Difference between muta and misyar

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*Originally posted by ravage: *
i havent yet had a single answer to the question of why mutaa is considered immoral while enjoying slave girls (potentially against their will) not? all arguments, lineage, adultery, promiscuity that are used against mutaa apply there as well, in my opinion to a greater degree, since slavery does not have the kind of protection laws mutaa does, in my knowledge.
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we know the prophet (saw) had slave girls with whom he did 'enjoy'....

did he ever do mutah????

when we opened up an internet cafe here in bahrain, the arabic text we used in the promo was “come on in and have istamta’tum”…
ofcourse we only meant ppl shud come and enjoy…
good thing u ppl weren;t there or u wud have thought we were opening up a brothel cuz for u ppl the word has just one meaning… :rolleyes:

Everybody. Thanks for your comments. I know what is mutah, i didnt knew what was misyar. and i still dont. So let the arabs enjoy this misyar.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

misyar is a marriage type (ofcourse thats how its defined but as i said, its just plain adultery in Islam) where the man seeks a temporary wife when he is travelling and away from his permanent wife....

so, like if i live in bahrain and i have to go to usa for some job, and i leave my wife behind, i temporarily marry a girl in usa, who i dont have to support financially but can do anything with her, and leave her at any time i like, i'd be doing 'misyar'....

now according to any sane logic, tell me if this is to be called adultery or not????

the purpose of marriage in Islam is to get together a household and to make a shelter place for women, not to have women as 'sex toys' to use and dispose off at free will....
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mobashrica did u miss this post by me????

jahalat ki inteha hai..1400 saal pehlay jo silsila shuru hua tha woh abhi tuk qayam rakha wa hai :slight_smile:

go read the ayat again..Allah is not talking about internet cafe in the ayat

Inuit said it right..when you ppl can’t come up with any answer you start ‘aayen baayen shaayen’ lol

the verse speaks of marriage, the one legal type of marriage that is known to muslims…
and it says that give the mehr to women if u ahve enjoyed with them…

where does mutaa come in here???

u cant just prove ur points by typing lol and :hehe: and :slight_smile: and :smiley:
its just shows how weak ur points r that u just have to find the words in the Quran and not see what they refer to and be happy that u have found ur reasons…

dont ignore the rest of my post..or maybe u should burn all of your history books because you dont want to learn from them..here is again for the thick mind:

In the above verse, the Arabic equivalent of the word "marriage" or any of its derivatives has NOT been used. Rather the derivative of word "Mut'a" (pleasure/temporary marriage) has been used, i.e., "Istamta'tum". The word Istamta'a is the tenth verbal form of the root m-t-a. As we will show shortly, the word Istamta'a has also been widely used in the authentic Sunni collections for Temporary Marriage. Of course, Mut'a is one type of marriage, but some of it's regulations are different than the permanent marriage, including the fact that the couple can extend this contract by mutual agreement as the end of verse specifies.

Moreover, if we look at the Sunni commentaries of Quran, many Sunni scholars such as Fakhr al-Razi confirm that the above verse (4:24) was revealed about the Temporary Marriage (Mut'a). They straightforwardly mentioned that temporary marriage became Halaal (permitted) DUE TO the above verse, but they assert that it was later prohibited. It is astonishing that many Sunni commentators mentioned under the above verse that:

Ali (RA) said: The Mut'a is a mercy from Allah to his servants. If it were not for Umar forbidding it, no one would commit (the sin) of fornication except the wretched (Shaqi; an utmost wrong-doer)."

Also many Sunni commentary books mentioned similar to the tradition of Sahih al-Bukhari (see part II) with more details and put it under the verse 4:24 of Quran:

Imran Ibn Husain narrated: "The verse of Mut'a (4:24) was revealed in Allah's Book, and there did NOT came any other verse after that to abrogate it; and the Prophet ORDERED US to do it, so we did it at the time of Allah's Apostle, and he did not forbade us from it till he died. But a man (who regarded it illegal) expressed what his own mind suggested."
Sunni reference:

Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Tha'labi, under commentary of verse 4:24 of Quran
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v3, pp 200,202, under the verse 4:24
Tafsir Ibn Hayyan, v3, p218, under commentary of verse 4:24 of Quran
Tafsir Nisaboori, by al-Nisaboori (8th century)
So it is clear that 'Imran Ibn Husain is talking about Mut'a of women here, otherwise the above Sunni commentators would not put it under this verse, or else such scholars are just stupid (may Allah protect us from such words). The positioning of such traditions is another proof for the fact that the verse 4:24 is about Mut'a of women.

shall i prove you a maachis mr. internet cafe ;)

al-Suddy (RA) said: "The verse 'So for those of whom you have had pleasure with them by the contract to an appointed time' is about Mut'a, that is, a man marries a woman with a provision (i.e., dowry) for a fixed period of time and makes two witnesses, and (if virgin,) he asks the permission of her guardian, and when the time period is expired, they should separate and they will not inherit each other."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, under the commentary of verse 4:24, v8, p176, Tradition #9033

ab yeh chinese main to hai nahi jo samajh na aaye

u know i was thinking that i m doing all this hard work but the ziddi folks of the gupshup still wont realize the truth..so whats the point..but then i thought atleast my knowledge is increasing and it will also benefit the fellow shias who come and visit the forum

kisi nay sahi kaha hai harkat main barkat :biggthumb

Sheraz, here is a brief reply. I shall be back insha'Allah if I see something positive from your end. First of all, restrain from name-calling and I shall do the same.

