Ejazul Haq and GhulamMustafa Khar with P.J. Mir on ARY

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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did anyone watch the Q&A with PJ mir last week where the guests were EjazulHaq and Kharr. Kharr came up with new controversies regarding the end of bhutto. these things that he mentioned were never heard of for the past 30 yrs. even benazir never said anything like this and now kharr emerges al;l of a sudden as the prohpet of truth. he said that bhutto had actually died before being hanged as an army officer who had visited him in his cell kicked him hard in his stomach. he also added that before his burial his body was sprayed with chemicals to speed up the decaying process so that his body would disappear and that his family was not allowed to see his face before burial. now i can’t recall benazir or any other bhutto loyal ever saying these things. He said that gen Ziaulhaq ‘killed’ bhotto for personal enmity. all this while ejazulhaq sat by his side with extraordinary patience. Kharr went to the lenght of saying that Allah showed gen Zia a face of what he had done to Bhutto and so he died in a plane crash and his body diintegrated and when he was burried the coffin only had his denture and sand for body weight. Ejazulhaq sat by his side listened to this mad man say word after word of insult against his late martyred father. ARY should not have called them together, Ejaz ansewered all kharrs allegations against his father with great patience and he very effectively managed to criticize kharr and his blatant lies. PJ mir appeared a PPP loyal for some reason and the callers sounded insane saying thery believed in every word kharr said. i wonder what’s wrong with people.

what credibility does a man whose wife wrote a book against him (‘my feudal lord’ by tehmina durrani, kharr’s exwife) and whose own daughter (Amna Haq, the model) refuses to use his name, have!!??

2

Those accusations about his hanging are well known by almost any PPP wala :), theyve also been mentioned in more books than I can name ...., ..although Khar's comments were in bad taste about Zia, but that's Khar..he's back with BB so he's just trying to score points..

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I despise Kharr, Bhutto and everything that the PPP represents. These are the people who auctioned off my grandfather’s hard earned Textile mill because of some accrued wages. Rs.300,000 to be exact. My father and Uncle personally met Kharr to disuade him from doing it but he went ahead with it. Now what is 300,000 to a textile mill. I can only expect that he did similar kind of stuff with other people of Pakistan. Thats not all. My father and mother often tell me of the horror stories during Bhutto’s regime. I still admire Bhutto for his personal chrisma and his rhetorical speeches but his actions towards my family were appaling. So basically, I am all too glad Pakistan got rid of him. I saw the programe and Mr. Khar was contradicting himself. First he says that Bhutto told him" to get out of Pakistan because Zia wants to hang us both but since there’s too much international pressue on him to not hang me, he will definitely get you" So Mr. Khar went to Zia and told him that he had secret documents that he can give to Zia but they are overseas. Zia wanted a gurantee that he would return. So Khar begged Jataoi to guarantee to Mr.Zia that Khar would return. And he did. Khar never came back. Khar doesnt mention how and why Jataoi was spared but what kind of a selfish man is he? Anyway minutes later he jumps on the sofa and asks Ejaz hey..lets settle this, if your father didnt want revenge then why did he let me go abroad. and I was like :konfused: The guy is an idiot.

4

^ The moment ZAB was released (before being re arrested on the charge of murder) after Martial law was declared, huge crowds were going to see him..it was at that time and the famous first comment when he met Zia after the Martial Law declaration.."do you know the punishment for overthrowing the constitution" that sealed his fate.. was his Judicial murder personal?..yup sure was.... One grave two people...

And yes Khar is a very cruel man...

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
^ The moment ZAB was released (before being re arrested on the charge of murder) after Martial law was declared, huge crowds were going to see him..it was at that time and the famous first comment when he met Zia after the Martial Law declaration.."do you know the punishment for overthrowing the constitution" that sealed his fate.. was his Judicial murder personal?..yup sure was.... One grave two people...

And yes Khar is a very cruel man...
[/QUOTE]

Kharr, and this gen. from Zia's era mentioned on ARY that when Zia went to met Bhutto in Murree, he told him that he was under pressure from the army to overtake the govt. as several of his brigadiers had taken retirement and the army didn't like that. So Zia asked Bhutto to come back, sort things out with opposition and he would be glad to salute him as a leader but Bhutto at that time replied Mr. Zia i dont think you have read article six of the constitution. i hear after that Zia realised that its either him or me.

