Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
You are so-very-right…i agree !! 
Words, you have quite a way with words. 
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
As for my definition of Patriotism. I dont quite have one at the moment. All i know for now is, that i sure as hell am Patriotic. =D
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
i like ur guys comments... very interesting..
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
The obligation that one feels for doing something (regardless of how little it may be) for the good of ones country is Patriotism.
Note: Cheering for Pakistan during cricket games is not really classified under that in my books.
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
My patriotism is high, when I am away from India.
When I return for a visit - my patriotism evapurates soon and reality takes over.
Anyone else in the same boat as me.
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
When I return for a visit - my patriotism evapurates soon and reality takes over.
Anyone else in the same boat as me.
Malhotra, ditto for me... Sometimes that happens the very moment in land in Pakistan, the people do their thing, and the patriotism dies with them, only to reemerge when i go back.
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
hey all i hope i am not too late!! and people are still readint this post, sepcially our key players, dushi, lahore and words!
i think patriotism is a virtue of the vicious!!!
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
some of you arguments are so incoherent...but i will dissect those in a bit..involves quoting and cut and pasting.
i would highly recommend this book called "roots of evil" by ervin staub!
He writes about what is at the root of gencoide and mass murder in our societies. its an amazing book b/c it looks at all of us as one basic being...all of us capable of the atrocities that some of us have committed.
Patriotism means.... Love of and devotion to one's country, it means nationalism, it does not mean deotion to faith! that would be fanatacism...no just kidding!!
Patriotism to me is an unwarranted pat on the back. its someone saying to themselves or even to each other "shah bash"..good job..congrats...etc...its a pat on the back, a stroke to our ego's for what...? because we were born in a particular place. Patriotism screams....we are better, we are special ..because we belong to a certain nation.
Its not an accomplishment to have been born into a nation!!
okay maybe this might help. forget this debate/ discussion!
clear your mind and think:
imagine someone comes up to you and says america is the best country in the world. they go on to list all the reason why its such an amazing country - they point o the fact that people are always immigrating here as an indication of how amazing this country is. and the fact that they have such a high education rate, low mortality rate, good health services, etc.... whatever ( i m not saying i would say these things) but this patriotic american would! lets say they do come and say these things...now..how do u feel...do u agree with them? do u smile and think..oh you patriotic fella..i am patriotic too ..but about pakistan so...we are both the same? or do u dislike him like i would!?!
if u dislike this guy but approve of your own patritism...then you are two-faced, and have double standards...one for yourself and one for everyone else!
i dont have doubel standards - i dont like patriotism in general
it makes ppl do asinine things - liek support wars that make no sense, it makes counries flawless, when we all know they are so flawed, it makes us turn a blind eye to the inadequcies of our own countries.
they say democracy is not a spectator sport, you have to partake in a democracy and you cant do that when due to your patritism you are idolizing your government! government should be criticized.
its unfortunate in pakistan people are not able to do that because of the millitarization of the state!!1 thats one flaw among so many i am sure you failed to see!! a criticism of the pakistani gov't is not a criticism of yo.much like criticism of the amreican gov't is not a criticism of american ppl.
as for pakistan being a muslim nation - well i hoep we dont intervine islamic state with pakistan, b/c i dont think pakistan with all its incredible falws is a good reflection of a muslim state. the rate illitracy, the per capita of the poor, etc, mllitary dictator (who i think is a puppet) for president i dont think reflects an islamic state!
Oh and by the way Israel is the only other state besides pakistan that was made b/c of religion as well.... i hope you can appreciate thier patriotism as much as you respect your own!
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
I assumed you were talking about Pakistan when you were saying the follwoing:
"corruption, economic-disparity within the country
injustice
double standards,
as a nation, as a country, low morale, no preparation to be self-sufficient
no national character
all kinds of bribery
& individual as well as social apathy
so, that is where we are at."
and i was agreeing with you that this is very true of pakistan! but then i kep reading and i was a bit confused!
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
Farwah Raza
Your expalination is at a very basic level however, I stay firm on my stand denying any relation of my point of view to fanaticism in any way. Patriotism and its very definition as you describe is not my way. It has incomplete roots of inspiration and source of derivation according to my understanding. It very well fits in the commonly accepted definition of patriotism however, as a Muslim, I cannot condome this kind of patriotism when what makes us one nation is Islam, our faith. Then how can we define patriotism on the basis of nationalism based on everything other than the faith? How can we bear allegiance to any for m of Nationalism other than based on our faith.
I am extreemly disappointed at words who just picked on my reply and mutilated it to the extent to make it clearly disfigured for anyone to pay head to. I quoted Pakistan as an example and he like a fanatic embarked on disproving my reply and its relation to Pakistan.
Re: define your concept of Patriotism?
your response is incredibly incoherent, hopefully my reply will not be! 
when i said ‘fanatacism’ i meant that in jest. It was meant to mock those people who think anyone religious is “fanatic”. i am religious, and am offended when people in a broad stroke paint all religious people to be fanatic. thats why i was mocking it by implying that if you are devoted to your faith you are fanatic - hahaha - its a joke! however i can understand it being confusing you dont know me well enough to know if i was joking or not.
that said - what i meant basically was that if you are devoted to your faith then you are religious not “patriotic” - if you look up the dictionary definition of the word “patriotic” you will see that it means “devotion to country” or nationalism!!
Islam and pakistan are mutually exclusive! please dont say they are one and the same and that supporting pakistan means supporting islam or that supporting islam necessitates supporting pakistan!!
Ironically that is the same twisted logic that people who support Israel use! if u criticize israel suddenly you are anti-sematic and hate all jews!!! which is not true b/c israel - regardless of what many lobyists may say - is a country not a religion!!
pakistan similarly is a country not a religion! i submit to All-h not a country! or its political leaders!! it is because i care about my religion and muslims at large that i feel the need to criticize Pakistan. Pakistan does not, (certainly not in my opinion), incorporate in its governance the rules of Islam! it may have been founded on the basis of religion, it certainly does not incorporate religion in its politics. Pakistani politics are quite dirty…the landlord system must change, the millitary dictators have mostly been puppets catering to the US millitary industry taking on immense loans in the name of our country to buy ancient weapons! when that moey should be spent on education! building a nuclear weapon, which i personally think is quite useless! i understand the need for it in light of our situation with india, but we are not any more safer wiht a bomb then we would be without one, atleast that what i think…however i will concede i know little about this matter, and have this feeling i maybe wrong.
in any event, thats my 2 cents. your logic is twisted…that b/c u are devoted to islam you are patriotic about pakistan…it makes no sense!
