in cricket u can never win with flukes....
u can get away with a SIX or a FOUR on one ball....
or maybe get a WICKET on one ball....
but thats just one fluke....
u need 300 flukes in a one-day match to get the game....
every ball is a different game....
[quote]
As for that world cup which Pak won... let me just tell you that had it not rained that day in the league match against England(Pak were all out for less than 50 runs)... Pakistan would be still looking for its first world cup victory... the Paki team would have been welcomed home by eggs and tomatoes instead of the red carpet that was rolled out for them...
[/quote]
If thats what your theory is then same goes for your beloved Australians.
If Pak would have lost to Zimbabwe in the last match of super 6s then Australia would not even made it into the semis in 99.
As far as I can remember, no team has gone perfectly in a cricket world cup before winning in the finals.
As you mentioned above about cricket being a one man game, that is false, you said when Tendulkur or Lara goes down the whole team fails, not true, Westindies won 2 test matches without even Lara scoring big in any of them.
[quote]
For the record , at one time I used to be a die-hard cricket follower... and then one find day it dawned upon me that one-day cricket is just too much prone to "flukes" for my taste... and really any team can win on any given day unless there is an extremely big gap in the stength (talent wise) between two sides
[/quote]
No I think you stopped watching matches because your team started to play miserably.
You can't compare soccer to cricket. Soccer really depends on one moment you score a goal while in cricket a team's wining chance depends on the whole match rather than that one moment like soccer.
In soccer a team can have possesion 70% of time but still can loose because the other team got lucky. In cricket it is completely opposite, better team always win.
In both matches Pakistan won they batted and boweld better thats why they scored more runs and gave less runs.
Like I said beofre it doesn't matter if you win by a run or 200 runs, wining is winning, better team of the day always comes on the top in cricket.
Now finnally you are taking your frustration out like a typical Indian by calling chucker and aaloo.
Pakistan Ka matlab Kya?
La Illaha Illalah!
Hindustan Ka Matlab Kya?
Ham Ko kya, Bhatr mai Ja!
[quote]
Originally posted by chilli:
**Mahiwal... apparently I have not done a good job of explaining myself...
Predictability is the last thing I want....
What I want is :
(1)Victory on performance alone not on luck or divine intervention. Make it difficult for "flukes" to happen. For example penalty shootout in Soccer is all about luck.It also brings a team game to individual level.Do away with it.
(2)In certain games (eg. Cricket) where luck and external factors often decides the outcome... the result of a few matches should not be banked upon to gauge the ability of a team. Only good/bad performances over an extended period of time should be interpreted for judgement.
[This message has been edited by chilli (edited June 22, 2002).]**
[/quote]
Since the first of your (stupid) points do not apply to cricket, let me answer the second one.. Go and look at Pakistans recent (or full time record)... They have whitewashes against the Windies, then they kicked some Sri Lankun butt, hammer the kiwis in both forms of the game...
And go and have a look at the test rankings for all times... Pakistan is at the third place, and is slightly short of the Windies, for the 2nd place, and these are all time records, but if you look at both (all-time, and recent) records, you will see how consistent we are...
ALL TESTS
Team Tests Won Lost Drawn Tied Win %
Australia 628 275 172 179 2 61.24
West Indies 386 142 109 134 1 56.34
Pakistan 285 85 69 131 0 55.19
England 795 269 231 295 0 53.80
South Africa 266 80 98 88 0 44.94
Sri Lanka 125 30 49 46 0 37.97
India 356 71 119 165 1 37.17
New Zealand 297 50 119 128 0 29.58
Zimbabwe 63 7 33 23 0 17.50
Bangladesh 11 0 10 1 0 0.00
So Pakistan with the win rate of 55.19% was all based on flukes... Is this period extended enough for you???
THATS CALLED A JEALOUS THEORY...
[This message has been edited by Spock (edited June 22, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by ehsan (edited June 22, 2002).]
From looking at that table, teams like Australia and England have a big advantage over teams like pak and India because both Aus and Eng started out as Goliaths against new test playing countries like Ind and Pak when they started to play cricket.
