Finality of Prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwat)

Dear Zalim

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Forgive me but I would have to respectfully disagree.

I would appreciate if you would kindly explain what exactly do you mean by ‘rational move’, which you find lacking in the preferred point. Further commenting on this meaning, you write:

I would once again request you to point out how is the second point more consistent with the ‘other Qur’anic text’ and also to explain what exactly is the ‘irrelevance’ and the ‘incompatibility’ that results from the preferring the first meaning.

You want the verse to be interpreted as:

I really fail to comprehend how can the words ‘Khaatam al-Nabiyyeen’ can possibly be interpreted as: ‘the FATHER (spiritual) of the Prophets’. Does the author find this meaning to be compatible with the other parts of the Qur’an, in which it is clearly stated that through his revelation to the Prophet (pbuh), God clarifies the path of Abraham (pbuh)? Refer to:
[ul]
[li]Al-Baqarah 2: 130;[/li][li]Al-Baqarah 2: 135;[/li][li]Aal Imraan 3: 95;[/li][li]Al-Nisaa 4: 125;[/li][li]Al-An`aam 6: 161;[/li][li]Yusuf 12: 38;[/li][li]Al-Nahl 16: 123 and [/li][li]Al-Hajj 22: 78.[/li][/ul]

Does this not make Abraham (pbuh), the spiritual as well as physical father of the all the prophets, who succeeded him?

You have referred to my opinion on why I believe that the first point is more credible than the second point. Before clarifying the basis of my said preference, I would first like to clarify that from the particular perspective of whether Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger and prophet of God or not, the preference between the two stipulated implications does not entail any affect. Even if the second meaning is preferred, it would not help the cause of those who want to establish the continuation of prophethood after Muhammad (pbuh). It is clear that Muhammad (pbuh) did not – in the Qur’an or any other source that is transmitted to us through the verbal or practical perpetuation of his companions and the succeeding generation of Muslims – foretell the coming of any messenger or prophet of God. The mere fact that the Qur’an does not put upon us the responsibility to believe in any prophet after Muhammad (pbuh), is evidence of the fact that after Muhammad (pbuh), no one has been given his seal of prophethood and, therefore, no one deserves to be held as a prophet of God.

Nevertheless, my preference of the first implication, as stated in my referred response, is primarily based on the context of the referred verse. Let us, therefore, take a look at the context of the referred verse. The particular phrase under consideration – ‘Khaatam al-Nabiyyeen’ – is placed in Al-Ahzaab 33: 40. To understand the context of the verse – and thereby the basis of my preference of the implication of the particular phrase – I would request you to take a close look at the translation of Al-Ahzaab 33: 36 – 40. Yusuf Ali has translated the referred part of Al-Ahzaab as under:
[ul]
*It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, to have any option about their decision: if anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path (36). Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: “Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.” But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah’s command must be fulfilled (37). There can be no difficulty to the Prophet in what Allah has indicated to him as a duty: It was the practice (approved) of Allah amongst those of old that have passed away, and the command of Allah is a decree determined (38). (It is the practice of those) who preach the Messages of Allah, and fear Him, and fear none but Allah. And enough is Allah to call (men) to account. (39)

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (40)*
[/ul]

The following explanation may help in understanding the cited part of Surah Al-Ahzaab:

Verse 36 directs the Muslims to submit to the Prophet’s decisions and admonishes them that lack of submissiveness toward the Prophet’s decision would lead them astray. This admonition is a preamble for the succeeding reference of a social reform that was made through the Prophet (pbuh), which, under the prevalent social circumstances, was generally considered as not only unacceptable but quite detestable. This social reform was regarding the prohibition of marriage with the divorced wives of one’s adopted sons. Some background information of this reform follows:

The Prophet (pbuh), for the purpose of elevating the status of the freed slaves in the society, had persuaded and encouraged marriage between one of his cousins – Zainab (ra) – and his adopted son and a freed slave – Zayed ibn Thabit (ra). However, the arrangement did not work out and the marriage ultimately resulted in divorce. After the divorce, Zainab (ra) was now faced with another dilemma. Being a divorcee of a slave, no respectable person in the society was genuinely willing to marry her. This state of affairs had obvious emotional affects on the Prophet (pbuh), as he had himself persuaded and encouraged the marriage to take place. At this juncture, He might even have considered taking Zainab (ra) in marriage, but was probably reluctant in doing so, because she was a divorcee of his adopted son. At this juncture, the Qur’an directed the Prophet (pbuh) to marry Zainab (ra), even though it was against the accepted norms of the prevalent social setup. Through this directive, not only Zainab (ra)’s immediate problem was sought to be resolved, but from a long-term perspective, it was also meant to correct the social concept of considering the divorced and widowed wives of one’s adopted sons to be prohibited in marriage. Verse 37 – 39 entails reference to this social concept and its correction through the Prophet (pbuh). If you would read the related verses once again, in the light of the foregoing explanation, I am sure you would understand the stress and the implication of each of the statements in these verses, in their correct perspective.

