FC incapable of fighting insurgents: US general

[bigdaddy]

FC should get training from U.S in fighting militancy. The training U.S gave to Iraqis seems to have turned their country into Switzerland.

It is a well known fact that the part of the world in question will not change their ways... be it the FC, regular Pak army or the western coalition. The best path forward is what U.S ended up using in Iraq which is negotiation with rival groups, understanding of complex issues on both sides. These dumb U.S generals seem to have no learning curve and are once again following the failed strategy of being in bed with thugs from Northern Alliance - who are taking them on a wild goose chase. Shias in Iraq did the same for a long time and turned that country into a hell hole. It is unfortunate that even the top U.S military brass is proving itself to nothing more than tobacco chewing dimwits from bible belt.

[Shogun_Ninjuku]

@bigdaddy

FC should get training from U.S in fighting militancy. The training U.S gave to Iraqis seems to have turned their country into Switzerland.

But seriously, do you think it is lack of quality training or unwillingness? I think it s the latter

@bigdaddy

It is a well known fact that the part of the world in question will not change their ways… be it the FC, regular Pak army or the western coalition. The best path forward is what U.S ended up using in Iraq which is negotiation with rival groups, understanding of complex issues on both sides. These dumb U.S generals seem to have no learning curve and are once again following the failed strategy of being in bed with thugs from Northern Alliance - who are taking them on a wild goose chase. Shias in Iraq did the same for a long time and turned that country into a hell hole. It is unfortunate that even the top U.S military brass is proving itself to nothing more than tobacco chewing dimwits from bible belt.

yes

[burqaposhx]

@vigoratus

And wrong policies over a period of time.

Islamists propaganda on this board and in Pak media is spread by those who have no recollection of tribal area's history.

Wazirastan and other tribal area inhabitants do not and cannot live in civilized manner. That's why they go through self-professed Jihad every 50 or so years.

There are reasons why they call tribal area as "Federally Administered Tribal Area" or FATA.

Islamists do not know that FATA residents are lawless bunch of dimwits who belong to a time that has passed away some 1000 years ago.

Islamists do not know that FATA residents cannot be controlled by Urban Pashtoons. Otherwise Pashtoons who rule Peshawar based provincial government would be able to control these primitive bunch. They can't and that's why the cycle of mindless violence repeats itself in the FATA area.

Islamists want to make it as if Americans are responsible for the following gang fights in the FATA land.

1. Khyber agency's gang war between Magal Bagh and Jangal Bagh
2. Kurram Agency's gang war between Shia and Sunni gangs
3. Jandola's recent gangland killing of 20+ members of one gang that was perceived as pro-government in the eyes of the opposing gang.

These gang wars are similar to the gang wars in Liyari area of Karachi.

But Islamists ignore all that gangsta rap and accuse the West. This is typical of the Islamists. They themselves feed off of gangs and try to destroy law enforcement agencies.

This is high time that we pull out the FC men and move all the civilians within 20 miles of Afghan border to vacant lands in Balochistan, Sindh, Punjab and Frontier.

Then declare 20 miles wide belt to be no man's land. After that any tribal found on either side of the border within 20 miles should be bombed from the sky or land.

You will see that the gang war will end and FATA will become civilized in a short order.

Off course the gang buster bombs should be followed by development of modern infrastructure and political reforms in FATA.

FATA should be LACA "Locally Administered Civilized Area". This can be accomplished by declaring the LACA area to be a separate province or provinces.

A combination of military action and political and economic reforms is the only way forward. Otherwise we will continue getting attacked by the uncouth tribals.

[kaka_in_usa]

Well didnt wanna open another thread for this. FC surrenders without a bullet fired. They need to be called back to assist police and send army over there..**

Militants in Hangu loot, blow up FC fort -DAWN - Top Stories; July 15, 2008

Militants in Hangu loot, blow up FC fort

**

By Abdul Sami Paracha

KOHAT, July 14: Militants blew up a Frontier Constabulary fort in the Shinawarai area of Hangu district on Monday night after looting arms and ammunition.

Witnesses said that about 250 militants had besieged the fort, 30kms from Hangu town, and asked FC personnel to vacate it or face action.

After some time, the personnel decided to leave the fort. They were given ‘safe passage’ by the assailants.The militants entered the fort and loaded their vehicles with arms and ammunition. “Later, they planted explosives in the fort and blew it up,” a local man said.

Hangu district has experienced a spate of terrorist attacks over the past two days since the arrest of seven local Taliban.

Meanwhile, a driver who survived Saturday’s attack on a FC convoy in Hangu has nominated in the FIR six people who, according to him, had taken FC personnel to militants under a conspiratorial plan.

