[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
** As for being a mother, who'd want to go through all that pain for a leach who's going to suck you dry until they're old and never care about you. **
[/quote]
Maybe cos that mother has done the same to her parents? :)
This thread is NOT to discuss rights of men and women under Islam. If you wish start another thread, and you will be enlightened by the members.
In any case, I had said “Infact Islam was the first religion to give rights to women, including the right in inheritance, something totally unheard of in those days.” I never said equal rights. You obviously don’t read carefully, before jumping in with your comments.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
ps. And if you don’t know that in Islam women have rights in inheritance, than you obviously don’t know much about Islam, in which case, get some knowledge before posting such comments.
A Good Child is a blessing form Allah.
[quote]
HE it is Who created you from a single soul and made therefrom its mate, that he might find comfort in her. And when he knows her, she bears a light burden and goes about with it. And when she grows heavy, they both pray to ALLAH, their Lord, saying, If thou gives us a good child, we will surely be of the thankful.(al-A`raf 7:189)
[/quote]
It's upto Allah to create and take life.
[quote]
O Prophet ! when believing women come to thee, taking the oath of allegiance at thy hands that they will not associate anything with ALLAH, and that they will not steal, and will not commit adultery, nor kill their children, nor bring forth a scandalous charge which they themselves have deliberately forged, nor disobey thee in what is right, then accept their allegiance and ask ALLAH to forgive them. Verily, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful (Al-Mumtahanah, 60:12)
[/quote]
Weaning the child.
[quote]
And mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years; this is for those who desire to complete the period of suckling. And the man to whom the child belongs shall be responsible for their (the mothers') maintenance and clothing according to usage. No soul is burdened beyond its capacity. Neither shall a mother be made to suffer on account of her child, nor shall he to whom the child belongs be made to suffer on account of his child and the same is incumbent on the father's heir. If they both decide upon weaning the child by mutual consent and consultation, there is no blame on them. And if you desire to engage a wet-nurse for your children, there shall be no blame on you, provided you pay what you have agreed to pay in a fair manner. And fear ALLAH and know that ALLAH sees what you do. (al-Baqarah 2:233)
[/quote]
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)
But why is it that many muslims tend to have herds of children. I think many of them believe that they will have to populate the earth with Muslims. If you go and ask a layman that's the answer you get. Why can't the Mullah's preach to have small families, when that's what is said in Quran.
Ofcource, there is no limit and some people call it God's Bussiness and leave it upto God to decide... Sure, i agree 100% and there is no doubt that He controlls all. However, mr smarty pants and mrs pants, forget to coside this; God has give you life, agree?, yes, and he has the right to take it back, yes? yes. BUT, it does not mean that you should jump infront of a 300mps train and say God will save me... ofrocurce not, you have to protect yourself from NOT jumping infront of a 300mps train. Same as that, mr and mrs pants should not say that oh its for God to decide, lets go to bed, good night... and generate a heard of children... nope.
More like to beleive that it is their releigous duty to populate the planet with their brands in the name of the releigion. It shows me their ignorance with the releigion not their understanding. I can understand it if u r bill gates, but even if u r will bates, u wount have the time to devote to all those brats u will have. they will lack personality, they will lack many many things. Consider urself lucky if u can satisfy one child.
Note: This thread is being closed for unspecified reasons.
[quote]
Originally posted by Victory:
*We have seen that Muslims tend to have large families, and the reason they quote is that their religion preaches large families. But, contrary we find that the main reason for poverty, illiteracy of Muslims (and others, ofcourse!!!) is large families. Even though a man earning a decent income, cannot support his family because the size is too large. This is also the reason for corruption. It is not uncommon to find families with 10 children or 12 children. So, in such cases, can family size be restricted. Can the man have any number of children even if he cannot give a good education or food for them. I would like to know the views of Islamic scholars, general public and all. *
[/quote]
Probably lack of the Pill.
My Catholic upbringing is against man made birth control. Is this the same with Islam?
So in pre-cana classes they teach natural birth control methods. Which in my thinking is hypocritical. Either you practice birth control or you don't! Birth control is birth-control.
But how anyone could ever say that children are the cause of poverty is beyond me!
Children are a grace from God. My only brother died in 1997. I wish I still had him around. And I wish I had another brother.
My cousin has 8 brothers and sisters and I think she is very blessed.
Quote: AAG
Probably lack of the Pill.
My Catholic upbringing is against man made birth control. Is this the same with Islam?
So in pre-cana classes they teach natural birth control methods. Which in my thinking is hypocritical. Either you practice birth control or you don't! Birth control is birth-control.
But how anyone could ever say that children are the cause of poverty is beyond me!
Children are a grace from God. My only brother died in 1997. I wish I still had him around. And I wish I had another brother.
I am sorry for you regarding your Brother. But, large families are a problem in South Asian countries. Poverty-Population are in a vicious circle. Because you are poor you cannot afford better education for the child and hence the child turns out to be a street urchin involved in petty crimes and later on gets involved in worse things.
Also, large populations tend to strain the limited natural resources. Population may not be a issue in countries like USA, but I think in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc, the existing social infrastructure and resources are just not sufficient for the population.
