In light of the fact that Saudis are moving towards democracy does this mean that they recognise the fact that the version of Islam they have been preaching worldwide is now redundant?
Should members on these boards continue to support it when the guardians of the faith no longer do?
Saudia does not have Islamic Khilafa per se… It’s more like “Malookiyah” as Rasoolulah :saw: said:
**
“The Caliphate will remain in my nation after me for thirty years. Then, it will be a monarchy after that.”**
[Ahmad, Tirmidhi and others, Sahih Al-Jami` ’ As-Saghir no. 3341].
You can nitpick about what’s a khilafa and what isn’t but this pretty much sums up the situation of Saudi position last year and now the shift towards democracy away from their own teachings:
Saudi Arabia is a monarchy without elected representative institutions or political parties. It is ruled by King Fahd bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, a son of King Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, who unified the country in the early 20th century. A 1992 royal decree reserved for the King exclusive power to name the Crown Prince. Since the death of King Abd Al-Aziz, the King and Crown Prince have been chosen from among his sons. Crown Prince Abdullah has played an increasing role in governance since King Fahd suffered a stroke in 1995. **The Government has declared the Islamic holy book the Koran and the Sunna (tradition) of the Prophet Muhammad to be the country’s Constitution. The Government bases its legitimacy on governance according to the precepts of a rigorously conservative form of Islam. Neither the Government nor the society in general accepted the concept of separation of religion and state. The Government prohibited the establishment of political parties and suppressed opposition views. **In 1992 King Fahd appointed a Consultative Council, or Majlis Ash-Shura, and similar provincial assemblies. The Majlis, an increasingly influential appointed consultative body, began holding sessions in 1993 and was expanded first in 1997 and again in 2001. The judiciary, though subject to influence by government officials, was reportedly becoming slightly more independent.
So they are going to take a positive move. Nothing is a final word in this changing world so it is wrong to say that now they r going against their own principles. You should see it as if they are adapting themselves to the requirements of a changed world. However, they have realized it somewhat later.
well I would say that its a big move,,,
but as a resident of this country for more than 20 years.. I thik it will take a decade for it to show some progress..
The mentality and culture here is quite peculiar. Every other person thinks that he is a prince or crown prince or next to the king..
So bringing matters to general public would take a lot of time, because many princes will think that there poweres have ben taken back and they are getting less influential...
I hope thta this country comes to a stable position soon. It seems quite stable from outsie, but all the ppl living here know the current situations..
Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
By Isa Mubarak
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia was hosting a human rights conference on Tuesday, the first in the conservative kingdom which has faced international condemnation over its own rights record.
The Gulf state, the cradle of Islam, has come under harsh criticism from Western human rights groups for severe sharia law punishments, including public beheadings, and for discrimination against women. They also accuse Saudi Arabia of arbitrary detention without trial and torture.
But the more controversial issues were unlikely to be addressed at the Human Rights in Peace and War Conference in Riyadh, organised by the Saudi Red Crescent Society.
The conference was officially opened late on Monday, while the speeches and debating sessions began on Tuesday.
Organiser Saleh al-Tuwaijri told Reuters the forum would discuss issues such as human rights under Islam, implementation of international human rights laws and the rights of refugees.
“There is a misunderstanding between Islamic and Western societies and we believe the reason is a lack of intellectual contact. The more we can provide such contact, the wider the understanding for Islamic sharia in the West,” he said.
Is this for real or another elephant tooth? Yesterday I read a news saying that Saudi will be holding Elections very soon, though those elections will be for Municipal offices only… but that could be a beginning… a beginning of the end of KINGDOM?
“What else can I do to please you, my master?” asks Saudi Arabia.
Re: Elections and Saudi version of Islam
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
In light of the fact that Saudis are moving towards democracy does this mean that they recognise the fact that the version of Islam they have been preaching worldwide is now redundant?
Are they really moving towards democracy? Last I heard news was that they were going to hold election for “municipal offices” only, not for a parliament or any other law making institution but merely for someone to get an office, desk and a chair to get directions from governor of a city and then put his rubber stamp on the paper.
**Should members on these boards continue to support it when the guardians of the faith no longer do? **
I didn’t know we have people who approve “KINGdoms” here, 
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
...
**The Government has declared the Islamic holy book the Koran and the Sunna (tradition) of the Prophet Muhammad to be the country's Constitution. The Government bases its legitimacy on governance according to the precepts of a rigorously conservative form of Islam*.....
[/QUOTE]
Xtreme, the "fact" that Koran is declared as Constitution is for public ONLY, and even that is as ROYALS want to... meaning the Royal interpretation of laws. A family of foreigner killed by "Saudi" may hardly get money for his body to be flown to his/her native country, while a family of "Saudi" killed by foreigner gets a sum of some 100,000 Riyals.... I don't know what law in Quran tells them that. Its just a comedy.
elections in gulf states r just to shut the mouths of those who scream for democracy all the time....
the parliament will have on serious impact on the government....
it will be, just like bahrain, a democratic monarchy....
which, living in bahrain and experiencing it for around year, means that the king is the supreme ruler and answerable to no one....
and the parliament acts more like an advisory council....
P.S. this topic is far from religion as i see it....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
P.S. this topic is far from religion as i see it....
