Do you believe in Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

Assalam alaikum

someone else,

You've made a couple of mistakes:

  1. Muslims discovered America centuries before columbus. I'm not just saying this, I was given proofs to justify this claim.

Visit www.islamworld.net and look under 'Islamic History'

2.You forget that there was a flood which killed everyone except the inhabitants of the Ark. Since there was an Ark at that time, and whether or not boats existed before that is not clear, but, after the floods the people came off the Ark and could have quite possibly made boats or ships to travel to other lands since they had the knowledge of building boats or ships. So the aboriginals and the reds must have descendants of the Inhabitants of the Ark.

It is also said that the people of the Ark began to speak in different languages.

  1. The ayahs that you were referring to are particularly about Humans and not anything else. It clearly states in the Qur'aan that all creation came from water:

25:54 It is He Who has created man from water...

21:30 ....We made from water every living thing....

24:45 And Allah Has created every animal from water...

What is clear in the Qur'aan is that all living things were created from water but Man was created from clay and of course clay contains water. What evolutionists are saying is that creation progressed from animals to Humans but what the Qur'aan is telling us is that animals and humans were created separately using the same substance.

The common ancestor that they are looking for may just be water.

kh.

O mudassar bhai, tu to meraa bhai ladai hee daal raha hai, yaar, aadmi koi haal chaal poochta hai, kay bhai yeh aik naya banda aaya hai is ko pehlay nahee dekha, koi chai paani poocho :), tum to aatay hee seedha , "u have made a couple of mistakes" o mere bhai, discussions chaltee rehain gee.. i just wanted to say that although we have different points of view but that doesnt mean i have anything against you in my heart. i really respect you, u introduced to me, a real new way of thinking about this thing, and it was very nice of you to correct me where u thought i was wrong :)

well u say muslims discovered america centuries before columbus. all the history after Muhammad, peace be upon him , has been recorded. nowhere in the recorded history does it say that muslims discovered america. and if they did, all the europians coming to the arab universities, why didnt they get to know about it, and why is the world stil unaware of it? why is it that the religion of red-indians, and the aboriginals are in no way similar to islam? why dont they cover there body? why do they live like wild animals?why the muslims didnt guide the aboroginals and the red-indians to the right path?

so u say the people on the ark went to america and australia right?? well i CAN NOT believe NOWHERE IN THE KORAN DOES ALLAH SAY ANYTHING TO PROVE THIS POINT OF YOURS.

i used caps becoz i thought these things are important, it DID NOT mean i was yelling at you or something.

and now about clay and water.. so u say the common ancesstor may be water.. u said that okay! there u go! thats what the modern theory of evolution says :)so in the end u did believe it yourself :)

the first living cell was made from water, and (clinging or sticky) clay.. about 70% water, and about 30% (not being exact) organic molecules (sticky clay). the first forms of life lived in water, and the amphibians and some reptiles show the advancement of life from water to land.

IF U SAY THAT ALL OTHER ANIMALS ARE MADE FROM WATER AND JUST THE HUMAN BEINGS FROM CLAY, ANSWER ONE QUESTION, ARE HUMAN BEINGS NOT ANIMALS? THE WORD USED IN KORAAN REFERS TO "LIVING THINGS" WHICH INCLUDE HUMAN BEINGS AS WELL AS ANIMALS.

AND ANOTHER QUESTION, WHERE DID THE "NEANTHERDALS" COME FROM?? THEY WERE A SPECIES JUST LIKE HUMANS, THEY CANT POSSIBLY BE SONS OF PEOPLE ON THE ARK, CUZ THEY ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES. DONT THEY MAKE U BELIEVE IN EVOULTION?

and dont forget that you still have to answer a question. a question i asked in my very first post, and i am simply cutting and pasting my quesion again
u said:
"Darwin's theory clearly states that man evolved from apes "
where duz it state that? are u sure u have read darwin's book? if yes then why didnt u relate to it? u shouldve clearly stated where darwin said those words.

and mudassar bhai, referring to your message posted 08-19-98 04:11 PM CT (US) , when we say the change is for te better, we do not use darwins theory, it is a fact that change IS for the better.. but i'm not saying that becoz of any personal experience, or parental education, in the koran Allah say,
"..and the last shall be better for thee, than the first"
verse 4, chapter 93, the forenoon 

Assalam alaikum

someone else,

You've got me all wrong as Muslims we are prohibited to hate a fellow Muslim for having a different point of view, we are all seeking knowledge and without questions we cannot understand. Islam is a religion which allows differing points of views on everything except the Kalimah in which we all believe and in which there is no differing point of view. It is said that no one knows the truth except Allah (S.W.T.) and whose understanding is close to the truth will get a reward but the one who follows the truth, meaning their understanding is spot on, will get double the reward. Everybody understands up to their own intellectual limitation and that is why everybody has different points of views. That is why I was questioning the origin of Humans as it is related by the theories of Evolution and not accepting them like a robot i.e. devoid of understanding and the ability to think for itself.