Expect that ranking to go up in next couple years for Pakistan.
Pakistan Ka matlab Kya?
La Illaha Illalah!
Hindustan Ka Matlab Kya?
Ham Ko kya, Bhatr mai Ja!
[quote]
Originally posted by UMAIR316:
**From looking at that table, teams like Australia and England have a big advantage over teams like pak and India because both Aus and Eng started out as Goliaths against new test playing countries like Ind and Pak when they started to play cricket.
Expect that ranking to go up in next couple years for Pakistan.
**
[/quote]
We are going to surpass the windies soon!! No.2 is a great spot
Turns out Spock is correct… Pakistan did not score 48… they actually were 74 all out (if you believe Spock… that’s a hell of a difference) in that league match in 1992 World Cup aginst England. The situation was that if Pakistan lost this game, it would have been out of the tournament. Fortunately for Pakistan that subsequent to their pathetic batting display.. the match was abandoned due to rain . As a result Pakistan was awarded one point and managed to survive in the tournament. They went on to win the World Cup and ofcourse all was forgiven…and forgotten as it now appears…
(To refresh your memory please visit : http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/WORLD_CUPS/WC92/LEAGUE /PAK_ENG_WC92_ODI13_01MAR1992.html )
Rest of what Spock wrote I did not care to read…
I think I have said what I wanted to say… if folks here dont get it… not my problem pals…
[This message has been edited by ehsan (edited June 22, 2002).]
chilli, if you have seen that match, you must have noticed how rain was playing havoc, and how slippery the pitch was at the time Pakistan was batting...
You ignored the rest of what I said simply because you couldnt answer that..
You said that a team needs to prove consistly that its a winning team, I just gave you the entire statistics of all teams, can you answer that? no... Proves you are a loser and very jealous just because Pakistan won...
You didnt answer me about Shoiab's bowling the other day... Could the Aussies have survived that? Dont tell me all those lethal deliveries were flukes... Like I said before, face one delivery from Shoaib and then you will be coming back with your teeth and nuts in a basket, and then you'l know what flukes are all about...
So far Mr. Chilli has refused to reply to all the question he was asked implementing that he has lost this battle once again and Pakistanis as always are the winners, in the cricket ground, in the battle ground and now on gupshup ground.
As far as we are on flukes, if you ever ask a cricket expert on which was the biggest fluke in the history of cricket and they will definatley tell you India beating Windies in 83 was the biggest.
Pakistan Ka matlab Kya?
La Illaha Illalah!
Hindustan Ka Matlab Kya?
Ham Ko kya, Bhatr mai Ja!
[This message has been edited by UMAIR316 (edited June 23, 2002).]
That’s amazing! Pakistan manage to be on the 3 rank by playing less matches than India.
GO PAK!
SPOCK Two thumbs up to you!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif
TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT AT ME
You don’t care because it is about Pakistan!
World doesn’t get around yourself!
Flick your hip chilli boy!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif
TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT AT ME
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif
[This message has been edited by Pakistani Tiger (edited June 23, 2002).]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Spock:
**
ALL TESTS
Team Tests Won Lost Drawn Tied Win %
Australia 628 275 172 179 2 61.24
West Indies 386 142 109 134 1 56.34
Pakistan 285 85 69 131 0 55.19
England 795 269 231 295 0 53.80
South Africa 266 80 98 88 0 44.94
Sri Lanka 125 30 49 46 0 37.97
India 356 71 119 165 1 37.17
New Zealand 297 50 119 128 0 29.58
Zimbabwe 63 7 33 23 0 17.50
Bangladesh 11 0 10 1 0 0.00
Pakistan in third place. Now that’s what I call fluke. India in seventh place, even bigger fluke. God, I hate flukes.
Flukes take the fun out of sports!!. I agree.
Its going to be second soon...
.
[This message has been edited by ehsan (edited June 23, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by UMAIR316:
*As far as we are on flukes, if you ever ask a cricket expert on which was the biggest fluke in the history of cricket and they will definatley tell you India beating Windies in 83 was the biggest.
