Infoman
Are you sure that you are not 'jest kidding'.
A comedian is in the making.
I might even get a 'best of sholay' video debut.
Infoman and all the other hindu untouchables, please read and after you have put your tails between your legs and leave this thread for ever. When we talk about Hinduism, you can come back to defend that half-legged -ism with your cries while we'll throw some facts at you... saley!
Muslim-Christian Relations, The Good, the Bad
There were great times and there were the bad ones. Tolerance, respect and cooperation on one side. Murder, intolerance and hostility on the other. These have been some of the defining features of Muslim-Christian relations throughout history. Here are three examples of the good and the bad.
First the good memories:
- Habasha and the Negus
It was a Christian king in a predominantly Christian land who gave the small, persecuted community of early Muslims in the beginning of the Prophet Muhammad's mission. May Allah's peace and blessings be upon the Prophet.
The Muslims sought refuge in Habasha, modern day Ethiopia, after suffering starvation and torture at the hands of the polytheistic Makkans. The Prophet Muhammad said about the Negus and Habasha: "a king rules without injustice, a land of truthfulness."
Muslims were welcomed, were protected and lived in peace with the Christians of Habasha. But this did not sit well with the Makkans, who did not want to see them leave Makkah or want the message of Islam to flourish in peace.
They spent special envoys with gifts and lies about the Muslims to convince the Negus to send the Muslims back to Makkah.
They told the Negus that this "new" faith took pride in insulting not just ancestral Makkan beliefs, but the beliefs of Christians as well.
Another king may have simply taken their word and automatically kicked the Muslims out. The Negus did not. He ordered that the leader of the Muslim community come to his court and explain Islam’s position.
Enter Jafar ibn Abu Talib, early Muslim refugee to Habasha, and cousin of the Prophet.
Not only did he eloquently explain the message of Islam and the persecution of those who accepted this truthful message, he also recited the opening verses of Surah 19 of the Quran, Surah Maryam or Mary, after the Negus asked him to recite part of Quran.
King Negus listened to the recitation of the Quran in focused attention. He cried as he listened, so much so that his beard got wet. When Jafar completed the recitation, Negus said, ‘Surely this Revelation and the Revelation of Jesus were from the same Source.’ Then to the two Makkan ambassadors, he said, ‘By God, I will not hand over these persons to you."
But the story does not end here. The Makkans would not give up so easily. They asked the king to find out what the Muslims’ view of Jesus and his Divinity were, knowing of course, the difference in Christian and Muslim position regarding Jesus.
Again, Jafar responded, with no compromise of principles, just the simple, clear Truth:
'He (Jesus) is God’s servant and Messenger; a spirit and a word from God that He bestowed on the Virgin Mary.'
Upon hearing this, Negus picked up a straw from the ground and said:
‘By God, Jesus was not even as much as one straw more than what you have said about him.’
He returned the gifts of the Quraysh and told them he was not used to taking bribes and the Muslims would remain under his protection.
This was an early victory for positive Muslim-Christian relations.
- Umar ibn al-Khattab and Jerusalem
Jerusalem and its surrounding territory were and remain holy to Muslims, Christians and Jews. It was during the Caliphate of Omar ibn al-Khattab (634-635) that Muslims first gained leadership of this territory. May Allah be pleased with Omar.
The Muslim reaction to this victory is something to remember.
Omar entered Jerusalem in humility. He walked in with not he, the Caliph, but his servant comfortably riding on a camel. They had been taking turns walking and riding.
At one point in Jerusalem, the Christians asked him to pray in their church but he declined. He refused saying that he is afraid that in the future Muslims could use it as an excuse to take over the Church for building a Masjid.
The Christians gave the key of the Church of Resurrection to Muslims to be responsible for its safety. This key is still with the Muslims today as a sign and symbol of the mutual trust.
- Salah el Deen Ayyubi and the Crusades
It was in response to the horrific oppression in Jerusalem at the hands of the Crusaders in the 11th century and the need to free the area of their control that Sultan Salah el Deen Ayyubi (Saladin) liberated Jerusalem from them in 1187.
His arrival brought relief for the local Christian population, who helped him, after the oppression they suffered at the hands of their co-religionists, the Crusaders.
Not only did Saladin treat the Crusaders with kindness, he ensured that Muslim and non-Muslims live in peace and harmony with each other.