You've actually showed me that I don't understand Darwin's theory of evolution. I have found out that there are many theories of evolution like you were relating the "modern" theory of evolution and not "Darwin's" and the theory of evolution I understood was:

All life originated from the primordial soup which was on Earth and from which life started and the process went from fish-animals- the original Human, Hadhrat Adam (A.S.). As muslims we believe that Hadhrat Adam (A.S.) was created in Jannah, ( his body was shaped and then life was breathed in him by Allah (S.W.T.)) and not on Earth and the fact that he was created from clay. How he was created from clay we cannot know and anything we say about it can only in the end be conjecture.

Referring to the point that the body was shaped and then life was breathed into it: Although there is a difference of opinion between the scholars the general opinion is that life is breathed into the foetus after 40 days of pregnancy.

I don't have a problem with the fact that a species changes or evolves to adapt with the environment but I do have a problem with the understanding that a species changes to form a new species, a different variation of the same species yes but a new species, no. Is a Human with six fingers a new species? Are deaf or blind people a different species?

Did you read the article on evolution I originally referred to ? It says that the Neanderthals were fakes. Also you are assuming that you know what the people of the Ark looked like.

The Islam that Hadhrat Nuh (A.S.) taught is completely different to the Islam that the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) taught except for the fact that there is only one God and a certain type of behaviour is demanded of us which is pleasing to our Creator and which is why we are created. The Qur'aan is written in a style which is known as ellipsis. It demands thought. You cannot read the Qur'aan without stopping and thinking about what you have read. From what I read and from my limited understanding I came to the conclusion that since after the flood the only people that survived were the people of the Ark , so, I concluded that the reds and aboriginals must have been the descendants of the people of the Ark. I don't know about the religion of the aboriginals but the religion of the red indians is Shamanism. It teaches Peace with nature and Spirituality although of course it is not the truth. Did you read the article I referred to concerning the red indians.

The world is not ignorant of the fact that Muslims discovered America, Malcolm X mentioned it and no real historian challenged him.

Why weren't they guided to the right path? that's like asking why isn't anyone guided to the right path. It says in the Qur'aan:

42:13 ...Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases and guides to Himself those who turn (to him).

39:23 ...Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases but such as Allah leaves to stray can have none to guide.

35:8 ...For Allah leaves to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills...

You mentioned another ayah which you say means that change is for the better. I think it refers to the fact that the last, meaning paradise, is better than the first, meaning this world. According to the translation of the Qur'aan that I have it says:

93:4 And verily the hereafter will be better for thee than the present.

Which translation of the Qur'aan are you reading? I have been told only to trust Yusuf Ali's and Pickthall's. If you're reading George Sale's then you're in beeeeg trouble.

Also you must understand that both of us are discussing evolution using translations made by scholars who interpreted the Qur'aan to their own understanding i.e. I read the Translation of the Meaning of the Qur'aan according to Yusuf Ali.

kh.

[This message has been edited by Mudassar (edited 08-27-98).]

As far as the translation of koran is concerned, nobody can translate it perfect, and thats why allah tells us to read koran in arabic. thats why most translations are called transversations, or interpretations, coz in english, like all other languages there are many ways of saying the same thing. your translation meant the same as mine, i have another translation too, "Your future is better than your past". soo lets not get into another discussion :)

there are a lot of theories of evolution, out of which, darwins theory is "believed to be" the most valid. and the modern theory of evolution is the darwins theory, after removing known defects.

How were neantherdals fake?? did darwin make them to support his hypothesis?? talk with proof.

and i dont agree that Noah taught a religion completely different than islam. again it is a seperate discussion, but all i wanted to say was, the basic are the same, that there's no god but Allah, we must be good, worship allah, wear clothes and be kind.
ur right when u quoted koran about ppl being guided or misguided, . OKAY, IF ALLAH DID NOT CHOOSE TO GUIDE THEM, ATLEAST IF THEY WERE SONS OF MUSLIMS, THEN IT MEANS ALLAH DID GUIDE THEM!!!!! IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE THAT MUSLIMS NOT ONLY STARTED PRAYING STONES, SUN AND TREES, AND STUFF LIKE THAT, NOT ONLY BUT ALSO FORGOT THE MODERN LIVING WAYS. WHY DID THE OF MUSLIMS START LIVING NUDE?? PEOPLE OF NOAH WERE SO ADVANCED THEY COULD BUILD A REAL GOOD SHIP. WHY DID THEY START LIVING WITHOUT CLOTHES, STOPPED WORSHIPPING ALLAH, STARTED LIVING IN CAVES, WITHOUT CLOTHES, ATE RAW MEAT, AND FORGET ALL MODERN WAYS OF LIVING?

no a deaf person is not a new species, niether is a person with six fingers a new species. do u understand what species is and how are species seperated?

anyways, why do human beings so closely resemble all the other animals in their biochemical composition?
and another thing:
human beings have an appendix which serves no apparent function.. on the contrary, in other animals, such as a rabbit, the appendix is actively involved in digestion. do u think this is a pure coincidence? or does it point to a common origin?
human beings have ear muscles, though we cant move our ears. in many animals such as horses and dogs, these muscles are active, and those animals can move their ears. is this a pure co incidence? or does it point to a common origin?
why are we so simillar to other mammals in our habbits, body plan, reproduction system?? is it a mere coincidence?? or does it point to a common origin??
hair on human body has no funtion! in polar bears, it helps keep the animal warm, in a hedgehog, it protects the animal. why is there the hair on human body? it makes us similar to other animals. is it merely coincidence? or does it point to a common origin?
nictitating membrane in eyes is another example, it is of no use in humans, but it is present, just becoz its there in the other animals as well. is it a coincident? or does it point to a common ancesstor?