The first point to state is: Sunnis do not hold everything listed in a Sunni author's book to be authentic or to be the "Word of God". We believe that Sunni authors can make mistakes. Hence simply stating "Sunni references" does not prove anything. Instead of this I would prefer if you could post the isnaad (line of transmission) from the books, so the isnad can be investigated to see if it actually does originate from the mentioned person.

Now as for my response to some of the questions you raised in your post:

You say that the verse refers to Mutah since the word istama'tum is used. We know that the words of the Quran must be seen in connection with others, instead of being viewed independently. So we read on and we come across:

Point #1:

4:25 - And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to WED [yankiha] free believing women ..

Hence we understand that the preceeding verse is also talking about nikah and not mutah.

The mentioned verse further goes on to talk about Mahr etc, and who to marry etc, hence further establishing the context.

Point #2:

The various forms of the root word (m-t-a) have been used in various parts of the Quran without referring to mutah. I shall look this up in detail if you want, although I feel that you are well aware that the word does not necessarily mean 'sexual relations with a female' :-P

Point #3:

"...And those who abstain from sexual intercourse except with their wives (azwajihim) or those whom their right hands possess. [23:5]"

In this manner, we understand that the original verse does not refer to mut'ah since the above mentioned verse mentions that apart from our wives, or whom our right hands posses, then everything else is unlawful.

Do the females one is conducting mutah with (err.. i dont know the right term for what that might be..) do they fall under wives or those whom our right hands posses?

The other thing that you talk about, is that Umar (ra) made it illegal. This can not be taken as true since many of the Prophet (saww)'s companions were alive at the time, and would definitely have changed the practice back if such had been the case. Infact if Umar (ra) had changed something which the Prohpet (saww) had commanded with, then I do believe that the Caliphs after Umar (ra) such as Uthman (ra) or Ali (ra) would have made it legal again. I dont believe there are any references to show this.

Ammar, obviously you won't see anything positive in my posts because they go against the teaching your mullahs taught you

anyways i just want to mention a few points here but i will be back and write more later

Fakhr al-Razi is a famous sunni scholer and you should read his commentry of Quran, specially 4-24. (stop coming up with excuses that these scholers made mistakes now)

i was at a majlis last night and when Imam Sajjad (a.s.) got out of yazeeds prison and went to Karbala, he was greeted there by Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (RA), true companion of Prophet (pbuh&up) who according to Sahih Muslim said: "Istamta'a means contracting temporary marriage" (Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, chapter DXLI titled: Temporary Marriage, Tradition #3246. Please see part II for the full Arabic text of the tradition).

another point is that it was umar who forbade it and you believe the authors could have made mistakes..well just to let u know we have our own history books too and i can give u alot of ahadith by our Imams (a.s.)..they are no ordinary Imams but they are the offspring of Imam Ali (a.s.)

now read this hadith from sahih bukhari:
Volume 8, Book 76, Number 584:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you."

this shows u that some companions will not join Prophet (pbuh&up) because they innovated things in religion..who is famous for innovating things in islam? yup you got it..it is the 2nd khalifa

anyways i will be back later to add some more info

:salam:

Is this what all Shias believe about Hazrat Umar:razi:,

Maybe you should have read some other hadiths in these books

If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar bin Khattab. (Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi)

:salam:

its because of fake hadith like this, you guys insist that it wasn’t umar who forbade mutah..even though many of ur scholers have already said it was umar who forbade it..you keep insisting that mutah is adultry..please think before u say stuff like that..it wasnt the shias who invented mutah but its in Quran and was practiced during the time of Prophet (pbuh&up)..it was Prophet (pbuh&up) who ALLOWED it..and i believe if it was something bad Prophet (pbuh&up) would not have allowed it in the first place

ok i wanna rest now

Seriously though why do u feel the need to curse the companions, this is against the rules of the forum.

And this topic of mutah was discussed recently http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144278

First lesson for you: You ought to reply with :wsalam: instead of :salam: in reply to :salam:

:jazak:

sorry
i didnt know there was a smilie for walikum as salaam ..plz forgive me for the mistake i have commited above

Brother M :wsalam:

i am not cursing any sahaba..i am just not very happy with some of the stuff they did against the family of Prophet (pbuh&up)

How long will you guys repeat the same arguments again and again for and against Muta. Misyar was something I was not aware of, so the thread was initially interesting. Unfortunately, from that point on, the thread became repetitious, with all sides losing the basic rule of religious discussion... politeness and no disrespect.

Guys, seriously.. if you can't discuss in a mature manner... why bother?

Anyway... this thread is being closed. If any of you actually plan to discuss something new about mutah... please choose your words carefully.

Jazak Allah.