One particular story about him recounts that some Muslim soldiers were besieging a Christian fortress. Many Christians were seeking shelter inside, including a young couple who was planning to get married, but whose plans had been stopped by the fighting. They decided to get married anyway, even though they were trapped inside the castle.
Saladin was in charge of the Muslim troops at this time. When he heard about the wedding, he ordered his soldiers not to attack the castle where the couple was staying, so that they could enjoy peace and quiet. In return for this respect, the bride’s mother sent out trays of food, so Saladin and the Muslim army could share in the wedding celebrations.
Indeed the longest period of peace and justice for all in Jerusalem has been the period when Muslim were in control.
Now the bad news
- The Crusades
During the Crusades (1095 until 1291) European Christians attacked and occupied this holy land. They oppressed the Muslims, the local Christians and the Jews. These Crusaders killed over 200,000 innocent civilians.
The aim: to wrest control of Jerusalem from the Muslims. This was not only a period of bloodshed, hostility and violence. It was also the beginning of collective stereotypes, according to some scholars, about Islam and Muslims.
The Crusades ended centuries ago. But today, the remnants of those stereotypes have taken on new meaning. Muslims are still bloodthirsty, violent savages by most of the mainstream media’s standard. The propagation of these views on the collective level through the media has affected Muslims globally and locally.
Muslims in America, while living peacefully with Christians and other religious groups, are still subject to discrimination in at varying degrees, and physical violence and harassment in the worst cases (remember the aftermath of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing?).
While the Crusades were bad news for Muslims and even local Christians living alongside them, one significant outcome of this contact between Muslims and Western Christians was the passage of knowledge from one to the other.
Christians, through the Muslims, were able to access texts like those of Aristotle, for instance. The Muslims clearly passed on an intellectual heritage, which a number of scholars say laid the foundations for the modern Christian West. For more discussion of this, please see the book " Islam and the Discovery of Freedom by Rose Wilder Lane.
- Muslim Spain versus Christian Spain
Many Muslims look back at Muslim Spain with pride. But Jews also call it their "golden era".
Spain became part of the Islamic world at the beginning of the eighth century. Under Muslims Spain became the center of civilization. Although many local Spaniards embraced Islam, Christians and Jews were free in all aspects of their lives. The Muslims respected their religion and institutions. The result was the birth of the first true cosmopolitan culture in the West.
Christians studied alongside Muslim scholars to such a degree that in 854, a Christian named Alvaro of Cordoba complained that these students were forgetting their own religion and culture.
Muslims and Christians of Spain did not live in their ghettos, isolated and not cooperating in various aspects of daily life together.
It was in Spain that Aristotle’s works on physics and natural history were translated into Arabic from Greek in Muslim Spain. Historians generally acknowledge that the Muslim world proved to be a major conduit of ancient scholarship into the West, especially through Muslim Spain.
It wasn’t just Muslims and Christians who thrived in Spain, though. Jews, who were reviled and hated elsewhere, were not only living safely and peacefully alongside non-Jews in Muslim Spain, they were learning and contributing to its culture and knowledge which Muslim scholars had established.
But this success in wealth, knowledge and co-existence came to end in a violent and very sad way.
As Christian Crusaders of Spain expelled Muslims, civilization that took centuries to build was destroyed. Muslims and Jews were either expelled or forced to convert to Christianity. Millions died as tolerance was replaced by the Spanish Inquisition. A suspected Muslim was to be killed for the smallest act resembling Islamic tradition - such as taking a bath on Friday.
- European colonialism (1500s to the early 20th century)
European colonialism was such a powerful force that by 1900 90.4 percent of Africa was under European or American colonial control. This was a political and economic phenomenon that began in the 1500s. Various European nations "discovered", conquered, and exploited large areas of the world.
In a quest for silk, spices and world domination, European explorers, like Christopher Columbus, for instance, set out to sea. He ended up in North America. The result: the slaughter and destruction of millions of Natives and the usurpation of their land by Europeans.
In Muslim lands, colonialists wreaked havoc, supplanting Islamic educational systems with secular or Christianity-focused ones, and murdering and/or enslaving the natives of the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East, for example.
They also acculturated the "savage" natives to the "refined" customs of Europe. In the Indian subcontinent today, the term "Brown Sahib" is used to refer to a native who is mentally colonized by the West. There are similar stock characters in other Muslim cultures.