[/QUOTE]
From the link posted above:
The Government has declared the Islamic holy book the Koran and the Sunna (tradition) of the Prophet Muhammad to be the country's Constitution. The Government bases its legitimacy on governance according to the precepts of a rigorously conservative form of Islam. Neither the Government nor the society in general accepted the concept of separation of religion and state.
So I think that religion has plenty to do with it, and it's not about how YOU see it, it's about how Saudis see it, practice and propagate it.
Re: Elections and Saudi version of Islam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
In light of the fact that Saudis are moving towards democracy does this mean that they recognise the fact that the version of Islam they have been preaching worldwide is now redundant?
Should members on these boards continue to support it when the guardians of the faith no longer do?
[/QUOTE]
Xtreme
I dont think that there is a parallel between their approach to religion and their form of government.
Its actually a paradox, with their strict interepretation and enforcement of what they consider shariah law, theystill are not practising the method of governance recommended by the prophet, which is more representative in nature..i.e. democratic, and thus 180 degrees from the absolute monarchy that the sauds impose.
It does bring an interesting point to mind, why is the strict religious code enforcement on the public only. The Sauds have partnered with the wahabi leaders to run teh country, and as much as the sauds, and these wahabi leaders have forced their versionof religion down everyone's throat, it appears that the method of government is something they conveniently forgot about.
Re: Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
"What else can I do to please you, my master?" asks Saudi Arabia.
[/QUOTE]
Human rights and democracy? They are very fortunate to have such a benevolent master.
Re: Re: Elections and Saudi version of Islam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
It does bring an interesting point to mind, why is the strict religious code enforcement on the public only. The Sauds have partnered with the wahabi leaders to run teh country, and as much as the sauds, and these wahabi leaders have forced their versionof religion down everyone's throat, it appears that the method of government is something they conveniently forgot about.
[/QUOTE]
My point is not so much whether they practice the right type of islam, more concerned really as to the fact that the strict Taliban type interpretations which they promoted all over the world would not be in line with holding free elections including women.
Either way, seems to me they are moving away from Wahabbi islam, or maybe they didn't practice it in the first place except in surpressing where necessary. So Pakistan should let them worry about their own mess and clean up the madrassahs which are part of their legacy.
Re: Re: Re: Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
sheeeesh!! keep quiet or you'll be put in jail for using too much freedom of speed. however, that clown bishop is still free even after sayin that white house should be nuked. if it were a muslim , he would have been in Guantanamo Bay, labelled as a threat to national security.
Democracy and human rights are something every person in the world is entitled to. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst and should be encouraged to do better in this area. The world is coming around, and thanks in large part to the world's greatest proponent of human rights and democracy, more and more countries are falling under the umbrella of civilized nations that offer basic human rights and the right to self determintation. Muslim countries are the exception to this trend, but if SA is starting to come around there may be hope yet for the oppressed hundreds of millions!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Democracy and human rights are something every person in the world is entitled to. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst and should be encouraged to do better in this area. The world is coming around, and thanks in large part to the world's greatest proponent of human rights and democracy, more and more countries are falling under the umbrella of civilized nations that offer basic human rights and the right to self determintation. Muslim countries are the exception to this trend, but if SA is starting to come around there may be hope yet for the oppressed hundreds of millions!
[/QUOTE]
well monarchy in saudia is supported by whom? if they are voilating human rights then who is behind them for keeping them in power? if a revolution is to happen today and monarchy is ovcer thrown by commons then do you think saudi's supporters [foreign government] will let public have their say and way in all this? i'm sure they will forget every human rights violation, every humane law and rule and will try to bomb these people to stone age aswell. saudi's are in power simply bcos some governments want them to be there to have control of everything that they want. you can't have democracy until saudi's are in power. you don't want a puppet council. but nothing different / new is going to happen until saudis are in power with backings of foreign government. for them, human rights is nothing but waste of ink on a piece of paper. :)
What the Saudis preach i have no problem with. They way they have their govt i have a problem with. The Saudis have used their money to promote missionaries, establish mosques (which in pakistan are better in quality than the public schools) and establish mosques in the rest of the world.
Can they more? Absolutely. Have they made incorrect policy and management decisions? 100% True. But that in no way correlates to how they run their country.
The form of government is clearly unislamic. They govt is oppressive and rigid. However how does that correlate to what they do abroad. I personally see many good things coming from what the Saudis have done. But i also see things that should be condemned. Forcing women into Hijabs and Burqas is clearly against the females right to chose etc etc.
Also stating that this has to do with religion, well then every action by a muslim has to do with religion as that is an underlying factor in the way our lives are constructed.
Re: Re: Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Human rights and democracy? They are very fortunate to have such a benevolent master.
[/QUOTE]
Do you really expect them to leave their seats and give up millions in dollars of no-work-income and loose all the power? Its not gonna happen, I think (but not wish).
Re: Re: Re: Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Do you really expect them to leave their seats and give up millions in dollars of no-work-income and loose all the power? Its not gonna happen, I think (but not wish).
[/QUOTE]
USA either won't let that happen. wide spread democracy in saudia won't do them any good. prevailing of human rights will bring out a lot of secrets from people who are put into jails bcos of saudi's corruption, cleverly backed by its master USA. 911 is a clear example, where most hijackers [as put my the USA] were saudia but they went after afghanistan and iraq.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Saudi Arabia holds first human rights forum
on top of that when all flights were restricted, a plane (or planes) full of Saudi royals took them from US to KSA :k: