Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
I am sure people that are praying for great President Musharaf's ouster have all the answers with regards to 'what next'. Only the great President Musharaf has kept Pakistan together post 9/11. :)
Do you have an answer of post Musharraf because he will go one day or the other?
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Do you have an answer of post Musharraf because he will go one day or the other?
I believe there is map that has been posted on GS. :)
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Exactyl!
But the question rather is how to get rid off all those major, col., brigs. and generals, who are dominating Pak politics and govt. institutions. :k:
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
^^ Army is backing off i think, they are calling back all the soldiers from civilian departments. It will take time but President Musharraf will remain in charge thats for sure. Lets see who will form the new government.
God bless President Musharraf 
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
^Backing off? And all the property business they are in. Where ever col. named like two - three stores to his? Uska kiya ho ga? No one can take that back from them.
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
it's very simply people...as I said in the article...military rule should continue until responsible mature politicans arise. I would rather have military rule than have a party (PPP) in power. For god sakes they elect an 19 year old kid...can you imagine how the rest of their decisions will be like?
Also, on the other hand you have the great Nawaz Sharif. He declared war on Jang newspaper...and he also lied to the pakistani public time and time again...NO i have no deal...Wait a minute...I do...but it was for 5 years
Lastly we have Imran Khan...who I don't want to get into, because I would be more than surprised if he recieves more than 5,000 votes. He's just a poster boy and always will be.
So ladies and gentlemen, unless you can prove what I have said otherwise, you should agrea with me, that under the present circumstances, and under the quality of failed political parties...we should not only accept but embrace Musharraff and the army as a reasonable alternative.
Many will say institutions under military governments do not prosper.
Name me one institution that did prosper under democratic governments? Just one?
Atleast the media and economy prospered under the military!
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Where did my post go responding to this post? It wasn’t offensive, its weird someone pointing disintegration of Pakistan is let alone while the response has been removed. 
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
The problem is not with Elections. Heck they are the best way to get rid of the undesired elements.
The real question is what you "put into" the election system. The old adage of "garbage in garbage out" holds really good for the election system the way it has been used in Pakistan.
How we use elections in Pakistan?
We use them on highly undemocratic, fiefdoms of parties. This garbage of politics based on personal jagirs, mafioso leaders, and egotistic maniacs turn each of these parties into a big pile of garbage.
When parties cannot hold free and fare elections within themselves, then we cannot expect anything good coming out national elections.
Time has come for the election commission to hold primary elections of each party.
Time has come for the election commission to deregister tonga parties.
Once these parties are taken away from the remote pilots like Altaf, or corrupt pilots like Zardari and given to the rightfully elected men and women, then only then national elections will produce something good for the country.
Using undemocratic parties to bring democracy in the country is like beating the dead horse. And you all know the dead horses start walking if you beat them for 200 years. NOT!
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
So ladies and gentlemen, unless you can prove what I have said otherwise, you should agrea with me, that under the present circumstances, and under the quality of failed political parties...we should not only accept but embrace Musharraff and the army as a reasonable alternative.
60 years is not enough for you to learn that leadership doesn't prosper under dictatorships? Military rules have resulted in leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein and you already know their capabilities. And still you want army to remain in control waiting for a messiah leader to come from skies and solve our problems.
Things will evolve, give people justice system (free of govt influence), provide law enforcement, setup accountability of govt officials and within a decade or two people will see the fruits of electing their representative.
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
^Backing off? And all the property business they are in. Where ever col. named like two - three stores to his? Uska kiya ho ga? No one can take that back from them.
All the property business, a Book published "army inc." and suddenly everyone knows about army in business. My reply was about at least appreciate if they are doing something good. or.. keep going with criticizing ....
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
All the property business, a Book published "army inc." and suddenly everyone knows about army in business. My reply was about at least appreciate if they are doing something good. or.. keep going with criticizing ....
Well thats how It works in Pakistan. only proof makes you issue arrest warants and since Mafia Army is into a lot of businesses these days and having all under control even such "proofs" are worth nothing then.
Regarding the good work. How about a link so that we can read on the good work?
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
60 years is not enough for you to learn that leadership doesn't prosper under dictatorships? Military rules have resulted in leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein and you already know their capabilities. And still you want army to remain in control waiting for a messiah leader to come from skies and solve our problems.
Things will evolve, give people justice system (free of govt influence), provide law enforcement, setup accountability of govt officials and within a decade or two people will see the fruits of electing their representative.
Sir, I was not referring to the history of Pakistan...I was referring to recent military governments and the coup of 1999. Why did this coup happen?...Because of 10 years of incompetent officials which were voted in by the government.
The army completes a function that democratic parties should complete...; removing incomepetent politicians. If demoratic parties completed that function, the military would have no moral ground in removing these elected governments.
