I find it amusing that you want people who attack organizations such as the Red Cross to kick the U.S. out and take over. You care nothing for Iraqi children or babies you care nothing for Iraq, you care nothing for the hundred of thousands that died under Saddam, you truly are showing your true colors.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
The ones that have been living under oppresion for decades while you sat silent.
[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to the ones who lives under oppression were ended by 12 years of sanctions? By cluster bombs? By trigger-happy troops in their own streets?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
I find it amusing that you want people who attack organizations such as the Red Cross...
[/QUOTE]
I don't want the United States military in Iraq, especially after it went around attacking Red Cross depots in Afghanistan, and having murdered countless number of Iraqi kids and babies - for which you have never issued any condemnation, just excuses.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
The ones that have been living under oppresion for decades while you sat silent.
[/QUOTE]
yes, EVERYONE sat silent, that includes his SUPPORTERS aka US/UK.
Haha, if the U.S. troop left what do you think would happen to the people of Iraq, would everyone get along, hold hands, create an Islamic state and live happily ever after? It’s easy for you to condemn the U.S. in Iraq but without an alternative solution you are really a voice that cannot be taken seriously, so come on, what’s your plan?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Grand Vizier: *
Are you referring to the ones who lives under oppression were ended by 12 years of sanctions? By cluster bombs? By trigger-happy troops in their own streets?
[/QUOTE]
No he just rolls his eyes, and makes excuses when Iraqi's and Muslims are killed - never any condemnations. In fact he posts threads celebrating the American military killing Iraqi's in the "shock and awe" campaign. When people point out his hypocrisy, well then he just loses his temper and manners. What a sight to see. :)
Malik I am asking for discussion, bring this issue to forefront, I want to discuss your plan for Iraq or is it the same plan you had with dealing with Saddam, which was do nothing? Don't confuse curiosity and questions with a bad temper or bad manners, you wont get very far with that type of thinking.
UTD, start by admitting that this war was "mistake" if not "crime" :p
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Don't confuse curiosity and questions with a bad temper or bad manners, you wont get very far with that type of thinking.
[/QUOTE]
I have never lost my temper or my manners ever on this site. But for you it is a different thing, as we all have seen in the last couple of days.... :)
Frankly, all that you and your lot have put forward and claimed about Iraq over the last year has turned out to be totally false and a whole bunch of lies. The downing of the Chinook being the most vivid example so far. I read yesterday that a majority of American's do not even trust Bush's handling of Iraq - guess they must be supporting these so-called "terrorists" as well? All those people who argued against the war in this forum over the last year, have not only been proved correct, but they have continued to knock your so-called "arguments" to pieces. Along the way we have also won round many who were on your "side" as well - this thread being an example of that.
Carry on your discourse...sorry excuses for American soldiers killing Iraqi kids and babies, and you will receive more than befitting and factual responses.
Malik you have no plan, that's all you needed to say. :)
"For many of us, the celebratory mood and glee we see exhibited every time an American is killed merely increases our resolve, demonstrates that we are doing the proper thing and countenances more patience. In fact, many times getting a good dose of anti-Americanism on Gupshup reinvigorates even me erasing any and all doubts I might be having about the path we as a nation are pursuing."
Amen Brother!
reading some of these comments were truly heart wrenching. This is clearly a war fought on the behest of the Zionist Jews, and the only thing they are good at is hiding behind others like cowards, while the others' blood is being spilt. For them, it does not matter how many soldiers die in this useless conflict as long as the Israel's security goals are met in the region.
Contrary to that, the American public seem to hold a different opinion and the sentiment clearly shows that the patience of American public is running out with this farcical conflict..
(CNN) -- Families of some of the 15 U.S. soldiers killed in this week's helicopter crash in Iraq expressed their grief Tuesday as well as concern over the U.S. mission in the country.
The soldiers were killed and 27 others wounded when the CH-47 Chinook transport helicopter went down Sunday near Fallujah, a hotbed of U.S. resistance, in a suspected missile strike. Initial reports indicated 16 had died. (Gallery: Chinook fatalities)
The crash fatalities along with the deaths of another soldier and two civilians made Sunday the deadliest day for Americans in Iraq since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1.
"I'm saddened because I know a family hurts, and there's a deep pain in somebody's heart," Bush said Tuesday as he inspected damage from wildfires in Southern California.