At the end of the stated directives, in verse 40, the Qur’an has stressed four points, with reference to the mentioned incident:
[list=1]
[li]“Muhammad (pbuh) is not the father of any man”, which entails a refutation of a biological relationship between the Prophet (pbuh) and Zayed Ibn Thabit (ra) and, therefore, a lack of prohibition, in the Shari`ah, of marriage between the Prophet (pbuh) and the divorced wife of Zayed (ra); [/li]
[li]“He is the messenger of God”, which means that whatever Muhammad (pbuh) has done, even if it is against the accepted norms of the prevalent society, is according to the directives of God and, therefore, is clear of all sin and fault; [/li]
[li]“And [he – i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) – is] the seal of prophets”, which clearly refers to the fact that because Muhammad (pbuh) is the ‘last’ among the prophets of God, thus, if God had not reformed the referred social concept – of considering the divorced and widowed wives of one’s adopted sons to be prohibited in marriage – through His ‘last’ Prophet, then it would have remained an accepted social tradition for all times to come; and [/li]
[li]“And God has full knowledge of all things”, which clearly implies the correctness and the appropriateness of all the directives of God. [/li][/list=a]

The above explanation should clarify the basis on which I consider the first of the two stated implications of ‘seal of prophets’ to be more preferable.

My fondest regards to you and those around you.

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They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited June 15, 2001).]

Mr. Wadi,

I have visited this site,

I put them the following question:

“Is there any single Aayet in Quran which prove that Hazrat Isa was NOT DIED but was raised TOWARDS HEAVEN along with HIS ALIVE BODY and is STILL alive somewhere in the Heavens.”

I send this Question to them a number of times BUT I WAS GIVEN ONLY ONE ANSWER. That answer was something like that:

“We cannot waste our time in giving you the Answers.”

So if you can collect any answer from them then please try to collect the answer of this question as well.

[This message has been edited by babar123 (edited June 15, 2001).]

Babar

It seems as though you do not understand PLAIN ENGLISH.

What on earth does the following mean.

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. 4:157-158.

Please specify.

How many more times do I have to quote the following verse.

What does it mean!

Ahmadis Qadiyanis Mirzais......don't know if they are same or different

Even somebody with basic knowledge like my self, can understand one thing that you would only be cursed by most people when you do something really bad.

If one or two elders in the family shout at a child for doing something wrong and others don't then that child might try to clarify his position and don't accept his fault, but if whole family shouts at him then that child would definately understand that he has done something really bad really serious.

But you lot don't even have understanding equivalant to a child but talk about Quran and Sunnah.

They should mind one thing
why whole Ummah got together against them and declared them non-muslims, they must have done something really serious.

I'm confused.

At one point Zalim agrees that the word "Khatam" means "last" along with its other means as "top class, reached its height" and at some other point he disagrees and thinks that only "seal" is the right meaning. Mr Babar agrees that obvious meaning of "khatam" is 'last', right?

can you two please clarify?


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

Wasir,

You may be right if you are talking about worldly subjects. BUT in relegion THE MAJORITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.


"Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"

[quote]
Originally posted by Insaaniat:
**Wasir,

You may be right if you are talking about worldly subjects. BUT in relegion THE MAJORITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.

**
[/quote]

Stupidity and haughtiness doesn't mean your are right either.

Tell us what makes your Mirza Ghulam Qadiani a Prophet?

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Babar

It seems as though you do not understand PLAIN ENGLISH.

What on earth does the following mean.

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. 4:157-158.

Please specify.

How many more times do I have to quote the following verse.

What does it mean!

**
[/quote]

I know the plain English and the plain English states that

"Allah raised him up unto Himself;"

Now you claim to be expert of "plain English"

Tell me is there any mention that Allah "RAISED HIM ALIVE TOWARDS HEAVENS"??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

0There is difference between "towards Himself" and "towards Heavens".

However IF YOU CONSIDER THAT ALLAH IS ONLY INTO THE HEAVENS,AND IS NOT ON THE EARTH THEN I CAN GET SOME UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR "PLAIN ENGLISH".

[quote]
Originally posted by babar123:
** I know the plain English and the plain English states that

"Allah raised him up unto Himself;"

Now you claim to be expert of "plain English"

Tell me is there any mention that Allah "RAISED HIM ALIVE TOWARDS HEAVENS"??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

0There is difference between "towards Himself" and "towards Heavens".

However IF YOU CONSIDER THAT ALLAH IS ONLY INTO THE HEAVENS,AND IS NOT ON THE EARTH THEN I CAN GET SOME UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR "PLAIN ENGLISH".

**
[/quote]

What the difference between "towards himself" and "towards heavens?"

