Anyway, since you claimed the Qur’an has NOTHING to attest it, I gave you some bones to chew on, but unfortunately you seem to lack your senses and now claim that the Prophet (pbuh) “stole” what was conveyed by the Earlier Prophets (pbut)
Can we blame you? Yes! we should! since any rational human being would have wondered why would a scripture kept by someone who opposes the other scripture, have mentioned the name of this particular final prophet (pbuh)and asked its practitioners to await the coming of such a prophet?
Now, I even went one step further to tell you that this Prophet (pbuh) was named in the hindu scriptures!!! …apparently your blindness, led you to pass it by or shall we say it was/has more to do with your boundary markers?
Now instead of leaping like a frog from one angle to another, try and walk your talk and settle one issue at a time……which was the Qur’an is Not attested by what it alone says BUT The Qur’an can be attested by what all original scriptures conveys. since these (scriptures) being kept by varying religionist ( meaning.. no room for fabrication) only goes to establish the Qur’an’s authority and authenticity …don’t you think so?
Devoted to truth
Ibrahim
Don’t worry about your failure. Worry about the chances you miss when you don’t even try.
Ibrahim, sorry to prick your bubble, but the cut-and-paste you did contains so many errors, misquotes, disinformation and misunderstanding of the issues at hand that nobody in his right mind will give 1 pence for the book
Yes ! You are right in saying that it was a cut and paste, for I just received that in my in-box the very same time I was reading infoman’s reply. To me that was a quick reply to infoman’s assertions. Basically that was an advertisement for that book ( haven’t seen it or read it, so cannot comment much on it) But saying someone’s Book is not worth one pence is rather silly.
On the other hand, By the Grace of Allah you will Not be able to discount what I have discussed and written in part with many Christians concerning such matters.
Isaiah 46: 9. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
** Who is “That Man from the East”?
Who is “That Prophet” ?
What is his name ?
What happened to him? **
We can begin with a few prophesies of the Old and New Testaments.
According to the book called Deuteronomy, chapter 33, verse 2, Moses prophesied some events:
“And he said. The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from Mount Paran, and he came with ten thousand saints. From his right hand went a fiery Law for them.”
The prophesy states several things and they seem clear in meaning. It is accepted that The Lord spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai. The Lord would then manifest Himself at Seir, which is very much near Jerusalem. It is clear that this speaks about the coming of Eesa (Jesus). Then The Lord would manifest Himself ‘at Mount Paran’ and come with ‘ten thousand saints’.
Bible scholars say that Paran is the area around Mecca and Medina in Arabia. What was this shining forth of The Lord at Mount Paran, which is Arabia? Muhammad (SAW) was born in Mecca and migrated to Medina. The first revelation came to Muhammad (SAW) when he was inside a mountain cave. No one else can this elude to. Also, when Muhammad (SAW) came victoriously into Mecca after being driven out by the rulers, he came in with exactly ten thousand of his closest companions or ‘saints’.
Not Convinced? Here is another Prophesy
There is another prophesy about one from Paran in Habakkuk 3:3-7:
“God came from Teman, and the Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens and the Earth was full of his praise. And his brightness was as bright as the light. He had horns coming out of his hands; and there was the hiding of his power. Before him went pestilence and burning coals went forth at his feet. He stood and measured the Earth. He beheld and drove asunder the nations; the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: His ways were everlasting.”
Who else from Mount Paran drove the nations asunder in all history as Muhammad (SAW) did? The Romans who tried to put Jesus (peace be upon him) on the cross surrendered to the companions of Muhammad (peace be upon him). The prophesy says that his ways would be everlasting’. Muslims are commanded to stick as close to the ways of Muhammad (SAW) as possible, as the Quran (the Revelation) and the Sunnah (Prophet Muhammad’s way of doing things) form the essential sources of guidance for Muslims.
Not convinced? Here is another PROPHESY.
