well we should now all agree on some things:
Initial reports can NEVER be relied on. The skeptics are absolutely right in casting doubts at these breaking news.
The 'inspectors' who did the initial tests don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to deadly Chemical Agents.
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Third possibility. The general and/or soldier with his hands on the trigger simply disobeyed the order.
[/quote]
Well that must have rattled Saddam. This is the reason why dictators usually keep red buttons under thier own thumbs.
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Fourth possibility. It was not Saddam's restraint that kept the WMDs from being used but rather the disruption of the communication channels kept the order from getting to the triggerman.
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Normally armies issue a set of orders before hand that deal with the possibility of comm lines being broken in such cases ranges are laid out ie if the enemy crosses such and such a line use this weapon etc. However I don't know how normal the Iraqi army is exactly (The tank column without air support incident) so it remains a possibility.
If you really want to have some fun while talking about discoveries of Iraq's bio/chem weapons.. what ever happened to the FBI's laptops?? Remember those laptops that had confidential information on them that poof just went missing? Where are they?
Now.. my question is, if the American bureaucracy is so lousy, if they lose material worth millions every year.. how the hell can we expect Iraq's bureaucracy to be any better??
How can we declare these foul items to be evidence of a larger conspiracy dreamed up by Saddam to conquer the Arab world through chemistry?? Do these things justify our invasion of a nation?
Seems to me all the silliness about Iraq not having any wmd's....Iraq fighting to their death (half true) and VietnamII for the US is quickly being set aside in favor of sheepish comments, as the one above. What these people forget is that Americans are smarter than they are, not to mention stronger. ;)
Spoon,
The Baathist have extraordinarily good recordkeeping. During the Anfal campaigns and the genocide of the Kurds, very meticulous records were kept. After the first Gulf war ended, the Kurds seized the records of this ethnic cleansing, and recovered 18 TONS of documents from the Intelligence services. Not only were the records perfect in every regard, every prisoner and victim was photographed and the photograph neatly placed in a file. Not satisfied with that, the victims were tickled so that they were smiling in the pictures. They were then promptly taken away to be murdered or thrown in Nazi style prison camps.
The records are now in the Joint possession of Middle East Rights Watch, and the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Does that sound like a bunch of guys who would just LOSE a couple thousand gallons of nerve gas? Not likely.
Don’t believe me? Here is a description of the mortuary that was recenly found in Basra. Sounds VERY organized.
“Indeed, the orderliness of the warehouses, as well as the stacks of file folders with information on the names, ranks and nationalities of the victims, Walters said, suggested that the buildings were a processing center both for returning victims from that now distant war to relatives in Iraq and for repatriating the remains of Iranian soldiers. Walters estimated that 85 percent of the remains are Iraqi.”
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*Originally posted by Thap: *
Well put AvIntmiddle-agedWoman,
That justifies bombing the crap out of 1000's and laying a country to waste. Famine and cholera alone will most probably kill more Iraqi's than any chemical/bological weapons could have.
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Thap?
When did you ever hear me say that the method I prefer to disarm Saddam Hussein is 1000's of deaths and wasting a country?
Do I advocate or want innocent people to die? NO, NEVER.
Thing I want is for this war to be over yesterday and God willing it will be over soon and the Iraqi people live a safer, secure and happier life.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *....the Iraqi people live a safer, secure and happier life.
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This war is almost over, should we start to search for next nation to be liberated? Or the list is ready already?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
This war is almost over, should we start to search for next nation to be liberated? Or the list is ready already?
[/QUOTE]
I don't think there is a list??
If so... clue me in?
Sorry to disappointed those who are jumping the gun. They would have to “plant” such agents, maybe after the war is all done and over with 
Now back to “lets provide security for ourselves and liberate the iraqi ppl”
Enjoy:
**“Smoking gun” WMD site in Iraq turns out to contain pesticide](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More) **
NEAR NAJAF, Iraq (AFP) - A facility near Baghdad that a US officer had said might finally be “smoking gun” evidence of Iraqi chemical weapons production turned out to contain pesticide, not sarin gas as feared.
A military intelligence officer for the US 101st Airborne Division’s aviation brigade, Captain Adam Mastrianni, told AFP that comprehensive tests determined the presence of the pesticide compounds.
Initial tests had reportedly detected traces of sarin – a powerful toxin that quickly affects the nervous system – after US soldiers guarding the facility near Hindiyah, 100 kilometres (60 miles) south of Baghdad, fell ill.
Mastrianni said: “They thought it was a nerve agent. That’s what it tested. But it is pesticide.”
He said a “theatre-level chemical testing team” made up of biologists and chemists had finally disproved the preliminary field tests results and established that pesticide was the substance involved.
