Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
Would you include the Jalsa Salana by the Ahmadi community in that list as well?
weird reply. what about jalsa? you are saying as if non-ahmadis don't do jalsas. Do you think jalsas are biddat?
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
weird reply. what about jalsa? you are saying as if non-ahmadis don't do jalsas. Do you think jalsas are biddat?
No ... chacha_Ghalib should be asked that question, I didn't say anything about anything being biddat ... He called such things contraptions.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
Hazrat Imam Hussein (ra) was a great man who stood for the sanctity of the institution of Khilafat and against the transitioning towards kingship. The blood stained episode of karbala stands as a threshold that clearly distinguishes between genuine khilafat and mulookiat. The incident of karbala was indeed a tragedy but when we all know that he and his companions belong to Jannah (The holy prophet (pbuh) foretold about Imam's high stature in Jannah) and their afterlife is what a momin envies for then why are we keep on mourning his death. Instead of re-enactment of the painful and tragic events of karbala, why don't we focus more on what he stood for and his teachings. They are no more in pain. their murderers met with violent deaths in this world and I believe they will be paying for their ill-acts in the after-life then why perpetual mourning?
We love our parents and when they pass away, we feel immense pain for not being able to see them, talk to them and benefit from their advises and prayers but when they leave this world, it becomes our duty to act as their successors so that whoever come in contact with us, he say good things about our parents. Same is true for the spiritual sons and daughters of our prophet and saints.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
Excellent KC. Thanks for putting it beautifully.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
Subsequently, does anyone's death on a certain day changes the status of that day or increase its significance in the years to come?
Even someone's SAVING from death changes the status of that day for eternity. Eidul Azha.
Death is even a greater matter. Especially when it is the killing of Prophet's family, his ahle bait is concerned.I don't understand that on one hand people say that yearly mourning is wrong/bidah/haram/etc. But then they themselves come up with concepts like "Ashra e Farooq o Hussain" only to downplay the days reserved for Karbala tragedy.
Interesting thing is that the majority sect of Muslims has designed their religion in opposition to a minority sect. This is against intuition. Because it would have made more sense if minority sect had their religion designed against practices of majority sect. :)
Thus anything that shias do is made haram/forbidden/makrooh etc. by a certain class of clerics. One of the biggest example is Ashura.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
If ashoora jaloos is to protest the shahdat of Imam Hussain (ra), who are they protesting against and what relief are they seeking? The people responsible for that are long gone.
Obviously, you ain't got NO idea.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
Hazrat Imam Hussein (ra) was a great man who stood for the sanctity of the institution of Khilafat and against the transitioning towards kingship. The blood stained episode of karbala stands as a threshold that clearly distinguishes between genuine khilafat and mulookiat. The incident of karbala was indeed a tragedy but when we all know that he and his companions belong to Jannah (The holy prophet (pbuh) foretold about Imam's high stature in Jannah) and their afterlife is what a momin envies for then why are we keep on mourning his death. Instead of re-enactment of the painful and tragic events of karbala, why don't we focus more on what he stood for and his teachings. They are no more in pain. their murderers met with violent deaths in this world and I believe they will be paying for their ill-acts in the after-life then why perpetual mourning? We love our parents and when they pass away, we feel immense pain for not being able to see them, talk to them and benefit from their advises and prayers but when they leave this world, it becomes our duty to act as their successors so that whoever come in contact with us, he say good things about our parents. Same is true for the spiritual sons and daughters of our prophet and saints.
Well, Imam Hussain did not stand up for khilafat. This is the narrative which Yazid used to justify Imam's killing. And this is the same narrative used by similar people today.
Comparing Ahle Bait with our parents?! I think people don't understand the importance of Karbala because they don't share the importance and love of Ahle Bait with Prophet.
Secondly, one reason some people dislike Karbala commemoration is that it exposes the animosity of Banu Umayyads towards Prophet's family. There are people who consider khilafat of Banu Umayyad (and Banu Abbas) holy. They even call Yazid Raziallah Anhu.
For them it is understandably **painful **to be reminded of atrocities their holy figures committed against Ahle Bait.
It is for this reason that they concoct ahadith calling Ashura the day of celebration and great joys.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
[QUOTE]
Well, Imam Hussain did not stand up for khilafat. This is the narrative which Yazid used to justify Imam's killing. And this is the same narrative used by similar people today.
[/QUOTE]
What the heck are you saying? please don't get high before hitting your head against the tube. I said "for the sanctity of the institution of Khilafat". I am not talking about political power as you are trying to portray.
[QUOTE]
Comparing Ahle Bait with our parents?! I think people don't understand the importance of Karbala because they don't share the importance and love of Ahle Bait with Prophet.
[/quote]
No such comparison has been made. you must understand the difference between an example and equating. How can you say that we don't love ahle baite. We love them not just because of blood relation with the holy prophet(pbuh) but because of their supreme character and understanding of Islam owing to their noble upbringing.
[quote]
Secondly, one reason some people dislike Karbala commemoration is that it exposes the animosity of Banu Umayyads towards Prophet's family. There are people who consider khilafat of Banu Umayyad (and Banu Abbas) holy. They even call Yazid Raziallah Anhu.
For them it is understandably **painful **to be reminded of atrocities their holy figures committed against Ahle Bait.
It is for this reason that they concoct ahadith calling Ashura the day of celebration and great joys.
[/QUOTE]
Did you even read what I said. I said the Karbala incident was a high point in the transitioning of genuine Khilafat to Kingship. I consider yazeed a bad guy and not a khalifa at all.
enough said
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
please state your understanding of Imam Hussein's sacrifice in a paragraph.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
As far as I know, this procession for Karbala started during Abbasid period. In between, there was nothing like these procession. I would like to see historical references against this.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
The reference of Eid ul Aza was given. We don't celebrate this Eid because Ismael (as) was saved from the death. If that was the case, we should also be celebrating that Jesus(as) was saved from the hands of his enemies. We celebrate this Eid to commemorate the level of devotion and submission of Ibrahim (as) and Ismael (as) to their Creator.
Re: Example of annual commomoration and grievance
History of processions is much oldr than Lucknow unless u r talking exclusively abt Hindustan...go back to baghdad 1200 year back when mongols invaded nd there were both Shia and Sunni processions for various important dates....sunnis even had them for the day when abu bakr accompanied the prophet of islam saww in the cave!