Why is it that whenever the military overthrows a democratically elected leader, the streets of Pakistan are filled with jubilation? Why? Is it because the people are fed up with severe incompetency?
What you say, about things evolving is a dream and a joke! Perhaps if you view the realities of Pakistan you would ask yourself how can there be justice, when politians get away with murder? How can there be accountability when the governments themselves are not accountable?
If the political parties that exist currently, run the country for the next decade or two, the country will become a failed state again (as it was after 10 years of sham democracy), and instead of these fruits, what will be created, will be a breed of super looters and supreme criminal politicans.
My view is quite simple; Whats the point of elections when the same failed leaders will come back in power? Will anything change?
PPP- corrupt, feudal to the core
PML-N - No, i never made a deal...wait a minute I did for only 5 years
PML-Q - Supposedly the reason why the problems exist
So WHO TO ELECT?? Electing someone, just for the hell of electing someone...is not going to solve any problems...now is it?
It's like what my friends father said to him "Don't get married, just for the hell of it...it will ruin your life. Wait for however long, and get married to someone who is worthwile getting married to."
I hope you get my point.
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Sir, I was not referring to the history of Pakistan...I was referring to recent military governments and the coup of 1999. Why did this coup happen?...Because of 10 years of incompetent officials which were voted in by the government.
You were not referring to history of Pakistan, I was. Today's problems of Pakistan didn't originate from 1990s era of Benazir/Nawaz circus. It stems from the fact that we had our first martial law within 1st 11years of freedom. It lasted for 12 years, then we went thru civil war. In 1977 another martial law took over which lasted 11 years thru 1988. During martial laws there is no political system, there are psuedo-democracies where boot-lickers get to become ruler of country and people like Nawaz Sharif become "politicians/leaders" who then go on and get elected as "Prime Minister".
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The army completes a function that democratic parties should complete...; removing incomepetent politicians. If demoratic parties completed that function, the military would have no moral ground in removing these elected governments.
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Army never let democracy stabilise for long enough to filter out bad fish.
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Why is it that whenever the military overthrows a democratically elected leader, the streets of Pakistan are filled with jubilation? Why? Is it because the people are fed up with severe incompetency?
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It is because of false image that army will fix the corrupt elements, army shouts slogans of accountability. Why is that every army rule ends with street violation? Ayub, Zia and now growing violence/unrest under Musharraf.
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What you say, about things evolving is a dream and a joke! Perhaps if you view the realities of Pakistan you would ask yourself how can there be justice, when politians get away with murder? How can there be accountability when the governments themselves are not accountable?
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Tell me how army has fixed all that, I am all ears.
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If the political parties that exist currently, run the country for the next decade or two, the country will become a failed state again (as it was after 10 years of sham democracy), and instead of these fruits, what will be created, will be a breed of super looters and supreme criminal politicans.
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It means that the system of accountability is not in place. We need democracy alongwith strong independent judiciary, law enforcement as well as other institutions... without these ingredients we are bound to fail as a society whether its under name of "Democracy" or "Army-controlled-Dictatorship/Democracy".
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My view is quite simple; Whats the point of elections when the same failed leaders will come back in power? Will anything change?
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So what do you want to do? Keep army in power? or Put institutions in place which will make everyone accountable? or outsource govt to India or USA?
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Well said :k:
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Y.......Army never let democracy stabilise for long enough to filter out bad fish. ....
Ehtasab sahib!
This is just a cop out. Army is not god, they simply step in when "undemocratic" political parties bring anarchy in the country.
You cannot fight anarchy with democracy. SriLanka's example proves the point. SriLankan were the most literate, educated nation in the whole region, and still the undemocratic practices of Tamilian Hindus and Sinhala Buddhist have turned that beautiful island into Afghanistan.
BDesh had exact same problem in recent years. Their Jagiri / feudal parties of Hasina wajib and Khalida Zia couldn't work "democratically". The result has been army rule. Remember that people love to call Bengalis as the most "democratic" nation in the whole region.,
It is easy to do pigeon eyed analysis of one country and start blaming one party or the other. This is not scientific analysis. It is rather emotional outburst based on stereotypical views.
you can continue putting "undemocratic parties" through national elections for the next 200 years. The outcome will be the same anarchy. And army as a last resort will continue stepping in.
So look around, study, and then increase your sample size before making knee jerk decisions. Thank you.
Re: Elections will not Solve Pakistan’s Problems
Ehtasab sahib!
you can continue putting "undemocratic parties" through national elections for the next 200 years. The outcome will be the same anarchy. And army as a last resort will continue stepping in.
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Unfortunately the Amry has this habit to butt in before the worse has ever happened. And to take charge of matters where It should concentrate on home security and military strategic related matters, then rather focus on plundering out the last financial ressources of Its own country. Dont you think!?