Mastrianni added that sick soldiers, who had become nauseous, dizzy and developed skin blotches, had all recovered.
The turnaround was an embarrassment for the US forces in the region, which had been quick to say that they thought they had finally found the proof they have been actively looking for that Iraq (news - web sites) was hiding weapons of mass destruction.
A spokesman for the US army’s 3rd Infantry Division, Major Ross Coffman, had told journalists at Baghdad’s airport that the site “could be a smoking gun”.
“We are talking about finding a site of possible weapons of mass destruction,” he added.
The fact that the coalition forces have come up with no clear evidence of WMD after capturing much of Iraq in 19 days of fighting has raised questions over the war’s justification.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rhia: *
Sorry AvgAmericanGirl twisted as it sounds to you but I do mean it. The bottom line is Saddam is known for crushing his opponents by whatever means possible and is not averse to using chemical weapons when he feels threatened. This is a war in which the opposition has openly declared its intention to topple him and his regime. Saddam knows his days are few and must be feeling desperate. Its simple commonsense that a desperate man will do and use whatever he can to ensure his own survival. Now the fact is IF he did have WMD’s he is the type of man who would not hesitate to use them. The fact he hasn’t shows one of two things that either he has a capacity for enormous restraint (which we know can never be true) or secondly and more pertinently he never had the capability of wmd’s and their use in the first place. And this second point the coalition forces will never acknowledge because all of their justification for initially going to war rest on this single and very very shaky premise. So, the forces will do the next best thing; fake it. Lets hope that’s more believable.
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Or the number 1 reason Saddam didn't use them?
Because he didn't want to go down in history as a liar.
5abi,
19 days? Give me a break. Saddam has had 5 years to hide em…since 1998. 12 if you count after Gulf War I.
How about a scavenger hunt?
5Abi,
I know you are too EXCITED, but Please next time ATLEAST scan through the thread, if you are planning to put a New Article.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
5abi,
19 days? Give me a break. Saddam has had 5 years to hide em...since 1998. 12 if you count after Gulf War I.
How about a scavenger hunt?
[/QUOTE]
well then where was USA 5/12 years ago? :-)
don't tell me they were planning for 911 to hit back at saddam and other muslim countries :-)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *
well then where was USA 5/12 years ago? :-)
don't tell me they were planning for 911 to hit back at saddam and other muslim countries :-)
[/QUOTE]
Whatever you say, must be so.
If you believe evil deeds were intended, I cannot ever change your mind.
If you are able to be positive....
There is no stopping that.
:-)
and i do read american perspectives aswell, its just that they sound and look so fake and made-up that its difficult not to laugh at them :-)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *
:-)
and i do read american perspectives aswell, its just that they sound and look so fake and made-up that its difficult not to laugh at them :-)
[/QUOTE]
Laugh if you must. It's good for the soul. Maybe would be a good idea to make up!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
5abi,
19 days? Give me a break. Saddam has had 5 years to hide em...since 1998. 12 if you count after Gulf War I.
How about a scavenger hunt?
[/QUOTE]
You are forgetting something. Human beings tend to have very short memory. Before US invasion of Iraq, US had been claiming that it knows the whereabouts of those WMDs and it didn't tell UN because of nature of 'secrecy' etc etc, and the certainty US showed that it'll get those WMDs as soon as it landed in Iraq. but almost 3 weeks now. only chemical "suits" have been found and some pesticide. I hope its not a la Sudan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
You are forgetting something. Human beings tend to have very short memory. Before US invasion of Iraq, US had been claiming that it knows the whereabouts of those WMDs and it didn't tell UN because of nature of 'secrecy' etc etc, and the certainty US showed that it'll get those WMDs as soon as it landed in Iraq. but almost 3 weeks now. only chemical "suits" have been found and some pesticide. I hope its not a la Sudan.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe Changez_like,
But that slippery Saddam has also been known to hide and move things around. Intelligence is only good for so long...
And you forget there is a war on. Not alot of time to go scouring the countryside.
I think eventually they will be found. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong and I will admit it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
....Intelligence is only good for so long...
....
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Are you suggesting that the intelligence is dead? Why is it not working now?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Maybe Changez_like,
But that slippery Saddam has also been known to hide and move things around. Intelligence is only good for so long...
**
don't tell me you have read all this in american fantasy papers? :-)
**
And you forget there is a war on. Not alot of time to go scouring the countryside.
**
oh yes, war. lets finish the supporters of saddam and other civilians who will resist us then we'll comb through the country
**
I think eventually they will be found. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong and I will admit it.
**
so? what will happen if you'll admit it? people who have lost their lives and loved ones, they won't come back. what is done is done.
**
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