- Armenia-slaughter at the hands of Muslims, early 20th century
The predominantly Christian Armenians consider the greatest disaster in their history to be their murder and deportation from Turkey during World War I.
In 1915 as Turkish Armenians aligned with the pro-Christian Tsarist Russian enemy, Turkish army reacted strongly against this betrayal. Although, according to Encyclopedia Britannica, statistics are disputed regarding the Armenian population in Ottoman Anatolia at the outbreak of World War I and the number of Armenians killed during this deportation, a large number of Armenians died during this civil war.
Those Turkish Armenians who survived migrated to places predominantly Muslim Lebanon and Syria, as well as Russia, France, and the United States.
- Current relations between the Muslims and Christians
Today 70% of all refugees in the world are Muslims. In Muslim mind many of this refugees and other conflicts are a result of their powerlessness.
Muslims feel culturally enslaved, in many ways to the predominantly Christian West. The United States, with the new geopolitical reality of uni-polar world, continues to dictate policies to smaller nations of the world.
This new form of colonialism is done with the help of local lackeys in Muslim countries who take their orders about how their countries should be run from Washington, D.C. as opposed to locally.
On a larger level, British, French, American and Russian colonial powers (all Western, and all predominantly Christian) also control Muslim and other Third World countries through international institutions like the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and the United Nations. These three organizations have an extraordinary influence on world affairs.
This excessive power over the lives of millions is perceived by a number of Muslims as the continuing perpetuation of the colonial era. For most Muslims, colonialism is not about the spread of "refined European civilization". It is about massacre, slavery, and weakness. It is nothing to proudly look back upon.
The fight against tobacco
One example of modern American colonialism can be found with the fight against tobacco in the United States.
In the last eight years, the tobacco industry in the USA has lost business because of public health awareness campaigns against smoking. But in the same period the industry has achieved the record profits. How?
They now have an open market to sell their deadly products to Third World consumers, thanks to the help of the American government. So cancer is bad for Americans, but it’s okay for others. Where is the justice?
Despots and dictators: not in my backyard, but fine for yours
A second example of Western neo-colonialism is found in these countries’ support for corrupt dictators, totalitarian despots and anti-democratic forces in the Muslim world. Muslims question how sincere the Western belief in justice and democracy really is when this happens.
For instance, the government of France supported the Algerian army when it canceled elections following the victory at the ballot of the Islamic Salvation Front party in 1992. France is the country famed for "liberty, equality and fraternity". It seems this is not what they had in mind for the Muslims in their former colonial baby, Algeria.
The United States, which touts "freedom and democracy" has similarly supported undemocratic regimes in Muslim and other countries. Justice, it seems, is not for all, especially not Muslims.
The neo-colonial "F" word
The Western obsession with Islamic "Fundamentalism" provides a third example of the tense current Muslim-Christian relationship can be.
Virtually any form of Muslim worship, but especially the daily prayer, one of the five pillars of Islam, is shown on TV while talking about fundamentalism and fanaticism. A purely Christian term from America is being applied in any Muslim, organization, or country which opposes America.
See an interesting book about the Muslim perceptions of the West: "Western Fundamentalism in Action..New World Order " by Dr. S.M. Koreshi".
Still Some Examples of Cooperation:
But amid these examples of New World Order colonialism and tense Muslim-Christian relations, there are some bright spots.
Politically, the war in Afghanistan during the 1980s following the occupation of the country by the communist ex-Soviet Union was a common rallying point for the East and the West. The United States supported the Mujahideen at that time.
In the 1990s, the West did eventually come to the aid of Muslims following massacres, rapes and the oppression of Muslims in Bosnia and Kosova.
On the level of faith, the 1994 United Nations Conference on Population in Cairo, Egypt, became a platform for Muslim and Catholic cooperation against forces of secularization and birth control in the guise of "family planning".
Finally, it is somewhat ironic that while Muslims resent the Western support for dictatorships in their countries, they turn to the West when seeking to escape the oppression in their countries. Anti-Shah revolutionaries were essentially based in the West.
It is not uncommon to find Muslim refugees escaping to Germany, France, Britain, America and Canada. While many of them are economic migrants, seeking a better life for themselves and their families on a financial level, there are also those escaping political turmoil and corruption in their home countries.
"I am not playing with a full deck!"
First of all many christians even think that jesus is god, not even son of god.
Secondly Islam is more natural than chritanity.