AND WHY DO THE ABORIGINALS OF AUSTRALIA SO CLOSELY RESEMBLE APES? I THINK THEY CLEARLY SHOW THE TRANSITIONAL STAGES OF HUMAN EVOLUTION. THEIR LOOKS ARE NOT AS DEVELOPED AS THOSE OF RED INDIANS, SO EVEN IF U DO MAKE ME BELIEVE RED INDIANS ARE SONS OF PEOPLE OF MAINLAND, IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE TO SAY ABORIGINALS WERE SONS OF MAINLAND PEOPLE. WHY DO THEY SO CLOSELY RESEBLE APES IN THEIR LOOKS?? IS IT MERELY A COINCIDENCE? OR DOES IT POINT TO A COMMON ORIGIN?

Assalam alaikum

someone else,

I don’t think you’ve read any of the articles I pointed to have you because that is where most of the proof lies. I’m very disappointed

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

You haven’t told me whose translation of the Qur’aan you are using.

could you explain what you mean by “after removing known defects”?

When I mentioned the religion of Hadhrat Nuh (A.S.) I didn’t say it was a completely different religion. I said it was Islam but in a different manifestation, they had different obligations. I mean they didn’t pray 5 times a day and there was no Qur’aan at that time.

Do you think a person who is born Muslim is guided or the one who fulfils the obligations of being a muslim is guided? Even the Saudi govt is not Islamic!

Hadrat Musa (A.S.) who didn’t come directly after but came many prophets and milleniums after Hadhrat Nuh (A.S.) told the children of Israel not to worship the calf yet when he went away for a while and came back he saw that they had shaped a calf out of the gold that they possessed and were worshipping it!

You use the term “modern ways of living” what do you mean by it?
Also again I said before, you are assuming that you know the lifestyle of the people of the Ark. For example you asked why did they stop worshipping Allah. Do you know how they worshipped Allah? I mean namaaz came with the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.)

Concerning species, tell me what a species is and how they are separated.

Also I don’t argue with the fact that the animals and Humans have a common origin. I understand the common origin to be water, they were created using the same material but they didn’t split up from a creation.

Animal and Human similarities only point to the fact that there is only one creator. Just like you can recognise an artist’s paintings because they have been painted in a certain style.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.543
Narrated by Abu Huraira

The Prophet (S.A.W.)said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, “Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutation) of your offspring.” So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, “As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi” (i.e. Peace and Allah’s Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam’s salutation the expression, ‘Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi.’ Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam’s creation.

15:28 Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from sounding clay from mud molded into shape;

15:29 “When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him.”

There isn’t anywhere in the Qur’aan which says that Hadhrat Adam (A.S.), the original Human, developed or evolved from animals. Wherever you will read in the Qur’aan it will always say that Hadhrat Adam (A.S.)'s body was shaped and then life was breathed into it by Allah (S.W.T.)

You mentioned a few parts of the body which are said to be of no use now. Our lifestyle has completely changed so of course these parts of the body are no longer required. The human chin is also said to be reducing because of us eating so much refined food now. Anyway you’re wrong about hair, it still has a function. When you are cold your hair stands on its ends so that the cold air doesn’t touch your skin. Hair on the chin (beard) acts as a filter to the air that you breathe in.

If aboriginals were in a transitional stage, are they still in it? and what about the chinese what stage are they in? and which animal did they evolve from. You also used the term “I think” which clearly shows you had no proof for your statement on aboriginals.

kh.

Assalam alaikum

If there are stil any doubters to the fact that Muslims do not believe we evolved from animals then I have a few more proofs for you:

32:7 He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay

32:8 And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised:

32:9 But He fashioned him in due proportion and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

The ayah clearly states that Man was created from nothing more than clay. I don't think I have to say anything more to prove my point.

kh.

Hi Mudassar,

OMG!! i cant believe that sumfyn which happned in 1998 was going to help me write my essay!! thankyou so much mudassar!... whoever you are. u sound very smart indeed (mashallah). anyways..i think the last time you wrote sumfyn on this website was on september 2nd 1998...what a long time since sumbody else writes sumfyn else. .... LOL..anywaiis im very keen to know sum more of your concepts on evolution so if could just send them to me on my hotmail: [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected]
thanks again....
by the way i am on your side!!! evolutions stupid. hahaha
cya !! :)