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I am not a fan of PPP or khar, but the way Ejaz -ul haq reacted was away from professional politician.

"yeh tou sari umer haram khata raha hey........"
that made khar boil.

there was no serious mature discussion happened. khar is just saying bhuto was greatest leader and still this country need him.
and ejaz ul haq supporting his dad without any reason, being a son he will not say anything againt him, and he is not a politician anyway.

any one watched yesterdays khar on Vectone URDU?

he admitted he is ASHIK mizaj, and hussan parast! thats why he married so many women. cause he didnt want to do gunnah!
that made me smile... reminded all College girls kidnapped from hostels for him when he was governor.

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^ Factually, Zia ul Haq did not over throw the government because of the Opposition government confrontation, he knew that the opposition had finally forced ZAB to call new elections. He launched his coup anyways..

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History is based on perception not on fact. Well mainly on perception. I personally am a big fan of Zia ul Haq. I consider Bhutto to have done more haram than good for the country. He helped dismember it and was proceeded to crown himself king in aspect except for in name.

Though i will give him this. He was truly a charismatic man, and damn intelligent. He had the qualities to be a good leader. He just ****ed up.

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My two cents:

Though Khar himself is a shame on humanity yet his rebuking of the dictator is due. "Martyr Zia" is an oxymoron. No other ruler has done more damage to Pakistan than Zia. He could do everything to legitimize his illegal power. Zia supported religious fanatics and subverted democracy in Pakistan. He fought America's proxy war against the foremer Soveit Union in Afghanistan. He left behind the Heroin and Gun culture and religios intolerance, the controversial Hudood Ordinance and Blasphemy laws are also his legacies.

He had even no respect for the constitution of Pakistan. At one occasion he showed how much contempt he had for the constituion, he said,

"It is a booklet with ten to twelve pages. I can tear them up. Is there anybody to stop me?. All politicians including the once mighty Bhutto will follow me with their tails wagging".

In other countries people are eligible to be tried for treason if they give such a provocative statement. But in my country they are revered. Shame on us!

Footnote: Article 6: (1) Any person who abrogates or attempts or conspires to abrogate, subverts or attempts or conspires to subvert the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *

He had even no respect for the constitution of Pakistan. At one occasion he showed how much contempt he had for the constituion, he said,

"It is a booklet with ten to twelve pages. I can tear them up. Is there anybody to stop me?. All politicians including the once mighty Bhutto will follow me with their tails wagging".

Footnote: Article 6: (1) Any person who abrogates or attempts or conspires to abrogate, subverts or attempts or conspires to subvert the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason.
[/QUOTE]

wasn't gen zia's statemet mentioned above proven 100% last year when the same players of the field who dominated the scene 20 yrs ago got back together and contested the elections under an ammended constitution? this time too it was done by a general, and the dogs did wag their tales! didnt they!?
the only problem is that we in pakistan take idealism bit too far. all those who had nothing against LFO until last NOV last year are ready to die to get rid of it. why did they take part in the elections!? simply because if they hadnt they wouldnt have won any seats or minsteries, which is all they care about. And as Sheikh rashid said in Capital Talk with Hamid Mir on Geo Tv yesterday; " ye saare log jo aaj LFO ko ro rahe hain ye sirf wo log hain jin ka koi teer nishane per nahi baith raha".
they were discussing javed hasmis arrest.

and regarding the article 6 and treason issue; what good is the hudood ordinance if the agrieved woman instead of getting justice gets stoned to death for adultery!? think about it. all these ppl who are literally crying like babies for the constitution etc have made it a cliche and hang on to it to hide their personal motives. how much did all these ppl defend or play by the constitution during their tenures!? they were given chances and they failed! they insulted the constitution, the country, its people and everythign more than nayone could ever do. thanks to their misdeeds. once again reasonable thinking is more imp than idealism.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shak killS: *
I am not a fan of PPP or khar, but the way Ejaz -ul haq reacted was away from professional politician.

