As a Pakistani, I’m sure we’ve all had similar experiences as to how we’re recieved and percieved abroad. I’ve had someone laughing in my face when I told them I was originally from Pakistan, not forgetting that ‘oh so special’ feeling at particular airports with special lines for ‘Pakistani Passports’!!
So, could you guys consider the following questions?
Have you ever had an experience where you’ve been discriminated against for being Pakistani/Asian?
2)Why do Pakistanis have such a terrible reputation all over the world, how has it been created?
3)What can we do to change people’s perceptions?
Why do Indians look all ‘la-di-da’ and are a lot more respected than ‘Pakis’ aka ‘Pan-spitting-pakis’ and so on! You catch my drift.
I wish it wasn’t this way, but the media always portrays us so badly, an example would be the cricket team and their antics. They’re actually quite famous over here because of what they did a couple of years ago, went into some clubs and started fighting with the bouncers and got kicked out.
So, peoples, please put my mind to rest and tell me why oh why???
I know…
look at the Pakistani guy who acted on Seinfelf. uff, i did not like way the script writers made him represent (wasn’t Seinfeld 1 of the scriptwriters? or maybe he was the producer?). But i’m pretty sure when it comes down to it, the Seinfeld audience must’ve just taken it as a joke…right..?
Anyways, with respect to the harsh discrimination bit, hm, worst one which gets on my nerves are prank phone calls. I have caller ID right; but, it doesn’t identify everyone who calls. Anyways, let’s just say, those retards who called us up were very…amriki jahil fools. They were acting like such retards (cursing at me, a ‘Paki’) that it wasn’t even worth stooping down to their level in speaking back or reacting to them harshly. Know what i mean?
With the stupid, immature way they were acting, it’s pretty hard to imagine at times that there would be such ‘illeterates’ in the West, in particularly in Canada.
i feel because of the gov rep tht we look soooooo bad. otherwise ur right our rep isnt good. being at purdue most of the amreeks thought pak is a part of ind. its up to ur generation to set things straight. it will take ALOT of work but im giving it a shot by promoting an aspect (our cuisine) in usa. im also setting up a cutural frat. being the 'ambassador from hell'(i forgot who wqrote tht) im at least trying!
[quote]
Originally posted by cat-woman:
**As a Pakistani, I'm sure we've all had similar experiences as to how we're recieved and percieved abroad. I've had someone laughing in my face when I told them I was originally from Pakistan, not forgetting that 'oh so special' feeling at particular airports with special lines for 'Pakistani Passports'!!
So, could you guys consider the following questions?
1) Have you ever had an experience where you've been discriminated against for being Pakistani/Asian?
2)Why do Pakistanis have such a terrible reputation all over the world, how has it been created?
3)What can we do to change people's perceptions?
4) Why do Indians look all 'la-di-da' and are a lot more respected than 'Pakis' aka 'Pan-spitting-pakis' and so on! You catch my drift.
I wish it wasn't this way, but the media always portrays us so badly, an example would be the cricket team and their antics. They're actually quite famous over here because of what they did a couple of years ago, went into some clubs and started fighting with the bouncers and got kicked out.
So, peoples, please put my mind to rest and tell me why oh why????
I think discrimination exists and media in the west portrays a less than desired image of south asians in general. The negative stereotyping is pervasive and I had brought that up in discussions about american tv shows, and movies. We need to make a concentrated effort to change that or we will continue to be depicted as socially inept convenience store clerks or cabbies with bad accents and worse sartorial style.
The media is very happy to show desis in such roles but look at any hospital related show and you will think that there are no asians in the healthcare field, same goes for technology.
On the other hand desis use the discrmination crutch too much. In US and in UK. I have yet to see a well spoken, well educated desi doing badly. Sure there are glass ceilings, but they exist for everyone, even whites.
Cap that off with the excessive hooliganism of the members of the lower rungs in the desi social ladder and you get the current situation.
Personally, many desis who whimper about prejudism dont realize that they are not getting opportunities because of their race, but because of their personality. I would rather not have anything to do with a good chunk of desis in any country. Just because we hail from the same land does not mean I have to associate with them, I would not have associated with them back at home Pakistan and just the fact that circumstances have landed us in the same foriegn land does not make it imperative for me to associate with them nor do i feel any obligation to do so.
So there is prejudism, there is negative portrayal and there needs to be a very vocal and concentrated effort to that effect.