Anand, if I kill your brotehr will u present me urself to be killed or o for a revenge?
Advantages of christianity : You can eat salame, peperoni, enjoy wine, do not have to bend ur knees five time a day.
Advantages of Islam: You can have four wives. You can enter malasia without visa. also the biryani and some other recipes are very delicious.
A practical guide.
Abdul Bullsit: I can't make out the drivel that you have written. Thanks for the catalog of the muslim-christian interactions but the fact remains that while other religions have evolved, islam has not. The medieval thinking has remained in absolutes has been established and is promoted thorugh myopic unbending practices.
As Islam is a neophyte , it is understandable, in a few years maybe there will be an islamic reformation and people can go back to seeking god instead of worrying about whether lipstick is unislamic because mohammed never wore lipstick.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
peperoni can be enjoyed by muslims as well
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
Loved that
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
*“na maiN momin vich masiitaaN, na maiN muusaa, na fir’aun!”
*
[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
**Abdul Bullsit: I can't make out the drivel that you have written. Thanks for the catalog of the muslim-christian interactions but the fact remains that while other religions have evolved, islam has not. The medieval thinking has remained in absolutes has been established and is promoted thorugh myopic unbending practices. .....
**
[/quote]
whether it actually goes thru reformation or not, but beleive me true Islam does not need reformation and it will never accept Cow as God, or Elephant as God or anything as GOD except the ONLY one, ALLAH. its pillars shall remain as defined 1400 years ago.
what you call as 'reformation' or 'evolution' has shown to Hindus that their practice/religion is incomplete and needs 'repair and maintenance' every now and then, we have seen Christians going against the teachings of their Prophet Jesus AH.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
whether it actually goes thru reformation or not, but believe me true Islam **does not need reformation **and it will never accept Cow as God, or Elephant as God or anything as GOD except the ONLY one, ALLAH. its pillars shall remain as defined 1400 years ago.
[/quote]
Bros, It's of no use this guy won't listen to you anyway.
“na maiN* momin vich masiitaa*N, na maiN* muusaa, na fir'aun!”
*
hey ali_r can i assume that the peperoni was not from pig?? because from you posts u seem kinda moderate religious, but agian, i have seen even muslims eat pig so wouldnt be surprised about it now.
Infoman,
Islam is for ALL nations, ALL times and ALL generations. That is the beauty of this religion. It changes people, it doesn't change it self so it can fit the changes that people go through. It makes black brother of white, it brings tribes together, it MAKES YOU HUMAN once again.
What does christianity give you? Worshipping ghosts? Hating blacks and thinking that whites are superior? Drinking beer and then making total hindu/stupid out of your self?
Islam does not divide people according to their class, color and how much income they bring home. Islam teaches us to respect each other and to defend our self and our religion when attacked directly or indirectly.
What does Christianity give you? crusaders and mass killing of people through out the land? Injustice, maltreatment, and back-biting to the people?
What did hinduISM give to this world or better yet, to india where it has been confined to for 4000 years? yes, it gave india and this world mass cows not that your women are any different than those. Hinduism teaches hate and despair among its own people. Hinduism teaches you to burn women if their husband dies and to consider them inferior... hinduism teaches you to worship nothing but ANIMALS the VERY LESS beings of this planet-who can't even reason and you hindus consider them GODS-how stupid.
You should be ashamed of yourselves to come here and mock the greatest religion of all times and that is why it is growing so fast even when people of your kind and christians have tried to put scar on its face.
Now that I have made pribbling hasty-witted flap-dragon out of you with REASONING. Why don't you put that hate, anger, and hate where sun doesn't shine and let christians and Muslims discuss what this thread was intended to discuss. Otherwise you will be one sorry spleeny white-livered mammet!
"I am not playing with a full deck!"
[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited October 02, 2001).]
well said abul basit. some ppl r full of ignoracne they will never get the truth so there is no point explaining!!
well i just wanted a written proof or a quranic source that would tell the exact difference between these two religions bcz i have this christian brother who is willing to learn about islam and he wants very exact, correct and brief informatoin so he can get started on it and then get to know to quran and stuff....it willl take him a yr or so to get to know islam, quran and other main issues of it....
i just wanted to get him start on it....he is white, canadian born, and he took world religions (subject at school) with me and kind of felt that islam makes sense whereas christianity doesnt sound right to him.....so he wanted to go in depth b4 actually he goes to some muslim ullama/mullah, he wants to have some sort of background of what islam is and hmmm the exact difference between christanity and islam....