"But I do want to remind the loved ones that their sons and daughters, or the sons in this case, died for a cause greater than themselves and a noble cause, which is the security of the United States."
While some family members said the United States must stay the course in Iraq, others cited misgivings about the U.S. presence as casualties mount.
"If we pull out without stabilizing the situation, we'll have pandemonium. It would be a revolution," said Ronald Slavenas, whose son Brian, 30, of Genoa, Illinois, was piloting the chopper.
"We have to keep a stabilizing cap over it and hopefully get more help from other nations and other sources."
Marcus Slavenas, one of Brian's brothers, was more critical: "I don't believe we need to be there. I wish the Iraqis well and I hope they can figure out their problems, but I don't want this to happen at the expense of our boys."
The widow of Staff Sgt. Daniel Bader, 28, of York, Nebraska, said she was crushed that her husband would not see their daughter grow up.
"Now he's not going to know what she's going to look like, what she's going to be or anything because she was just barely 6 months old when he left," Tiffany Bader said.
**
"I just want the world to know that my husband was a great man. I just want everybody to know that he fought for his country. He was my world. I loved him with all of my heart."
Harriet Johnson lost her son, Spc. Darius T. Jennings, 22, of Cordova, South Carolina.
"He kept saying, 'Mama, I'm ready to come home. You don't see the stuff I see over here,' " Johnson recalled. "What he kept telling me was he was tired, he was ready to come home."
Johnson said she wants to see an end to the U.S. occupation.
"The people over there are telling our American leaders that they don't want us over there and they will continue to kill our American soldiers," she said.
"They're telling our leaders this, so why aren't our leaders listening and bringing our babies home?"
But Johnson said she's proud her son died defending his country. "I want him to be known as Darius the hero because he is my hero. He's 22 years old. He's an Army veteran, but he's a fallen soldier."
The family of Sgt. Steven D. Conover, 21, of Wilmington, Ohio, said he also expressed misgivings before his death, especially after his best friend was killed in a roadside explosion.
Lt. Brian Slavenas, pilot of the Chinook, is recalled by his brother Marcus and father, Ronald.
"He said, 'I put him in a body bag and sent him home to his wife and kids,' " recalled Mike Earley, Conover's stepfather. "He said, 'Mom, I've seen far too much. I want to come home.' "
"You think he wouldn't leave you trying to come home, and that's the part that hurts so bad -- the way he went," said Rose Wilson, grandmother of Staff Sgt. Joe N. Wilson, 30, of Crystal Springs, Mississippi.
The parents of Pfc. Karina S. Lau, 20, said they felt the same way.
"When you have hope that she was coming home on leave, and this happens, it's a double shock," said Augustin Lau, Karina's father**
Old Man, you have to remember that this person (OG) goes around making such comments in thread after thread. Here is saying the humiliation in Fallujah is not like Vietnam, but in a related thread he advocates Vietnam-style tactics in bombing Fallujah. This is what he said:-
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102672&pagenumber=4
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"For many of us, the celebratory mood and glee we see exhibited every time an American is killed merely increases our resolve, **demonstrates that we are doing the proper thing* and countenances more patience....
[/QUOTE]
Yes, American soldiers are killed when US does a "proper thing".... what does "proper" really mean to you? Something like done in Vietnam, Hiroshima, Somalia, Lebanon etc.?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Yes, American soldiers are killed when US does a "proper thing".... what does "proper" really mean to you? Something like done in Vietnam, Hiroshima, Somalia, Lebanon etc.?
[/QUOTE]
Well all these people supported the "shock and awe" of the American military which has killed over 9000 Iraqi civilians, yet want others to codemn revenge attacks by the Iraqi resistance.
The fact is that since the fall of Saddam the American's have by far killed more Iraqi civilians than ay one or group that they can point to. Terrorists.
A three-page thread for fifteen American soldiers...
They were part of an occupying/invading force.
Where's the three-page thread for the thousands and thousands of Iraqi soldiers who were killed for trying to resist an invasion? i don't know, maybe it's just me as usual, something seems slightly amiss here. Where's the three-page thread for the hundreds if not thousands of civilians who lost their lives during the invasion? Soldiers in democratic countries get an opportunity to willingly decide whether or not they want to partake in an arena of conflict, they CHOOSE whether or not they want to serve their lives for their country. Iraqi children were never offered a choice re: whether or not they wanted to die.