In Isaiah 9: 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Note how he is named “ wonderful counselor” which would translate to Mohammed in the Arabic and Hebrew language.
note how the “Government will rest on his shoulder” and indeed the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) ruled Arabia with a fiery law and his companions conquered the Romans who wanted to crucify the Christ.
Not convinced? Here is another PROPHESY.
In Isaiah 28 he is again mentioned
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Indeed this Prophet spoke with stammering lips for he was illiterate and in an Arabic language ( another tongue) and he taught the Qur’an which took 23 years to complete and it was reveal line after line , here little they a little, which contained precept after precept for all of mankind..
Not convinced? Here is another PROPHESY.
Even Jesus attested to these events after himself, according to Matthew 21:43-46:
“Therefore I say unto you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth fruits thereof. And whosoever falls on this stone shall be broken, but on whomsoever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
Who was the one from Paran whom all of this speaks about? Muhammad (SAW) was the direct descendent Of Ishmael, the son of Abraham. It was said by God about Ishmael according to Genesis 17:20 that Ishmael was blessed and would be made a great nation: “I have blessed him…and will make him a great nation.”
Which other descendent of Ishmael, from Paran can these things speak of? Yet there are more mentions of ‘The Prophet’.
Still not convinced?
According to Deuteronomy 18:18-19, God was speaking to Moses about the Israelites:
“I will raise them up a prophet among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall not hearken unto the words that he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Who are the brethren of the Israelites? The brethren of the Israelites are the Ishmaelites, since Ishmael was the brother of Israel. Muhammad (SAW) was the direct descendent of Ishmael. This prophet was to be like unto Moses.
The Qur’an says:
“We have raised a prophet amongst you like unto the prophet (Moses) we sent to Pharaoh,” [Qur’an 73:16].
In fact, both Muhammad (SAW) and Moses were very similar when their lives are examined:
Both grew up orphans; both were bestowed prophet hood in middle age and both married; both were driven out by their people. In fact, both Muhammad (SAW) and Moses brought complete laws of life,
Further in Acts 7:37. This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Hereagain he is mentioned and indeed the Prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) was taught by an angel in a secluded cave (church) where he frequented in the mountain. (wilderness)
whereas Jesus only had come to reform and revive the strength of the Law of Moses, as he himself states in Matthew 5:17-18:
“Think not that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have come not to destroy but to confirm. For truly I say unto you: Until heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from
the Law…”
And Jesus did not fulfill everything, clearly as he spoke in John 16:12-13:
“I have yet many things to say to you but you cannot bear them now. However, when the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that he speak. And he will show you things to come.”
Muhammad (SAW) was commanded thus by God in Qur’an 5.-68:
“Oh Messenger, convey to the people what has been revealed to you from your Lord.”
The entire Qur’an is the exact words of God spoken through Muhammad (SAW), without translation or editing. The Qur’an is the only scripture alive today in the original language in which it was revealed.
Continuing with the prophesy, God said He would put His words in the prophet’s mouth and he shall only speak that which he is commanded. Muhammad (SAW) received revelation and it was branded on his heart’ (as he himself used to explain). The Qur’an attests that Muhammad (SAW) does not speak of his own desires, but that which he is commanded to speak.
Muhammad’s life was meticulously recorded by his companions so much so that they recorded literally how he would brush his teeth. And throughout his entire life, no one saw anything questionable in his character nor was he ever accused of being contradictory or anything but truthful and trustworthy, even by his enemies! Non Muslim studies of Muhammad (SAW) would also concur on this point.
The prophet would speak God’s words in God’s name. The Qur’an contains parts or chapters and each chapter begins with the words, “In the Name of Allah, Most Beneficent, Most Merciful”.
Then, in the very next verse after the last prophesy, God gives the criterion by which we can judge the truth of The Prophet from the liars and false prophets (Deuteronomy 18:20):
“But that prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other Gods, even that prophet shall die.”