KoraaN says that Allaah is in the heavens, so when he says towards himself, he means towards heavens and when he says towards heavens he means towards heavens, and verses specifically says that "they killed him NOT..." what else do you want, some rocket scientist to tell you the other meaning of word "not" now?

Tell us, what makes Mirza Ghulam Qadiani a Prophet?
What makes him Jesus?

I asked that questions in three different threads but no one cared to answer it, yet.

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**
Stupidity and haughtiness doesn't mean your are right either.

Tell us what makes your Mirza Ghulam Qadiani a Prophet? **
[/quote]

Ohhh......sounds your p***d. Sorry my friend if my message offended you.

You may be call me stupid or whatever but Everyone knows that In History of religion there is never a single instance when Prophets of God claims that they are sent from God and They believe on such and such thing, NOT A SINGLE TIME THE MAJORITY HAS ACCEPTED THE PROPHET. Mosses, Christ and Holy Prophet (SAW) just pick anyone and tell me Did majority accepted them? So did they give up divine message because majority think they are wrong??

Lets accept for sake of argument that Mirza Sahib was send by God Almighty and He is Mehdi. Then tell me Do you think he will give up his message just because majority thinks he is wrong???

Lets take the other side of argument. Lets accept for sake of argument that he is false Prophet and he is Dajjal (in your opinion). Have you seen Jamaat of Dajjal or false Prophet increasing so fast?? There were two claimer of prohpethood during the life of Holy Prophet (SAW) (I cant remember their name) and many after them so can you see their followers anywhere? Similarly do you see any followers of any false prophethod anywhere?? I certainly never come across any.

I got to go now…so take it easy. We are just discussing the topic here no one is forcing you to accept Ahaddiyat.


"Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"

Isaaniyaat, you did not answer my question.

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What makes him(Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) a prophet?

Do you believe in the authencity of KoraaN and ahaadeeths of Muhammed(saw)?

p.s - You don’t offend me, so don’t worry about it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by Insaaniat:
**

You may be call me stupid or whatever but Everyone knows that In History of religion there is never a single instance when Prophets of God claims that they are sent from God and They believe on such and such thing, NOT A SINGLE TIME THE MAJORITY HAS ACCEPTED THE PROPHET. Mosses, Christ and Holy Prophet (SAW) just pick anyone and tell me Did majority accepted them? So did they give up divine message because majority think they are wrong??

**
[/quote]

Insaaniat,

Your arguments are weak.

None of the prophets who came before our holy rasul, Muhammed Mustafa (pbuh), declared the end of prophethood. This was done ONLY by our prophet (pbuh) under commands from the Almighty (swt).

The qur'an has testified the completion of Islam and the seal of prophethood.

This is a fact as much as u would like to twist the words of "seal of prophethood".

What Mirza declared is the same as what the other falsifier, Bahaullah of the Bahais declared over a 100 years back - that he was the mehdi.

Its a pity that both Mirza and Bahaullah did not realize that the mehdi, the appointed imam of Allah (swt) himself testifies to the finality of prophethood that rests with our holy apostle.

Now lets see what Imam Ali (as) says on the finality of prophethood. From Najhul Balagha:

SERMON 233

Spoken when Amir al-mu'minin was busy in the funeral ablution (ghusl) of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him.

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O' Messenger of Allah!

With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets).

Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally.

If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you.

But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

Truth will always prevail.

ws

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
** What the difference between "towards himself" and "towards heavens?"

KoraaN says that Allaah is in the heavens, so when he says towards himself, he means towards heavens and when he says towards heavens he means towards heavens, and verses specifically says that "they killed him NOT..." what else do you want, some rocket scientist to tell you the other meaning of word "not" now?

Tell us, what makes Mirza Ghulam Qadiani a Prophet?
What makes him Jesus?

I asked that questions in three different threads but no one cared to answer it, yet.

**
[/quote]

I could not imagin that just to make prove that unlike our Holy Prophet (PBUH) who has died on the earth , Hazrat Isa was not died and was raised towards "HEAVENS" you can LIMIT ALLAH ONLY IN HEAVENS.

SHAME ON YOU.

Tell me where in Quraan it is mentioned that Allah is only in Heavens.

Also note that This Aayet only tells that Hazrat Isa was not "KILLED". This Aayet does not says that Hazrat Isa was not "DIED".

My question was to show a single Aayet in Quran which show that Hazrat Isa was not "Died".

Now can you say that there is no difference between "Killed" and "Died".????

For your second question:

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib is the True Imam Mehdi.

It is mentioned in Quran that ALL prophets are Imam Mehdies.

Because Hazrat Mirza Sahib is Also Imam Mehdi therefore he is prophet also.

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib is the True Imam Mehdi.

It is mentioned in Quran that ALL prophets are Imam Mehdies.

Because Hazrat Mirza Sahib is Also Imam Mehdi therefore he is prophet also.

For your special information, WE BELIEVE IN THE AUTHENTICITY OF QURAN AND SAHI AHADITH.