[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**
What does christianity give you? Worshipping ghosts? Hating blacks and thinking that whites are superior? Drinking beer and then making total hindu/stupid out of your self?
**
[/quote]
Islam makes abdul basits out of u. those who think that christianity means worshipping ghosts and drinking beer, those who think that christianity is racist (in fact jesus was asia and same country as mohammad).
islam leads to bigots like abdul basit who believe that stupidity is same as hinduism, whie having no intellectual achievements worth its name in muslims god knows how many yrs and all they will talk about will be couple of mathematicians in middle ages.
islam leads to nations like pakistan who cant accept sole nobel prize winner of their country (abdus salam) just beacuse he was not muslim
christianity leads to lolerant nations like america who will send satelite 'chandra' in honor of chandrashekha who was neither christian (was hindu) nor born in US (born in lahore, now pakistan).
if abdul basit represents islam, it is better dug 10 feet deep and buried, never to see it again.
Islam is bonded to definitions.
Our friends always come with the notions of true Islam and false Islam.
Cannot be there just Islam?
And dear Rehaan, if your friend really wants to know Islam, let him visit some conservative Arab country and examine the existence, nature of Islam and Muslims.
For last 14 centuries these people have still not decided what Islam is true and what Islam is false.
[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
**Abdul Bullsit: I can't make out the drivel that you have written. Thanks for the catalog of the muslim-christian interactions but the fact remains that while other religions have evolved, islam has not. The medieval thinking has remained in absolutes has been established and is promoted thorugh myopic unbending practices.
As Islam is a neophyte , it is understandable, in a few years maybe there will be an islamic reformation and people can go back to seeking god instead of worrying about whether lipstick is unislamic because mohammed never wore lipstick.
**
[/quote]
My Dear Infoman ,Don't bother,Islam is Endangered Religion,It will last till 2007 after that it disappears,main reason will be jihad,Regards
Human
Dear Rehaan, The fundamental and most important difference in all faiths is who is the Creator and who should be worshipped.
Hence In Islam, Muslims worship Allah (ever Glorified be He) as the sole Creator and other faiths including Christianity have various entities that may replace him .
** In Christianity the Creator is being replaced by Christ as the savior in Islam anyone being equated with the Creator will amount to blasphemy. **
So let us look at what the Bible says concerning Allah =written as God or Father in Christianity.
GOD: ** Qualities ill-befitting God— **
(a) A hissing God (?) ISAIAH 5:26, 7: 18, ZECHARIA 10:8
(b) A "roaring" God (?) ISAIAH 42:13, JEREMIAH 25:30
(c) A "barber" God (?) ISAIAH 7:20
(d) A "penitent" God (?) JEREMIAH 15:6, GENESIS 6:6
(e) A God "riding" a cherub (?) 2 SAMUEL 22:11
(f) A God murders 50,070 for looking into a box (?) SAMUEL 6:19
** GOD WITH A SMALL "g":** In Arabic, Hebrew and Greek there is no differentiation between a capital "G" for God, and a small "g" for god, as in the languages of the Western countries today; yet the Christians have played fast and loose when translating the Bible i.e.
(a) " In whom the god (the Devil) of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not "2 Cor 4:4
(b) "And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. " Exodus 7:1
Compare the above with JOHN 1:1, where the Christians have used capital "G"'s and "W"'s when referring to Jesus.
GOD: ** His contradictory attributes— **
(a) "No man hath seen God at any time John 1: 18
(b) " (God) whom no man hath seen, nor can see .,."I TIMOTHY 6:16
(c) "And he (God) said, Thou canst see my face: for there shall no man see me, and 1ive. EXODUS 33:20
Contradicted by:
(a) "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend Exodus 33:11
(b) 'And they (Moses, Aaron and seventy others) saw the God of Israel . ." EXODUS 24:10
(c) "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved GENESIS 32:30
And as a special favor God shows his back parts to Moses "And I (God) will take away my hand and thou shalt see my back parts . . . " EXODUS 33:23
GOD: ** Is not a fabricator of confusion— **
(a) "For God is NOT the author of confusion . ." I CORINTHIANS 14:33
Contradicted by".