My article discussing this situation will be out in 2 weeks as well hopefully that will start a discussion that will be soon taken to other media.
I agree with you guys. It's true Mr. Frauds that the well accomplished people don't get enough recognition and as much attention as the 'hooligans' as you put it! The focus definitely needs to be redirected, but how does one influence the media?
Don't you think that in order to uplift our image we do need to associate with all kinds of people especially since we're overseas and living in such a transparent society? I know one doesn't easily associate with all kinds of people, but if you don't want the whole community to have a bad reputation, we have to work together.
I wouldnt mind making a contribution to your project by the way!
How does one affect media? by using media against media. If I could get a hand on any stats of desis as a percentage of the total cabbie population in US as well as doctors, consultants, accountants etc. and numbers of media references to all of them, it would be easy to show that bias exists.
First step is for us to realize that this is a real problem, so we have a determination to address it. secondly it could be a media campaign, whether it is letters to the editor or a protest or a rally to draw attention or letters to production companies.
right the media doesnt give at all!!! but there a few desis in the tech field. they arent highly respected ppl but r trying (my buds). u ppl may say 'so wht'. but in time im hoping all desis will achieve whtever it is they want. unfortunately its just to earn a decent living. which isnt bad!! but do it in such a way tht it represents us(desis)as reputable ppl.
i just thought of one desi in the media field -- riz khan and an indian. think about tht.
[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
**How does one affect media? by using media against media. If I could get a hand on any stats of desis as a percentage of the total cabbie population in US as well as doctors, consultants, accountants etc. and numbers of media references to all of them, it would be easy to show that bias exists.
First step is for us to realize that this is a real problem, so we have a determination to address it. secondly it could be a media campaign, whether it is letters to the editor or a protest or a rally to draw attention or letters to production companies.
**
[/quote]
singing hell to the scenes....
[This message has been edited by usmansalim (edited September 06, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by usmansalim (edited September 06, 2000).]
i just thought of something though. u do relaize south asians in a way r in many fields(including orientals. we amy not be as recognized but because of us (desis and orientals) usa's economy is improving!!! half the ppl in hospitality arent even sure if the want to go into this field(amreeks). the drop out rate in purdue is almost 50%. howzaat!
singing hell to the scenes....
[This message has been edited by usmansalim (edited September 06, 2000).]
There are many desis in entertainment and media and it is growing. More so in Uk than in US. This was discussed in a previous thread.
However, in mainstream media we dont get attention in the right way. Political correctness and the pressure of the largest minority in US has ensured that there is an over represetation of blacks as professionals but not desis. We are to blame for that as well since we have not hounded the media as the blacks have. As much as I despise the guy..maybe we need a desi version of Al Sharpton.
With positive depiction of arabs as in 13th warrior and perfect murder, there is some effort on the part of movie industry to show arabs in positive roles or positive roles depicting arabs and muslims. But there needs to be more. Ask an average run of the mill yank about desis and he will say convenience store clerk, but not high tech consultant or doctor or business owner.
That sort of tainted vision affects how many people view us. They are talkign about effect of violence in media on kids, what about effects of bombardment of negative images. They had to change it even for cartoons where blacks were shown in a very bad manner, but tons of cartoons after that and many recent still show the bad guy as a bearded dark haired desi/arab looking guy. The power of association is very strong... especially at young impressionable minds.
So is this a problem. Yes..are we doing anything about it. Not much from what I know and what I see.
u know its easy to voice an opinion, and im not just directing this to u fraud -- its for eveyone. wake up and smell the coffee!! we dont try hard enough or dont give....even I(usmansalim) have to blame. listen to me. im hoping this restaurant scheme works...i do pray.
[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
**Rizwan
There are many desis in entertainment and media and it is growing. More so in Uk than in US. This was discussed in a previous thread.
However, in mainstream media we dont get attention in the right way. Political correctness and the pressure of the largest minority in US has ensured that there is an over represetation of blacks as professionals but not desis. We are to blame for that as well since we have not hounded the media as the blacks have. As much as I despise the guy..maybe we need a desi version of Al Sharpton.
With positive depiction of arabs as in 13th warrior and perfect murder, there is some effort on the part of movie industry to show arabs in positive roles or positive roles depicting arabs and muslims. But there needs to be more. Ask an average run of the mill yank about desis and he will say convenience store clerk, but not high tech consultant or doctor or business owner.