Nadia, I'm sure a thread that celebrated the deaths of Iraqi children or civilians would also get 3 or more pages of posts. But search as I may, I can't come across any threads celebrating the deaths of Iraqi civilians or even the soldiers who were killed for trying to resist the invasion.
What we have here is 3 pages of people celebrating the deaths of American soldiers without any suggestions on how to make Iraq a safer place. We even have great (off topic) filler like this: This is clearly a war fought on the behest of the Zionist Jews, and the only thing they are good at is hiding behind others like cowards, while the others' blood is being spilt.
[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole: Nadia, I'm sure a thread that celebrated the deaths of Iraqi children or civilians would also get 3 or more pages of posts. But search as I may, I can't come across any threads celebrating the deaths of Iraqi civilians or even the soldiers who were killed for trying to resist the invasion.
[/quote]
No one opened a thread "celebrating the deaths of Iraqi children or civilians" because neither of those two parties ever signed their names on a dotted line agreeing to partake in a military engagement. Does that justify dancing around the news of a soldier's death? No. My beef is that this thread has gotten a great deal of attention because it's 15 American soldiers who passed away. i think it shows how disproportionate our attention is. Many times that number of children also passed away, or became orphans, during the invasion. Many times that number of (forced) conscripts also died in 'turkey shoots' (i think that's what they're called in military slang, not certain). Anyways, when innocent children and civilians die, who never agreed to put their lives on the front line, then it impacts me in a greater sense than adult individuals who willingly choose the ramifications of their actions. By the way, one of my Aunt's brothers in Wisconsin served in the US army during the first 'Gulf War', i am not just mouthing platitudes here; i still believe that a civilian's life is more precious and worthy of greater attention than a soldier's. Whatever nationality that soldier may be.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
A three-page thread for fifteen American soldiers...
They were part of an occupying/invading force.
Where's the three-page thread for the thousands and thousands of Iraqi soldiers who were killed for trying to resist an invasion? i don't know, maybe it's just me as usual, something seems slightly amiss here. Where's the three-page thread for the hundreds if not thousands of civilians who lost their lives during the invasion? Soldiers in democratic countries get an opportunity to willingly decide whether or not they want to partake in an arena of conflict, they CHOOSE whether or not they want to serve their lives for their country. Iraqi children were never offered a choice re: whether or not they wanted to die.
[/QUOTE]
Very well said Nadia.
Those who gave countless excuses when Iraqi children died in their hundreds of thousands due to economic sanctions, later made excuses when Iraqi children were slaugthered by American bombs in the "shock and awe" operations they all praised. Since the fall of Saddam Iraqi's have been killed in their hundreds if not their thousands by the American occupation forces, including little children and babies. But as before we only have excuses for these killings and continued support of "shock and awe", calling for daisy cutters to bomb Iraqi civilian towns, and predicting stock market gains in the US after Iraqi's are killed.
Then these people turn around, and are upset over people's reaction of the deaths of some US soldiers? Hypocrites.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Malik73: *
**Those who gave countless excuses when Iraqi children died in their hundreds of thousands due to economic sanctions, later made excuses when Iraqi children were slaugthered by American bombs in the "shock and awe" operations they all praised. Since the fall of Saddam Iraqi's have been killed in their hundreds if not their thousands by the American occupation forces, including little children and babies. But as before we only have excuses for these killings and continued support of "shock and awe", calling for daisy cutters to bomb Iraqi civilian towns, and predicting stock market gains in the US after Iraqi's are killed.*
[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is very true Malik. It was all collateral damage, done for the 'greater good' - that's how easy we made it for ourselves to justify the killing of little children. Everytime there is a shooting at a checkpoint, when even pregnant mothers are targeted, families killed in their car, there is justification proffered for it. Many media outlets had a field day with the "shock and awe" slogan; i even read of it being used as a potential ad slogan to sell military video games. There was no "shock and awe" for Iraqi children as they shivered under the sounds of cruise missiles landing in their neighbourhoods. But terrorizing little children was all part of the collateral damage, was it not.
All of this is pretty sad i think.