Re: Fanatics in Pak were nurtured by ISI - New York Times
Pakistan needs to do some strategic thinking here.
They are keeping these fighters in reserve as they can be used against India
That is the idiotic mentality of our Generals.
There is not going to be a war with India any more.
India has forged ahead, billions of dollars worth of investments have poured into India, the western powers won't allow a India-Pakistan War to destabilize their investments.
And thus it is no longer necessary to keep these Jihadists in reserve to counter India.
Pakistan needs to take these people out.
India is forging ahead while Pakistani Generals are dreaming of a war of conquest on Kashmir which the world will never allow to occur.
Such is the sorry state of Pakistan
I think you are right. But nore than strategic thinking, I feel Pakistan needs one or two or more leaders that people can respect. Any strategy and change as you know needs to be sold to the people and I don't see anybody in Pakistan that can do that. Ironically the messenger will kill the message.
And that is exactly what the USA was trying to address by importing BB but your enemies within took care of that. (Not that BB had total credibility).
I am jus awestruck how Musharaf who was once considered the next Jinnah has now fallen. I will never understand why and what for.
Re: Fanatics in Pak were nurtured by ISI - New York Times
Taleban was created in mid 90s, when America no longer was interested in Afghnistan. So there was no reason for CIA to help ISI create them.
People among Taleban were mostly same people who had fought with Americans against Soviets, but the JUI ideology they started following as Taleban had more to do with fanatic elements in ISI than Americans.
Like I said, Americans supported fanatics like OBL during resistance against Soviets, but they had no idea about the ideology fanatics were following. Americans were supporting them at that time only because they had a score to settle with Soviets.
Americans only inadvertently supported the fanatics. But our army/ISI knew exactly what these people were capable of. ISI first used this ideology in Kashmir starting 1989 (resulting in erosion of support to Pak among Kashmiris), and then used it against non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan in the form of Taleban starting 1994-5 (resutling in take-over of Pak by them).
the topic that you have posted is about the militants nurtured in the 80s. and not specifically taleban, who were essentially noting more than a diff subgroup of teh same ppl that came about later.
its rather amusing that you dont think that US did not know the ideology these people were following :)
US did not in advertently support the 'mujahideen' aka drug lords and taleben in later years. it was a planned effort and was only done with full coordination of US, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Re: Fanatics in Pak were nurtured by ISI - New York Times
the topic that you have posted is about the militants nurtured in the 80s. and not specifically taleban, who were essentially noting more than a diff subgroup of teh same ppl that came about later.
its rather amusing that you dont think that US did not know the ideology these people were following :)
US did not in advertently support the 'mujahideen' aka drug lords and taleben in later years. it was a planned effort and was only done with full coordination of US, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
The thread is about various fanatics nurtured by ISI/army in Kashmir and in Afghanistan. Americans wholeheartedly supported Afghan against Soviets, but the evil ideology was provided by ISI/army.
US didn't care about what ideology these fanatics were following. They got concerned only when their terror camps started biting Americans themselves in late 90's. That's when Clinton attacked Afgh.
Re: Fanatics in Pak were nurtured by ISI - New York Times
Taleban was created in mid 90s, when America no longer was interested in Afghnistan. So there was no reason for CIA to help ISI create them.
People among Taleban were mostly same people who had fought with Americans against Soviets, but the JUI ideology they started following as Taleban had more to do with fanatic elements in ISI than Americans.
Like I said, Americans supported fanatics like OBL during resistance against Soviets, but they had no idea about the ideology fanatics were following. Americans were supporting them at that time only because they had a score to settle with Soviets.
Americans only inadvertently supported the fanatics. But our army/ISI knew exactly what these people were capable of. ISI first used this ideology in Kashmir starting 1989 (resulting in erosion of support to Pak among Kashmiris), and then used it against non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan in the form of Taleban starting 1994-5 (resutling in take-over of Pak by them).
Again, I will not agree on this...the Mujahideen we once knew were fighting for the good cause backed by Pak local media later caught the attention of many foreign medias in 1980!!! as well. This war became important substance to USA and senate started sponsoring the Mujahideens financially + training them (which still is denied by the CIA). The wahabi or lets call it JUI elements entered into Muhjahideens right in 1980s!!, when foreign mullahs (mainly from KSA) brought in by Zia to influence those kids and made them finally split into the more wahabi supported group the Taleban and the less wahabi influenced grouping the NA. But If you'd ever compare both the Taleban and NA...there is not much difference between their believes, traditions and practise of Islam.
That NA is now considered as the better half of the Mujahideens than Taliban was due to the immense great work of western media. Who made us finally believe goodies are the NA and Taliban is all evil. Same goes for the denial of CIA in training them in special camps, although there are documentaries by ARTE (the french channel in cooperation with bbc), which will prove to you that CIA had a huge rule to play in creation of Taliban :) I would advice you to buy some of these documentaries.
Re: Fanatics in Pak were nurtured by ISI - New York Times
The thread is about various fanatics nurtured by ISI/army in Kashmir and in Afghanistan. Americans wholeheartedly supported Afghan against Soviets, but the evil ideology was provided by ISI/army.
US didn't care about what ideology these fanatics were following. They got concerned only when their terror camps started biting Americans themselves in late 90's. That's when Clinton attacked Afgh.
the article quoted in initial post is talking about the nutters nurtured in the 80s. the taleban angle came in later and mixed the issue. we can thank BB and babar for Taleban but its not that they made some brand new ppl, the nutjobs were already there, babar just consolidated them and supported them.
and as far as who provided what ideology, you need to do your homework, there were fliers, handbooks and all published in US that were distributed to the 'mujahideen' in that era.