Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
can you tell me the reason why you feel pain on something happen wrong in baluchistan? the reason is piece of land. JI is better on ethical front as they have no lust for piece of land.
yes they have pain for foreign lands (only) not their own.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Probably because they now realize they don't have enough fire power now :D
lame attempt to dodge the point. In Islam piece of land carries no value. But it takes 'something' to understand this point, maybe you dont have that.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
yes they have pain for foreign lands (only) not their own.
you talked about JI, so I am asking about yourself.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
you talked about JI, so I am asking about yourself.
I just stated a fact. JI is more interested in international cases be it Egypt or Bangladesh as compared to the issues close at hand. I am not important, it should be JI standing with people of Balochistan.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
I just stated a fact. JI is more interested in international cases be it Egypt or Bangladesh as compared to the issues close at hand. I am not important, it should be JI standing with people of Balochistan.
So you mean JI is unconcerned for people of Baluchistan?
Actually this is what you people choose to and like to believe, not a fact.
On church attack in Peshawar almost all the first available ambulances were of Alkhidmat Foundation, a JI's organization. But you people have not learnt to give credit if it is to be given to some Islami jamat.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
lame attempt to dodge the point. In Islam piece of land carries no value. But it takes 'something' to understand this point, maybe you dont have that.
May be I don't have that point, may be only JI understands it, but we are not living in 1800s anymore where we can have what JI or Tanzeem-e-Islami want.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Why do Arabs even bother with democracy'? Their country wouldn't be fit for such system even 100 years from now.
Are you feeling ok?
We have just had democracy live and direct in Egypt and its a pile of garbage did you not see the result the islamic flavoured party won they implemented 0 islamic laws and still the secularists couldn't take it and tear up the rules and start massacre of the the people!
Democracy is like HIV nobody in muslim world wants it!
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Democracy is like HIV nobody in muslim world wants it!
Then why does the population in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia repeatedly vote for parties that aim to continue to democratic system?
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Then why does the population in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia repeatedly vote for parties that aim to continue to democratic system?
I would like to know the answer to that question?
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Then why does the population in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia repeatedly vote for parties that aim to continue to democratic system?
hallucination :D
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Then why does the population in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia repeatedly vote for parties that aim to continue to democratic system?
well, not sure about other counteries but about Pakistan that pakistanis dont vote for saving democracy. maybe they dont know what they vote for but they will share sweets if Army takes over, even today.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
How can a democracy not be secular? There isn't such as a thing as an Islamic democracy is there?
For it to be a democracy it has to be secular. Religious people are not big believers in democracy. And lets not forget that OBL was inspired by founder of MBs (read his book) & Ayman al Zawahiri was a active member of MB before being jailed and exiled after killing of Anwar Sadat.
There is no way a "secular" democracy will be acceptable to masses, until the "terrorism within" wears out the masses.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
There is no way a "secular" democracy will be acceptable to masses, until the "terrorism within" wears out the masses.
Well the Pakistani people have repeatedly accepted democracy. I see you quoted secular, but how can a democracy be
Islamic? Many say Islam is opposed to democracy.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Well the Pakistani people have repeatedly accepted democracy. I see you quoted secular, but how can a democracy be Islamic? Many say Islam is opposed to democracy.
Many obviously disagree.
In the end, democracy is not a religion, it's a political modality. Of late, many columnists in the West, discontent with the rise of elected Islamists, have made a point to distinguish liberal democracy from the rest.
So, if democracy is used as a short for liberal democracy, then I do agree...such a political scheme is not compatible with an Isalmic polity, as it is secular by nature.
But I think technically, the only "kinds" of democracy are direct and representative. Ideologies serve the role of framing the democratic discourse, and dictating what is allowable/"productive"/"progressive" and not.
So, modern Islamists are not neccessarily anti-democratic.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
But I think technically, the only "kinds" of democracy are direct and representative. Ideologies serve the role of framing the democratic discourse, and dictating what is allowable/"productive"/"progressive" and not.
So, modern Islamists are not neccessarily anti-democratic.
Between those 2 statement you're contradicting yourself. According to Islamists democracy is a western concept that is incompatible with Islamic religious beliefs. So, how does that makes Islamists pro-democracy?
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Would Islamist parties want a country as close to Sharia as possible? In which case they are not democratic because, as is the case in Pakistan, a non-Muslim could never become the leader of the state. Religious minorities would not have equal representation and say in the laws of the land, thus, Islamic parties cannot be considered democratic, or at least not wholly democratic. By basing your party on a religion you are indirectly stating a preference for the rights of certain citizens over others.
And before anyone says it, no, a Muslim is not likely to get elected as the President of the US, but that's because the people wouldn't vote for one, not because the laws prevent someone from even trying.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Between those 2 statement you're contradicting yourself. According to Islamists democracy is a western concept that is incompatible with Islamic religious beliefs. So, how does that makes Islamists pro-democracy?
He clarified in the beginning probably by this:
Many obviously disagree.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Between those 2 statement you're contradicting yourself. According to Islamists democracy is a western concept that is incompatible with Islamic religious beliefs. So, how does that makes Islamists pro-democracy?
If we want to presume that all Islamists are the same, and have the same ideological outlook, then you are correct. They don't, so you're not.
I'm simply pointing out that the various Islamisms and western liberalism are ideologies, and that is somewhat orthogonal to one's inclination towards democracy. To wit: egyptian secularists who claim to hold liberal values generally accept the military intervention, even though it is entirely undemocratic. They are also okay with a carpet ban on all islamists...again, ideology trumping commitment to democracy.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
Would Islamist parties want a country as close to Sharia as possible? In which case they are not democratic because, as is the case in Pakistan, a non-Muslim could never become the leader of the state.
No one would argue that America since it's inception was a democracy...even though slaves could not vote and I do believe women were barred from being President. That is a very extreme example that i think contradicts your sentiments on what is and is not a democracy. I don't think I have to dive into Greek history to find more extreme examples....
Again, I think you're conflating liberal democracies with democracy itself. Perhaps the point is academic...but the I do believe democracy has it's own benefits independent of ideology. Islamists too can reap those benefits if they can get their act together.
Back on topic, it seems the brotherhood were different than the Takfiri kind of Islamists. They're toleration of protests, as vile and bellicose as the protests were, does heavily lend weight to their commitment to a democratic system, if not the ideals that make such a system work.
Re: Egypt Bans Muslim Brotherhood
That democracies were flawed in the 18th century or 300 BC are hardly perfect counterpoints to what I said, considering that their contemporaries were nation states with kinds and tyrants.
I believe the point you are trying to make is that secularism and democracy are mutually exclusive, and I am inclined to agree with you, except the definition of democracy includes fair and equal representation for all citizens. Any religion would put its own believers ahead of others, and as such, cannot be considered **wholly **democratic. If it were so, why was there such opposition to the constitution pushed through by the Brotherhood? Do you believe that they protected the rights of all minorities?
Here is a litmus test: could a country run by Islamic parties protect an atheists right to publicly say that there is no God? Could such a country ever envision a Christian or a Jew as the head of state?
Lastly, adherence to the appearance of democracy without respecting the ideals is akin to paying lip service. It is not sincere nor can it ever be long lasting, as we have seen. They allowed protests because the army was never under their grasp.