(b) " . . I make peace, and CREATE EVIL . . ." ISAIAH 45:7 (by But the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and AN EVIL SPIRIT from the Lord troubled him. I SAMUEL 16:14
(c) "And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should BELIEVE A LIE." 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1 1
GOD: ** Further contradictory qualities— **
(a) GOD AS AN OMNIPOTENT BEING: "And Jesus saith . for with God ALL THINGS are possible MARK 10:27, also MATTHEW 19:26
Contradicted by. "And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain, but COULD NOT drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had Chariots OF IRON." JUDGES 1:19
(b) GOD'S ANGER ABIDETH FOR A MINUTE: For his (God's) anger endureth but a MOMENT." PSALMS 30:5 .
Contradicted by: " And the lord's anger was kindled against Israel and he made them (the Jews) wander in the wilderness FORTY YEARS..." NUMBERS 32:13
(c) GOD DOES NOT SHOW ANY SELF-REPROACH: "God is not a mar, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent . . ." NUMBERS 23:19
Contradicted by. " . . and the Lord REPENTED that he made Saul king over Israel " SAMUEL 15:35 Also: ; And the Lord REPENTED of the evil which he thought to do unto his people (Israel)" EXODUS 32:14
(d) GOD'S MERCY ENDURETH FOR EVER "For the Lord is good; and his mercy is Everlasting." PSALMS 100:5
Contradicted by: "I (God) remember that which Amalek did to Israel (four hundred years before) . . . Now go and smite Amalek and UTTERLY DESTROY ALL they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass (the donkey) I SAMUEL 15:3
(e) GOD DWELLS IN LIGHT: " . . (God) dwelling in the LIGHT which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see . . " 1 TIMOTHY 6:16
Contradicted by: "Then spake Solomon, the Lord said that he would dwell in the Thick Darkness." 1 Kings 8:12
(f) GOD DOES NOT ENTICE MAN: 'Let no man say he is tempted, I am TEMPTED of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, NEITHER TEMPTETH he any man" JAMES 1:13
Contradicted by: 'And it came to pass after these things, that God DID TEMPT Abraham . " GENESIS 22:1
Ibrahim says; The above compilation was done by Bro. Ahmed Deedat and now to compare this with what Islam teaches.
In Islam You will NEVER find any misconceptions or misleading statements concerning Allah.
Mankind only needs to read the following to understand the Creator and his attributes.
** 112:1-4
1 Say: He is Allah the One and Only;
2 Allah the Eternal Absolute;
3 He begetteth not nor is He begotten;
4 And there is none like unto Him **
And we are further told
** 2: 255 Allah! there is no Allah but He the living the Self-subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of his knowledge except as He willeth. His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory) **
hence this two passages sums up all that one needs to know about his Creator and discounts all the confusion that Jews and Christians harbor concerning their Creator. Which is the reason for the Torah and Gospel to be abrogated by the Qur’an.
** If 99.9% was good enough, then 12 babies will be given to the wrong parents each day in the maternity ward! **
as such tell your friend to establish who is his Creator first before heading on to other points of contention.
[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited October 03, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
For three quarters of a mile, Islam,Christianity and Judaism are on the same track. The differences appear in the last quarter mile when we part ways in order to reach the destination.
Unfortunately Anands Faith is left at the starting line!!!!!!!!
**
[/quote]
By This we can Predict who uncivilized our Sholay is
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** whether it actually goes thru reformation or not, but beleive me true Islam does not need reformation and it will never accept Cow as God, or Elephant as God or anything as GOD except the ONLY one, ALLAH. its pillars shall remain as defined 1400 years ago.
what you call as 'reformation' or 'evolution' has shown to Hindus that their practice/religion is incomplete and needs 'repair and maintenance' every now and then, we have seen Christians going against the teachings of their Prophet Jesus AH.
**
[/quote]
Cow is not A god but a sacred Animal because
in olden age cow is used for our daily necessitites,like milk, cow dung as fire and many ,as it gives milk cow is treated as mother,tell me whoever will not give respect to their mother
Ibrahim says: Hey Humanity!
actually you are right in saying the cow is not a god in one sense but on the other hand according to the mahabaratha your goddess laxmi agrees to live in their dung and urine, hence their sacred nature and belief that they are holy even by your hindu goddess.
HINDU GODDESS LAXMI DWELLS IN COW DUNG & URINE
Laxmi is also known as Sri.