Fifteen FC men were killed in the ambush.Hangu district SSP Mohammad Idrees told Dawn on Monday that an influential political figure was behind the conspiracy. He said the politician, who commanded several gangs of kidnappers, professional assassins and fugitives, had been active in the area for 20 years.

Those nominated in the FIR are Syed Mahmood, an Afghan refugee, Jan Akbar, Subedar Sayed Baz, Miral Khan, Shah Nawaz and Syedullah.

The SSP said that army and police personnel had launched an operation in Zargari, Naryab and Tora Warai areas to trace the culprits.

Artillery from Doaba pounded hills between Orakzai Agency and Hangu district.

He said the commander of 73-brigade had been appointed incharge of the field operation and security forces would work under his command.

Witnesses said artillery fires had frightened locals. They said two bombs hit the Naryab Dam which was not damaged. Any damage to the dam would have caused a large-scale destruction, they said.

Meanwhile, a 100-member jirga of local elders and parliamentarians has urged the government to withdraw army troops from the area, release the captured Taliban, end the search operation, lift the curfew from Doaba and resume talks with militants. The jirga members want the government to allow them to take a peace message to Taliban commander Mullah Sanaullah and bring him to the negotiation table.

[Ajju]

These were men of the same unit that had seventeen men killed a few days ago. From the details that have trickled out, the men killed had run out of ammunition and even though they had called for re-inforcements, it did not arrive in time. They were captured and then shot dead. That seems to be the biggest problem that when these forts and check posts are surrounded and attacked by hundreds of Taliban, the reinforcement and help does not arrive. Why is that? Why are these men left to die or surrender without help. The Pakistan army and FC should be able to quickly dispatch men, ammunition and helicopters to their thinly manned outposts and forts but they don't. The Taliban tried a similar surround and attack method against a US outpost in Kunar but were not able to take the outpost. Nine US soldiers and a large number of Taliban died but timely artillery and air support made sure that the invasion failed. Why can't these FC outposts be provided quick artillery and air support? It would make sense for these men to surrender when out numbered and out gunned like this because they know that fighting and holding out for re-inforcement is noly going to get them killed. The Taliban don't take prisoners and slaughter or shoot people. That could provide motivation for the attacked to fight. If they know that they will get superior help when called, they will get more motivation to fight rather than surrender. So, the blame actually lies higher up the chain with people responsible for the logistics and supply.

[Shogun_Ninjuku]

@kaka_in_usa

Well didnt wanna open another thread for this. FC surrenders without a bullet fired. They need to be called back to assist police and send army over there..

this is gettng worse and worse. But then the army itself has sections that either side with the 'militants' or refuse to fight them or even join them / be captured by them!

The Pak government may want to enlist the help of neighboring countries before things get even worse.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

The wrong policies preceded the formation of these fighter. So it is clear that we need the right policies to bring them back into our fold. Our governments (both past and present) must stop serving their Amriki masters and start working to repair the damage.

Afghanistan will be under Taliban control sooner or later. Compared to other governments in power, the Taliban represented Pakhtun interests and were closely aligned with Pakistan. I don't want any conflicts on the Pak-Afghan border, ever.

According to latest news Afghan Army is up and capable of launching major attacks on Taleban and Al-Qaueda. Its numbers would be increased to 1, 50,000 over the course of next five years.

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

@Ajju

These were men of the same unit that had seventeen men killed a few days ago. From the details that have trickled out, the men killed had run out of ammunition and even though they had called for re-inforcements, it did not arrive in time. They were captured and then shot dead. That seems to be the biggest problem that when these forts and check posts are surrounded and attacked by hundreds of Taliban, the reinforcement and help does not arrive. Why is that? Why are these men left to die or surrender without help. The Pakistan army and FC should be able to quickly dispatch men, ammunition and helicopters to their thinly manned outposts and forts but they don't. The Taliban tried a similar surround and attack method against a US outpost in Kunar but were not able to take the outpost. Nine US soldiers and a large number of Taliban died but timely artillery and air support made sure that the invasion failed. Why can't these FC outposts be provided quick artillery and air support? It would make sense for these men to surrender when out numbered and out gunned like this because they know that fighting and holding out for re-inforcement is noly going to get them killed. The Taliban don't take prisoners and slaughter or shoot people. That could provide motivation for the attacked to fight. If they know that they will get superior help when called, they will get more motivation to fight rather than surrender. So, the blame actually lies higher up the chain with people responsible for the logistics and supply.

The reason is obvious. That is why militant sanctuaries have multiplied.

[Ajju]

@LastOfTheDinosaurs

The reason is obvious. That is why militant sanctuaries have multiplied.