The tragedy is if the governments do not implement sufficient measures for control. Though I do not approve of the chinese model of birth control, but I think the Governments should be pro-active in controlling the population or atleast stabilising it at the same level.
** I am sorry for you regarding your Brother. But, large families are a problem in South Asian countries. Poverty-Population are in a vicious circle. Because you are poor you cannot afford better education for the child and hence the child turns out to be a street urchin involved in petty crimes and later on gets involved in worse things.
Also, large populations tend to strain the limited natural resources. Population may not be a issue in countries like USA, but I think in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc, the existing social infrastructure and resources are just not sufficient for the population.
The tragedy is if the governments do not implement sufficient measures for control. Though I do not approve of the chinese model of birth control, but I think the Governments should be pro-active in controlling the population or atleast stabilising it at the same level.**
Here's a silly question...isn't there any public schools (free education?) in these countries? For example in the US you have 12 years. (highschool) And then after is college.
Needy can get grants for college. Middle class children can get government subsidized loans (low interest) or just loans they can begin paying back after graduation.
Are there no opportunites? No chances for a smart person from a poor family? Its not a crime to be poor.
Retired people in my neighborhood volunteer to tutor kids in reading or math or whatever is needed. This is a good way of education also if government is stressed for the funds.
Here's a silly question...isn't there any public schools (free education?) in these countries? For example in the US you have 12 years. (highschool) And then after is college.
Needy can get grants for college. Middle class children can get government subsidized loans (low interest) or just loans they can begin paying back after graduation.
Are there no opportunites? No chances for a smart person from a poor family? Its not a crime to be poor.
There is free public education system, and Especially India has the largest in the world. But, still it is not sufficient to cater the needs of the public. Government does give a lot of financial help in the form of scholarships but the problem is there are too many good students. The government has fixed the ceiling for the amount to be disbursed as scholarship, so students will have to be very good. In my state Karnataka, for the past 6 years, the top 100 guys/girls have more than 99% in Physics, Chemistry & Maths at high School level. If you are scoring <95% there is no chance to get a scholarship.
Loans are a big headache, and they are encouraged for students going abroad. But, the problem in India is how to educate all the children and continue them to keep going to school.
Opportunities for smart persons are always abundant. But, still smart means very smart in India.
The question raised based on Islam, the only thing I will share with you is this:
Remember the famous words of Quran:
"Alasto Be rabbe kum. Qaloo balaa"
It was an oath taken by them. they said why not?
In the aalam-e-barzakh on the day alast (Yom-e-alast) Allah taala took an oath from the whole humanity for accepting Him the only God. Having said that if you see the things, it is crystal clear that "Arwah (spirits) are appointed already" and they have to come any way... so the whole idea of birth control is contradictory to this.. and at an "extreme" point, it does clash to the Islamic Ideology...
Wama Alain Illal Balagh!
You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).
maan ibn Basheer radhiallahuanhumaa]**Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!**
Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
(And yes it's a **MALE* Shaheen ;-)*
Quote: Shaheen
If that's the case, then surely a day will come when there will be no place left for people even to sit and sleep. All you have to do is just stand the whole day long. (Though extreme) If you think rationally you will find that it is correct. With increased population you will have more violence and fights. Then comes, nature selection and survival of the fittest.
I personally think that Islamic scholars need to interfere and tell the public that to improve economically, use pills or Conds.
Allah who created this world, knows best how to control things....
only two people lived on earth when humans first came (Adam and Eve)....
the earth was sufficient for them and it is sufficient for the billions living on it today....
Allah says in the Quran "Allahs earth (world) is vast"....
dont worry about the population....
Allah says "dont kill your children for fear of food, i feed u and them"....
and He is Wise who says in His Book "if the men all of them gathered to create a wing of a fly, they cant create it, and if a fly snatched away something from them, they cant get it back, except for what Allah wishes"....
so only that happens what Allah wishes....
u cant stop anything from happening, even if u wanted to, without Allah's will....
Inna Lillahe wa inna ile hay raajeoon! to your thoughtful comments…
I am not surprised to know that you think you are immortal
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
maan ibn Basheer radhiallahu anhumaa]Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!
Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
(And yes it’s a MALE Shaheen 
I went to a catholic highschool and last i heard, the church encourages catholics to have lots of children. So dont tell me that Islam is the only faith that encourages big families.
Large families were prevalent in the west itself less than a century ago.
Besides,the assumption that religion is solely responsible for people having tons of kids is entirely inaccurate.
what about the non-Muslim countries that have the same problem? They dont have Islam so-called 'breathing down their necks' and telling 'em to have 10 kids...how do u explain their large populations?
I've heard people say things like, 'why do these people have so many kids if they cant feed themselves?' etc etc
Well for one thing, many of the children born in these poor familes dont live for too long. In many places like Africa, for example, kids die before/around the age of 5.
Also, children are a means of support to their families in many cases...the more kids u have, the more money they bring in once they start working.
And ofcourse, poverty, a lack of education are among the many factors to be blamed as well.
And btw..most muslims u'll come across these days dont have large families.
éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é
[This message has been edited by hk (edited November 07, 2001).]