship is weak ? No, it means that her faith is an important part of her life and I (of all the people in the world) should understand her feelings.
Asif, no one is saying that abusing religion or family is a good thing. It is how you choose to deal with it. I am a proponent of engagement. You can decide to pop a cap in their ass if you wish, mere bhai. It is all up to you.
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I think we are saying the same thing. How good a friend is someone if they do that. I know my friends would never do that. If they do then there is a chance that they have comedown with scarlet fever or a case of temporary dementia. I refuse to belive that friends would do that. So the question that begs an answer is "How good are your friends?" or "How good are you a judge of character?" or "Is your belief system strong enough to overlook the temporary bouts of insanity among your friends?"
Id just like to clear some confusion.... there are a number of people on this post who actually agree with Matsui.. and a small number that dont... then why is the finger being pointed at Matsui? hmmm