"yeh tou sari umer haram khata raha hey........"
that made khar boil.

there was no serious mature discussion happened. khar is just saying bhuto was greatest leader and still this country need him.
and ejaz ul haq supporting his dad without any reason, being a son he will not say anything againt him, and he is not a politician anyway.

any one watched yesterdays khar on Vectone URDU?

he admitted he is ASHIK mizaj, and hussan parast! thats why he married so many women. cause he didnt want to do gunnah!
that made me smile... reminded all College girls kidnapped from hostels for him when he was governor.
[/QUOTE]

maybe you didnt watch the ejaz-kharr program from the begining. Khar is an illiterate fool. he was the one who said Ziaulhaq's grave has nothing but his denture and sand. everyone knows what happens to plane crash victims but saying it to the face of the deceased persons son was inhuman! secondly he was the one who told Ejaz 'tumhara baap motorcylce chlat tha tumahar dada maulvi tha" and then ejaz said waht you have mentioned. Zia became a general through his hardwork khar became rich at the expense of poor people's bllod and sweat. ejaz accepted his challenge of declaring his assets on tv, khar tried to change the topic and insulted him further. Ejazulhaq is a very patient man and i respect him greatly for that since i watched the prog.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *

wasn't gen zia's statemet mentioned above proven 100% last year when the same players of the field who dominated the scene 20 yrs ago got back together and contested the elections under an ammended constitution? this time too it was done by a general, and the dogs did wag their tales! didnt they!?

[/QUOTE]

Don't equivocate, you know exactly what I am talkig about.

And let me make one thing clear, I am not at all trying to defend the misdeeds of politicians. My only intention is to defend democracy against autocracy.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *

Zia became a general through his hardwork khar became rich at the expense of poor people's bllod and sweat.

[/QUOTE]

Zia's officer had reportedly noted in Zia's log book, "not fit to be an officer in the Pakistan army", alas no one took it seriously. Bhutto promoted him over 5 generals to become Chief of the Army Staff just because ZAB had considered him no threat for him. Why people don't learn from history?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *

Zia's officer had reportedly noted in Zia's log book, "not fit to be an officer in the Pakistan army", alas no one took it seriously. Bhutto promoted him over 5 generals to become Chief of the Army Staff just because ZAB had considered him no threat for him. Why people don't learn from history?
[/QUOTE]

there is a lengthy and thorough selection procedure for selecting officer cadets for pakistans three armed forces. it is an almost 3-4 month long process consisting of numerous tests of various kinds including, physical, medical, psychological, educational, emotional and mnay other tests. Those canididates who don't qualify are sent home at diff stages because they are 'not fit for the army'. those who are successful are finally selected by the ISSB which is a transparent board (i have heard of sons of generals not making it through) and are sent ot the military academy. all others who are disqalified at one stage or another arenot upto the required mark and are declared 'not fit for the army' after 2 attempts at the ISSB. So, it seems quite late for gen zia's senior offcer to note in his ACR that he was NFA, when Ziaulhaq was already a senior officer in the army. isn't it...? the doctors, psychiatrists, selection officers, teachers etc at the selection centres, ISSB, GHQ, CMH and later PMA didn't think so, or else they would have sent him home much before he became a general, rather much before he ever reached PMA! and the fcat that Gen Zia was commissioned in the armoured corps of the army is proof that he was a competent soldier because only those cadets who pass out at the top of their course (consisting of some 150 cadets) are commissioned into the elite corps of SSG, Cavalry(armoured) etc.
why is that the generals whom our politicians deem most unthreatening turn out to be the most brilliant and competent!?

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *

Don't equivocate, you know exactly what I am talkig about.

And let me make one thing clear, I am not at all trying to defend the misdeeds of politicians. My only intention is to defend democracy against autocracy.
[/QUOTE]