“The goddess of fortune (Sri) left the demons and went to the gods. After many years she went to the cows and asked to dwell within them; at first they refused, since she was so inconstant and fickle; at last ** she said, ‘No part of your bodies is disgusting; let me live somewhere in you.’ The cows agreed to let her dwell in their urine and dung.”** – Mahabharata 13:81:1-86.
Not. only that
HINDU CLEANSING RITUAL FOR HAVING DRUNK ALCOHOL
pancagavya: milk, yogurt, butter, and the urine & excrement of a cow (the five cow-products meant for consumption in Hindu rituals).
The following is a very important Ayurvedic treatment including cow urine & liquid cow dung to purify Hindus who have drunk alcohol:
“A twice-born man so deluded that he has drunk liquor should drink boiling-hot liquor, and when his body has been scalded by it he is freed from that offence. ** Or he may drink boiling-hot cow’s urine, water, milk, clarified butter, or liquid cow dung until he dies.” ** – Manusmrti 11:91-92.
** hence the cow is not just respected like a mother but treated like a god in hinduism. **
Ibrahim says : READ!
what cow means to hindus and how they lie that it was not eaten by hindus in the past…
After ‘Water’ & Bachchan, Varanasi’s culture police target 'Holy Cow’By Vinay Krishna Rastogi in Lucknow
Pundits in Varanasi ** have threatened to organise a nation-wide agitation if the government does not ban the book, Holy Cow: Beef in the Indian Dietary Tradition. **
An emergency meeting of four major organisations of Varanasi would be held on August 21 to decide on the plan of agitation and to make any sacrifice to oppose “anti-national forces trying to destroy Indian culture and tradition”. The controversial ** book by Prof. D N Jha, a historian of the Delhi University, says that Aryan Hindus were beef eaters.** He also allegedly quoted the Vedas as saying that offering beef to Brahmins was auspicious. The Kashi Sanskriti Raksha Sangharsh Samiti (KSRSS) spokesperson Dr K K Mishra alleged that the book has been written with mala fide intentions to wrongly establish that ancient Hindus ate cow’s flesh.
The KSRSS, The Kashi Vidwat Parishad (Varanasi’s Intellectual Council), Ved Parayan Kendra and Girvan Wad Vardhani Sabha ** have collectively branded Jha as a foreign agent trying to broke the social fabric of the country. ** KSRSS which burnt the sets of controversial film “Water” and forced its producer Deepa Mehta last year to leave Varanasi without conducting photo shooting of the film. It was Ved Parayan Kendra which had raised objections against mega star Amitabh Bachchan for reciting “Gayatri Mantra” wearing shoes in the blockbuster Mohabbatein. The four organisations have vowed not to tolerate systematic and consistent efforts to insult the Holy Vedas, Gayatri Mantra, the Holy river Ganga and Gau Mata (Mother Cow). ** The beef controversy has gripped the state with RSS , VHP, Shiv Sena and Bajran Dal demanding that the book must be banned. **
READ ABOUT THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE BEEF/MEAT Eating habits IN HINDUISM in the past.
*** Cow Killing in Hindu Scriptures **
It is interesting to note that the cow used to be slaughtered by the Hindus to enjoy its beef, entertain the guests and offer it as sacrifice to their deities. Mahatma Ghandi himself said: “I know there are scholars who tell us that cow-sacrifice is mentioned in the Vedas. I… read a sentence in our Sanskrit text-book to the effect that Brahmins of old [period] used to eat beef.” (M.K. Ghandi, ‘Hindu Dharma’, New Delhi, 1991, p. 120)
There are clear evidences in the Rig Veda that the cow used to be sacrificed by Hindus for religious purposes. For instance, Hymn CLXIX of the Rig Veda says:
“May the wind blow upon our cows with healing; may they eat herbage… Like-coloured various-hues or single-coloured whose names through sacrifice are known to Agni, Whom the Angirases produced by Ferbvour - vouchsafe to these, Parjanya, great protection. Those who have offered to the gods their bodies whose varied forms are all well known to Soma.” (Rig Veda, CLXIX, trans. by Ralph H. Griffith, New York, 1992, p. 647)
In the Rig Veda, Agni is described as “fed on ox and cow” clearly showing that cattle were sacrificed and roasted in fire. Another hymn (Rig Veda X.16.7) mentions the ritual enveloping of the corpse with cow flesh before applying the fire on it.