This states clearly that the false prophet shall not succeed. Did Muhammad (SAW) succeed? Well, he managed to turn a group of infighting tribes into the strongest force in the world, one billion people follow
him today, countless others have throughout history, and more and more are accepting this message now. When he was informed of the close to end of his life by God, Muhammad (SAW) gave a farewell speech, in which he asked the people whether he had accomplished his mission of warning the people and establishing the Law of God, and the people resoundingly answered affirmatively. In fact, the death of Muhammad (SAW) was so peaceful that the last thing he did before leaving this world was brush his teeth!
Still not convinced?
Now we go to Song of Solomon, 5:10-16. A title of Muhammad (SAW) was “Habeebullah” meaning The beloved of Allah’. Here is the prophesy:
10 "My beloved is white and ruddy.
11 His head is purest gold, his hair is wavy and black as a raven.
15 (describe his eyes, cheeks, lips, arms, body and legs )
16 His mouth is sweetness itself. He is ________" This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
The reason I left the blank is because the word used in the original Hebrew language is stunning. The word is "Muhammadim’. “He is Muhammad”, it reads. The translators decided to translate the name to ‘altogether lovely’ in the English versions, but anyone can go and check it in any Hebrew text.
Also, this description exactly describes the appearance of Muhammad (SAW) according to the descriptions written by his companions. Please, I urge you to think and make your own decision. This could be a coincidence, that could be a coincidence, but how many coincidences can there be? In John 14:15-16,
Jesus says:
“If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another Comforter.”
It is important to note that in other places, Jesus speaks of himself as a Comforter (Paraclete’ from the ancient Greek language), and in this passage the same word is used, ‘Paraclete’. In John 16:7, we have:
“Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. However, if I depart, I will send him to you.”
The apostles do not want him to go, obviously, but he says that if he does not go, the Paraclete cannot come. There is a plan, and it is part of it that he must go away. In John 16:12-14, Jesus says:
“I have yet many things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit, when the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear shall he speak. And he will show you things to come; and he shall glorify me.”
Muhammad (SAW) truly glorified Jesus. In fact, without believing in Jesus, one cannot be a Muslim. Qur’an states that Jesus was one of the greatest 'anbiya (Arabic meaning 'prophet, the word Jesus used to
describe himself). He was born of a miraculous birth from the chaste virgin Mary and he proved himself by many miracles. Truly, Muhammad (SAW) was the Paraclete (or prophet) or Spirit of Truth as foretold by
Jesus as one to guide into all truth. The Qur’an bears clear witness to this, saying in 17:82:
Say [to the people] that the Spirit of Truth has come and falsehood is vanquished. [Qur’an 17:82]
Still not convinced?
In the time of Jesus, the Jews were expecting the coming of three individuals as we read in John 1:19-21:
"Now this was John’s (the Baptist) testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, I am not the Christ.’ They asked him,
‘Are you Elijah?’ He said, No, I am not.’ ‘Are you The Prophet?’ He said, No.’
There was no need to mention details, they were expecting the Christ, Elijah, and The Prophet’. John The Baptist turns out to be Elijah, as Jesus later clarifies in Matthew 11:14: “And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who was to come.”
And in Matthew 17:14: “But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him. ..Then they realized that he was speaking of John The Baptist.”
Obviously, Jesus was the Christ (or ‘anointed one’ in English). John was Elijah. So who was The Prophet’?
Who is the one who was to come from Mount Paran, which is according to Bible scholars, around Mecca and Medina? He was to come with ten thousand saints and bring a fiery law. He was to be like unto Moses and come from the brethren of the Israelites. This Prophet was to speak what words God put in his mouth
and speak ‘in the name of God’. The Prophet was to conquer his enemies and establish the Law of God and guide the faithful into all truth. Who is this Prophet that would only come after the going away of Jesus and would glorify him?