...yes, and i'm not trying to say that the army should rule a country or that is the best way. what i'm trying to say is that the army is atleast better than what the civil govts have given us. who wouldn't dance in the streets if TRUE democracy, human rights, law and order gets estaiblished in pakistan? thats the way it should be, but under the prevalent situations and keeping in view our history, democracy seems to be too idealistic because those in whose hands the great tool is to be placed have made it a joke. i say the politicians are corrupt, some say the army is too, ok, maybe the army is too, but not as much as the civilian rulers are. and all else aside, the army has atleast saved us from foreign threats and internal too, it has sacrificed lives so that we may live. what have these civil politicians who whine about democracy for nothing given us in almost 60 yrs? nothing! they were given opportunities over and over but they never cared. ecah time the army came the country was almost on the verge of economic, social collapse. so the army has been our saviour and the politicians our enemies! these same faces have been on the scene since the creation of Pak and they haven't done anything worth noting for pakistan except detroying it.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
there is a lengthy and thorough selection procedure for selecting officer cadets for pakistans three armed forces. it is an almost 3-4 month long process consisting of numerous tests of various kinds including, physical, medical, psychological, educational, emotional and mnay other tests. Those canididates who don't qualify are sent home at diff stages because they are 'not fit for the army'. those who are successful are finally selected by the ISSB which is a transparent board (i have heard of sons of generals not making it through) and are sent ot the military academy. all others who are disqalified at one stage or another arenot upto the required mark and are declared 'not fit for the army' after 2 attempts at the ISSB. So, it seems quite late for gen zia's senior offcer to note in his ACR that he was NFA, when Ziaulhaq was already a senior officer in the army. isn't it...? the doctors, psychiatrists, selection officers, teachers etc at the selection centres, ISSB, GHQ, CMH and later PMA didn't think so, or else they would have sent him home much before he became a general, rather much before he ever reached PMA! and the fcat that Gen Zia was commissioned in the armoured corps of the army is proof that he was a competent soldier because only those cadets who pass out at the top of their course (consisting of some 150 cadets) are commissioned into the elite corps of SSG, Cavalry(armoured) etc.
why is that the generals whom our politicians deem most unthreatening turn out to be the most brilliant and competent!?
[/QUOTE]

Either you have a very bad habit of evading the issue or you misread my post. There is a big difference between "not fit for the army" and " He is not fit to be an officer in the Pakistan Army". Nevertheless, here is an excerpt from Mazari's book "A journey to disillusionment".

General Zia had been pushed by his senior generals, in all prbability led by Chishti, into ousting Bhutto. He was a man about whom one of his superior officers, Brigadier (later Major-General) Nawazish Ali Khan, had once written in a confidential report.: "He is not fit to be an officer in the Pakistan Army". Having attained the highest of military offices through acts of blatant toadyism, which were openly admitted to even by his serving collegaues such as Genrals Chishti and Arif, Zia was treated scornfully by Bhutto.

Roedad Khan writes in his book "A journey goes sour" that 'if he(Zia) had his way, he would have taken Pakistan back to the Middle Ages. He had no idea of law or constitution or the requirements of a modern government'. He was all set to become an 'Amir'.

Roedad also mentions Zia's eagerness to speak to Indira Gandhi on telephone and seek her advice. Roedad also reprimands Zia's handling of Afghan crisis and his exploitation of the same to get favours from the west is also mentioned. Roedad is very critical of Pakistan's traditional Afghan policy by 'playing into Indian hands by treating the Afghans as our enemies and their leaders as Indian or Soviet stooges'.

No matter how much you praise this thug or distort the history to exonerate him from blunders, he will remian a traitor. There is no escape from reality.

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^ for those whose ill ways were 'sabotaged' by gen Zia, he was a cruel man, not fit enough to be an officer in the army and if they could but somehow say it, perhaps not fit enough to be born at all! One man's nightmare is another man's dream. it's all about priorities and interests. The people (politicians) whose livelihoods through snatching money from the public by betraying them etc was snatched away by gen Zia because he cared about Pakistan and not his own wealth like them, are the ones who call him all sorts of things and are his bitterest of enemies.
They hate him because he didnt let them serve their selves at the cost of the country. I dont blame them for hating him the way they do.
And about his not being fit to be an officer in the army, one couldn't possibly reach the rank of general without sheer competency. the general who wrote the comment in Zias ACR must have something personal against him. For one negative ACR he must have had countless positive ones otherwise he would never have got to sit in a 'star' car.

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^ Go and pay "Fateha" at his tomb and ask the almighty to absolve him of all his sins. He does need it desperately.

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we weren't talking about their 'sins'. we were talking about what they (bhutto and Ziaulhaq) did for Pakistan. Whyre you getting personal and touchy...