*
[/quote]
Umair - let me remind few things about that world cup :-
You won 2 onedays against Aus and you call yourself world Champs now and when it comes to India's win you call it a FLUKE ?? This is called double standard.
We won the world cup because of our performance and not because of some stupid rule which forced South Africa out of Tournament and gave you one point for the match you had almost lost.
AK
[This message has been edited by Asif_k (edited June 24, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by ehsan:
**
Ehsan That list doesn’t prove much here, If at all it proves anything, then that Pakistan has been a very good team in the past. But in recent times it has not performed that well and it is obvious in the following table which has a data for last few years and it will tell you where Pakistan stands in test championship :-
It will clearly tell you the difference in Australia and Pakistan.
ICC Test Championship Table
as at 17 June 2002 ]
Team Played Won Lost Drawn Points Average
1 Australia 13 9 2 2 20 1.54
2 South Africa 16 11 3 2 24 1.50
3 New Zealand 16 7 5 4 18 1.13
4 Sri Lanka 15 7 6 2 16 1.07
5 England 16 7 6 3 17 1.06
6 West Indies 14 6 7 1 13 0.93
7 Pakistan 16 4 7 5 13 0.81
8 India 14 4 7 3 11 0.79
9 Zimbabwe 16 3 11 2 8 0.50
- Bangladesh 4 - 4 - 0 -
AK
So now you're blaming the rain, great job, typical Indian reply, Pakistan wins because of raining.
It doesn't really matter because Pakistan was the best team in that tournament an they proved by beating Newzeland not once but twice and beating England comprehensively in the final, all teams win world cups with some kind of controvorseries.
OK I might have forgotten that subject when in the world did South Africa came in picture because the last thing I remember South Africa reached the semis and lost to England becaue of raining, so in that matter even England shouldn't be in the final.
Pakistan Ka matlab Kya?
La Illaha Illalah!
Hindustan Ka Matlab Kya?
Ham Ko kya, Bhatr mai Ja!
[quote]
Originally posted by Asif_k:
**
It will clearly tell you the difference in Australia and Pakistan.
**
[/quote]
Asif, where did I say Pakistan is better than Australia?
Once again stastics don't prove crap, ask any cricket expert and they will tell you which are top 3 test playing teams in the world rightnow, Australia will be first, South Africa is second and Pakistan will be third.
None of the teams who are above Pakistan rightnow can beat Pakistan.
Pakistan Ka matlab Kya?
La Illaha Illalah!
Hindustan Ka Matlab Kya?
Ham Ko kya, Bhatr mai Ja!
[quote]
Originally posted by UMAIR316:
So now you're blaming the rain, great job, typical Indian reply, Pakistan wins because of raining.
[/quote]
I am not blaming the rain - I am just pointing you out that had it not been for the RAIN (in 70+ all out game) your players would have been watching the match.
[quote]
It doesn't really matter because Pakistan was the best team in that tournament an they proved by beating Newzeland not once but twice and beating England comprehensively in the final,
[/quote]
Umair - Pakistan Team deserved to win the Tournament because when it mattered most, they played like Champions, but to say they were the best team in the tournament is wrong. Best Team was NZ and yes Pakistan beat them in SF.
[quote]
all teams win world cups with some kind of controvorseries.
[/quote]
You are wrong - There was no controversy in 1975,1979,1983,87 world cup wins.
[quote]
** even England shouldn't be in the final.**
[/quote]
Yes England didn't deserve to be in the Finals - It should have been South Africa. The stupid Duckworth-Lewis Rule took them out of the Tournament.
AK
[quote]
Originally posted by ehsan:
** Asif, where did I say Pakistan is better than Australia?
**
[/quote]
I thought you were being sarcastic and assumed that you also think Pakistan is the best team in the world right now based on the Stats provided by Spock and their recent wins against the AUS. Anyway My apologies If I assumed wrong.
Umair - If you read the thread, you will notice who started this Stats thing and how your fellow countrymen were taking refuge in those stats.
AK