In the Brahmanas at 1.15 in the Aiteriya Brahmana, the kindling of Agni on the arrival of Kind Some is compared to the slaughter of a bull or a barren cow on the arrival of a human king or other dignitary.
Similarly, at II.1.11.1 in the Taiteriya Brahmana and XXXI.14.5 in the Panchavinsha Brahmana, the rishi Agastya is credited with the slaughter of a hundred bulls.
In verse III.1.2.21 in the Satapatha Brahmana, sage Yajnavalkaya asserts that even though the cow is the supporter of everyone, he would eat beef “if it is luscious”.
At IV.5-2.1 in the same Brahmana, it is said that a barren cow can be slaughtered in the Some
sacrifice. Not only for religious purposes, but also for other purposes one could kill a cow and eat beef.
Thus, at II.4.2 of the same Brahmana, it is suggested that a fat bull or fat goat should be sacrificed in honour of an important guest.
Similarly, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishadah (VI.4.18) advises a couple to take an evening
meal of beef or veal pulao, if they desire to beget a son who is learned in the Vedas (Robert Trumball, ‘As I See India’, London, 1957, p. 241) *
Humanity
Can you please define the term Civilised and Uncivilsed, as once again we see you using words which you do not understand. Maybe you just heard them on a radio or TV station and thought ' yes they sound very good and intellectual' so next time I'll use them and pretend to be intelligent.
You know as well as I do that your lot are the last people in the World to dictate and advise Mankind. Like I stated before, you have been left at the starting line! So stay put.
Infoman
You have finally hit the nail on the head by stating that Islam has not changed despite other Faiths changing over the years.
This proves without a shadow of a doubt (if their ever was one), Islam has been Divinely Protected and is Superior to all other Faiths and is the ONLY Religion.
Where your Faiths have been changing over the years and centuries in order to please Mankind for Political, Economical and Sexual reasons. Islam has remained steadfast in it's original format for the salvation and benefit of all Humanity.
A superior leader will remain steadfast in his decision and practice despite the weaker minority around him changing like the weather in order to achieve personal gains.
Tommorrow you will move your goalposts just because Joe Bloggs said so!!!
zz,
First of all get your facts right. Asia is NOT a country it is a continent, Mohammad was born in Makkah, Saudia and Jesus was born in Palestine-not same countries.
And yes, hinduism is more than being stupid. Its so stupid that it makes the greatest of Gods creations worship the most low beings of Gods creation. It so stupid that it believes in washing your self with urine and not with water. Its so stupid, it teaches hate among people who are hindus. No, wonder hinduism is still confined only to india and we thank our God for keeping non-sense and stupidity where it belongs.
Islam is way of life, it created mathimaticians when most of the world was in dark ages and ignorant. What did christianity accomplish, besides carrying out many massacres of helpless people? And people of same era slaved and killed even more helpless people of Africa-blacks. And for next 400 years blacks are still faced with racial profiling and prejudice and who is doing that? The beholders of Christianity. How long will it take christians to get rid of this race prejudice thing? Never. On the other hand, Islam eliminated this problem in no time, as I said it makes you brother with the people whome christians considers low-lives. And it accomplishes that in just few minutes.
Also, lets make one thing clear. There is no nation which is practicing Islam today. So, saying that Pakistan is doing what ever it is doing and call it Islam, that is wrong. You should be aware of this fact before uttering non-sense(not that its a new thing) about such issues.
Christianity creates nation like US who kill Muslims and let their allies carry out mass murders of Muslims. Tolerant, yes in their own country. They can’t even tolerate a Muslim country wanting to govern it self with Islamic Law and declare it terrorist state the next morning? Is that tolerance? That is saying: We don’t like you or your religion. Even though they know Islam gives people more rights than their so called democratic civilized nations. They know Islam gives Women respect and their rights which christian women fail to get from their oppressors.
Anyway, like it or not:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
Islam is mashallah still the fastest growing religion in world, women are still coming into this religion in herds! They know they will be respected and given thier rights and stand shoulder to shoulder with men who respect them and not use them for their sexual and political goals- very opposite of what Christian America is doing to their women, I don’t want to give any examples you are involved in such horrible acts to know your self.
Well, that Abdul Basit has put you back at your place. Now, go take shower in cow dung/urine(what ever you dirty people do).
“I am not playing with a full deck!”