That sort of tainted vision affects how many people view us. They are talkign about effect of violence in media on kids, what about effects of bombardment of negative images. They had to change it even for cartoons where blacks were shown in a very bad manner, but tons of cartoons after that and many recent still show the bad guy as a bearded dark haired desi/arab looking guy. The power of association is very strong... especially at young impressionable minds.
So is this a problem. Yes..are we doing anything about it. Not much from what I know and what I see.**
[/quote]
Okay here is the deal. I do feel that there is enough of a need to as a group write a protest/concern statement and start passing it to people we know and asking them to forward the concern with their comments to production companies, newspapers, magazines etc etc.
We have tons of members and many visitors that read and dont post. I would just ask them to copy the statment of concern and pass it to people thay know as well. Maybe we can utilize the help of NY Ahmedi and Rubiya Nur in writing the statement since both of them are good writers and their familiarity with the system as well as Rubiya's legal prowess will ensure that its a concise btu strong statement.
What do you guys think would be the best way to do it? I have never done anything of this sort so am looking for direction.
This may not be much...but it is something.
(btw sorry for addressing you as rizwan..confused you with soeone else)
In US and in UK. I have yet to see a well spoken, well educated desi doing badly
I think that's right. People with ability and personality tend to do ok for themselves, exception being in some services like police and the army.
There is discrimination though; I heard a joke a while back that went like this:
What do you call a Paki that doesn't own a corner shop? Ans: Doctor.
I think the sad thing about that is that a profession like medicine is demeaned b/c desis are associated with it.
To be honest, the people I feel really sorry for are actors. The asian actors in UK tv/films play pretty much stereotype roles 95% of the time.
Cat woman,
As for being a 'distraught' soul, I can only advise you stop worrying about other people's opinion about things out of your control. You don't have to answer for bad impression caused by other Pakistanis.
Your questions:
1) Have you ever had an experience where you've been discriminated against for being Pakistani/Asian?
Yes. These situations can be good fun sometimes.
2)Why do Pakistanis have such a terrible reputation all over the world, how has it been created?
Let me think about that one..
3)What can we do to change people's perceptions?
I'm tempted to say, who give a **** about their perceptions, but I guess that's not too constructive :). So in line with my new responsibilty as a moderator I'll suggest: give an alternative view. All cultures have plus points as well as minuses.
4) Why do Indians look all 'la-di-da' and are a lot more respected than 'Pakis' aka 'Pan-spitting-pakis' and so on! You catch my drift.
Mr.Frauds, you've given me lots of food for thought. It is possible to grab attention of the media in some way or the other, as long as we're willing to work together. This web-site is also an excellent way to attract the attention of Pakistanis around the world, I think a mission statement is a great idea. But, how do you go around distributing it, via the taxi drivers? :)
Thanks Mr.Xtreme for being the first to answer my questions individually, and I expect a reply to the ones you left out!
Yes, I know, I shouldn't care about what people think but I can't help being concerned.
I still think that Pakistanis have a hard time not treating others as equals. It goes back to British colonialism where the desi officials turned around and started treating their own people the same way or even worse than the goras had done to them. The legacy will still continue, it hasn't been that long since independence.
*This web-site is also an excellent way to attract the attention of Pakistanis around the world *
Goals of this site include attempts to enhance communication, provide a medium for exchange and collaboration and education.
I think a mission statement is a great idea. But, how do you go around distributing it, via the taxi drivers? :)
haha no, email, letters to editors and productin houses, purchsed ads in newspapers.
as long as we have a way to bring attention to this..why not.
I have said this before, we are racist ourselves and it shows up in our negative stereotypes about other people, be it along religion lines, or race or country.
TALK, TALK, TALK... BUK BUK BUK... Mr. Fraudia aur Cat-Woman, meray paas iss baat ka koi hall toh nahin lekin agar aap log kuchh "KARNE" ka faisla karen toh mujhe bhi bataa diye ga please. Kyon ke sirf baatein kare se kuchh nahin ho ga...
I have caller ID right; but, it doesn’t identify everyone who calls. Anyways, let’s just say, those retards who called us up were very…amriki jahil fools. They were acting like such retards (cursing at me, a ‘Paki’) that it wasn’t even worth stooping down to their level in speaking back or reacting to them harshly. Know what i mean?