Just like what is happening in the latest episode in Bajaur. FC sent 200 men to capture the LoiSam post where the Taliban were able to surround them in much larger numbers. FC had to retreat and the Taliban have captured almost all of Bajaur and have now surrounded Khar, the headquarter town. Now, the FC is not short of men. Why couldn't they send a much larger number of men, knowing well (or atleast should know well) what the numbers of Taliban are? Now they have surrended the ground to Taliban and retreated to Khar and using bombing by planes and helicopters. This should be eye opening for the "fighting own people" mantra when your own forces can't move freely or go into "our own sovereign area".

[LastOfTheDinosaurs]

@Ajju

Just like what is happening in the latest episode in Bajaur. FC sent 200 men to capture the LoiSam post where the Taliban were able to surround them in much larger numbers. FC had to retreat and the Taliban have captured almost all of Bajaur and have now surrounded Khar, the headquarter town. Now, the FC is not short of men. Why couldn't they send a much larger number of men, knowing well (or atleast should know well) what the numbers of Taliban are? Now they have surrended the ground to Taliban and retreated to Khar and using bombing by planes and helicopters. This should be eye opening for the "fighting own people" mantra when your own forces can't move freely or go into "our own sovereign area".

This is a big issue. Many FC soldiers have complianed they don't understand what their officers from Pakistan Army want.

[ravage]

Re: FC incapable of fighting insurgents: US general

^ maybe they should invest in some translators

[Ajju]

Re: FC incapable of fighting insurgents: US general

Asia Times report says that the FC was ambushed on its way to the LoiSam checkpost by the Taliban as they were already expecting from early intelligence. This seems beleivable and the question arises whether it is the Taliban sympathisers in Pakistan army that have been providing intelligence to the Taliban or whether it is the work of foriegn intelligence. Regardless of domestic or foriegn, it was the prior intelligence of the movement of FC troops that made it possible for Taliban to position a large number of otheir fighters to ambush and kill FC troops.

[Words_of_Quaid]

Re: FC incapable of fighting insurgents: US general

FC is supposed to be a trained corps. If they cannot protect themselves and even worse, people in army are working at odds, then it is a really major major problem.

[callofduty]

Asia Times report says that the FC was ambushed on its way to the LoiSam checkpost by the Taliban as they were already expecting from early intelligence. This seems beleivable and the question arises whether it is the Taliban sympathisers in Pakistan army that have been providing intelligence to the Taliban or whether it is the work of foriegn intelligence. Regardless of domestic or foriegn, it was the prior intelligence of the movement of FC troops that made it possible for Taliban to position a large number of otheir fighters to ambush and kill FC troops.

FC mostly consists of local recruits... unlike Army where the majority are punjabis FC's are phustoons.. so yes... unfortunately their are a lot of bad apples in FC.. but that does not mean its lacks patriots...

[QUOTE]
A 21-year old soldier from the paramilitary Frontier Corps has become a hero among fellow soldiers for opting to single-handedly defend a remote fort in South Waziristan and later dramatically escaping from Taliban captivity.
Niamatullah, however, was made of sterner stuff. He announced he was staying back, all alone, at the fort and will fight until the end. He was also hoping that reinforcements would arrive in time to save the citadel. As his colleagues trooped out of the fort, he took up position at the strategic mountain picket with just two weapons, his G-3 rifle and a light machinegun. He used his wireless set to call the commander of his FC wing to update him on the desperate situation at the Seplatoi Fort and request reinforcement. The commander was surprised that Niamatullah had stayed back alone to defend the fort.
According to FC officials, it was race for time between their men wanting to reach Seplatoi Fort in helicopters and Taliban fighters ready to storm the citadel. The soldiers made it first to the fort and managed to push back the Taliban attackers.

Prior to that, Niamatullah had fired a burst of his gun at the approaching Taliban fighters when they ordered him to surrender or face the consequences. Rather than surrendering, he challenged them to surrender and fired those shots to make clear his intentions. Just then the Taliban got hold of one of the FC soldiers who had abandoned the fort earlier and placed a pistol at his head. They threatened to shoot him if Niamatullah didn't surrender. Much against his wish, Niamatullah surrendered to save the life of his fellow soldier. Other FC soldiers too were taken hostage.

After failing to capture the Seplatoi Fort, Taliban fighters took Niamatullah to their hideout in Barwand area and locked him up. While in captivity, the brave Bhittani tribesman risked his life and managed to call his FC commander on the wireless set to tell him about his capture and assure him that he would return home unharmed. True to his word, he dramatically escaped from captivity three nights later and walked for hours on foot to reach the Seplatoi Fort. He not only brought back his own gun but was also able to bring with him the blanket and Motorola set, known in Pashto as "mukhabira," of the Taliban commander. It was enough of evidence that he had been in Taliban custody.

Daredevil Niamatullah later told his FC commanders and colleagues that every night Taliban would tell him that he would soon be beheaded. For one reason or another, they kept postponing the beheading and provided Niamatullah enough time to plot his impossible escape.

[/QUOTE]