After examining the clear evidences, it is clear that Muhammad (SAW) was The Prophet. It is important to point out that the Jews who lived in Arabia at the time of Muhammad (SAW) were expecting The Prophet’ in the Paran (Arabia) area. They used to mock the pagans that The Prophet would soon come and lead them to victory over the pagans, as foretold in their scriptures. It is also important to understand that there were many Christians who did not believe that Jesus was God. They understood that Jesus was an honored Prophet and Messenger of God, but only human.
These great masses of Christians were concentrated in North Africa, and they were also expecting The Prophet, as the Bible foretold. Therefore, when the message of Islam reached the North Africans, they readily followed the message of The Prophet, Muhammad (SAW). This contributed to the fact that North Africans are Muslims today and the majority of Christians left in the world who did not follow Muhammad (SAW) were and are those that take Jesus to be God.
“… Those who follow the Messenger, the Immaculate One, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel which are with them.” (Qur’an 7:158).
No doubt there are many prophecies regarding the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) in the Bible, but in the above quoted Qur’anic verse, the Torah and the Gospels are especially mentioned; because Moses and Eesa (Jesus) (peace be upon them) were prominent figures among all Israelite prophets.
Muhammad (SAW) confirmed all previous Prophets and said that disbelieving in them was tantamount to disbelief in Islam. It is also clear that many previous Prophets told their people about the coming of The Prophet’. This Prophet would lead the people into all truth and establish the Law and proper way of life for humanity. Not surprisingly, many of these prophesies still can be seen in scriptures of Prophets who came hundreds even thousands of years before Muhammad (SAW)
This ends our discussion of some clear prophesies of The Prophet’ in the Bible. There are many other indicators that the Bible was simply a book of guidance to humanity and Jesus was a Prophet of God, not God himself, and that The Prophet’ and the Fiery Law was to come with the fulfillment of All Truth.
Please examine the evidence put before you and judge with an honest judgment Please do not let the practices of those before you or the majority of people around us today, or the propaganda against Islam lure you away from honesty.
Is it really difficult to understand plain English or do you speak Jibbberish!
'Will a crook admit he's a crook'. No!
I give you and your secret society the challenge of the Qur'aan. Please be man enough to accept.
002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
I beg you to take this challenge up instead of blabbering on about Donald Duck or something.
'The easiest way to dismiss evidence is to overlook evidence and sidetrack the rail'!
Is it really difficult to understand plain English or do you speak Jibbberish!
'Will a crook admit he's a crook'. No!
I give you and your secret society the challenge of the Qur'aan. Please be man enough to accept.
002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
I beg you to take this challenge up instead of blabbering on about Donald Duck or something.
'The easiest way to dismiss evidence is to overlook evidence and sidetrack the rail'!
**
[/quote]
This is the most ridiculous thing. The only proof of Quran being the word of god is the quran. Secondly, to disprove the quran, the quran states to bring a sura or witness or Allah itself. That is the exact gibberish I am debating. Just because the quran verfies that the quran is the last word is ridiculous.
If I am going to hellfire (whatever that is) so be it. I will go there without strapping bombs to my body and blowing up my fellow human beings, because the quran told me jihad is the way. I am prepared to go if it
means I don't have to blow up my historical & cultural legacy (Bamiyan Buddhas) because idolatory is prohibited per quran.
No scripture should promote violence but only love. Unfortunately, so is the way in the quran. Therefor 5/6th of humanity cannot and doesnot believe that quran is the final owrd of god. God is one of love not anger.
Adn Sholay: I already told you, I am gnostic...and a hindu and a muslim...and a christian...and a jew.
I think that no single religion is the path to god. The "good" in each religion is the same , the "bad" is what I can't agree with and thereby refuse to believe that one religion alone is the path to god. So I will question the quran and the bible and the gita and the torah..until I can be satisfied that I have extracted the "good" out of each religion.
[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
** This is the most ridiculous thing. The only proof of Quran being the word of god is the quran.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; I guess you want to prove that you are a lunatic, huh?? Above I gave you proof that you were unable to refute BUT as usual you want to parrot your same old song or is it you have decided to annoy the people on this forum?