Re: Creationists
psyah, There is no science in your posts. And I say this as sincerely as possible. You cannot make up stories in your head and think they are true. What credibility do you have ? Do you understand the concept of scientific research?
You don't understand the basics, that's why i keep on coming back to the basics.
buh bye.
Re: Creationists
psyah, There is no science in your posts. And I say this as sincerely as possible. You cannot make up stories in your head and think they are true. What credibility do you have ? Do you understand the concept of scientific research?
You don't understand the basics, that's why i keep on coming back to the basics.
buh bye.
Peace philosophy
You are absolutely right - there is no science in my posts ... I was not expecting there to be any science in my posts, but I was looking forward to seeing some science in your posts ... like when variation becomes speciation - rather than simply saying this phrase back to me in more words can you actually give me the science (theory) behind the idea of what is happening as a mechanism of speciation? I am not providing science here ... I totally agree ... I am asking a question ... It is you who should be providing the science ... not me. I am the believer - I believe in Creationism ... You ... however are also a believer - a believer in another idea ... called evolution. This is what this thread is amounting to ...
Re: Creationists
What gentlefolk like Mr. Philisophy propel aren't merely ideas. They are researched, published and celebrated homework based on evidence and testing.
you perpetuate and amuse us with a book, with zero credibility, whose "scholars" have never reached a page of any scientific journal in the world, supporting their magical notions. zero.
you can twist that all you want, but that is the fact of the matter. it is frustrating to argue with a child when a child refuses to give up the belief in fairy tales.
Re: Creationists
Peace Med911
I ask you a simple question and you give me this ... My question has been that I understand how variation works ... But I don't quite understand how speciation works. You are merely saying that speciation is a particular form of variation that disables generation x of a species to sire offspring with generation x +1 and allows at the same time for generation x+1 to sire offspring with itself.
If that is the case then the only important factor in speciation is how the DNA in the gametes works ... Is that true?
Secondly, the part in blue ... You statement makes an assumption, that "for two species to diverge", we don't know that, we are checking to see IF two species do indeed diverge ...
The part in bold black above is a tautology look it over ... You are saying variation tends to speciation when enough variation takes place for speciation.
This is bizarre!
Now look there is another reason why I cannot accept evolution and that is because of the idea of cause and effect ... But that is a matter for my next post where I'll try to explain that the established 'aqeedah of AhlusSunnah disallows the belief in evolution from the fundamental point of view of cause and effect.
I don't see why this should be so complicated.
Your reasoning implies that you believe that species diverging means you go from an onion to a potato literally in one giant leap.
Thats obviously not the case. Speciation occurs over a vast time scale. Changes are very gradual, to the point of being imperceptible.
This isn't like Windows 7 not being compatible with Windows XP, its Windows 7 being incompatible with DOS from 1986. Generation x that you speak of has been separated from and evolving separately from their parent species by a million or more years.
The DNA on the Gametes carry each species' individual DNA. Key changes in nucleic acids, up to differences in Chromosome numbers make species incapable of procreating. Chalk these changes up to general mutations across countless generations, until finally you have a complete divergence.
Two species, separated from one another, undergoing mutation, selection etc, are going to diverge over time, thats inevitable. Simple analogy, if we take your post, and randomly remove one letter ever year for the next 1000 years, for the first one hundred years your post would still make some sense and people would understand its your post. But by the end of it, it will be complete gibberish with no relation to your original post. Similarly, species will also diverge if at a steady rate you introduce new mutations, that alter their Genome to the point where its incompletely different from the original.
All Variation are due to small differences within the DNA of a given species. These variations can be small and insignificant, and may well be diluted within the population. So blonde hair for example. Some variations are selected for by nature, skin color, height, being the more obvious. Other variations in the genome that are selected for but are less obvious over the short term, Sickle Cell anemia among Africans, or Cystic Fibrosis among Europeans.
Humans were separated from each other for many millennia. To the extent that we evolved separately in very different environments, subject to different selective forces. Hence we became distinct races. Had we been separated for long enough, the variation among our different races would have become so great, that we would no longer have been able to mate since our original genome would have been altered to such an extent as to not be complimentary.
So variations due to mutation, and the process of selection, which promotes certain variation over others, given enough time, given enough change to the genome, and a separation between a species so as to allow only minor if any admixture, must eventually lead to speciation. Hope thats clearer.
Re: Creationists
^ no reply for that, psyah?
Re: Creationists
Science wins ! 
Re: Creationists
Undoubtedly 
Re: Creationists
Why so many threads on same concepts?
Evolution, creation, religion, no religion. Why can't they be merged or except one all others be closed?
Re: Creationists
Mirchein kion lag rage hainnnn
Re: Creationists
variety is the spice of life!
Re: Creationists
Is this spiciation theory?
Re: Creationists
I don't see why this should be so complicated.
Your reasoning implies that you believe that species diverging means you go from an onion to a potato literally in one giant leap. Thats obviously not the case. Speciation occurs over a vast time scale. Changes are very gradual, to the point of being imperceptible.
This isn't like Windows 7 not being compatible with Windows XP, its Windows 7 being incompatible with DOS from 1986. Generation x that you speak of has been separated from and evolving separately from their parent species by a million or more years.
The DNA on the Gametes carry each species' individual DNA. Key changes in nucleic acids, up to differences in Chromosome numbers make species incapable of procreating. Chalk these changes up to general mutations across countless generations, until finally you have a complete divergence.
Two species, separated from one another, undergoing mutation, selection etc, are going to diverge over time, thats inevitable. Simple analogy, if we take your post, and randomly remove one letter ever year for the next 1000 years, for the first one hundred years your post would still make some sense and people would understand its your post. But by the end of it, it will be complete gibberish with no relation to your original post. Similarly, species will also diverge if at a steady rate you introduce new mutations, that alter their Genome to the point where its incompletely different from the original.
All Variation are due to small differences within the DNA of a given species. These variations can be small and insignificant, and may well be diluted within the population. So blonde hair for example. Some variations are selected for by nature, skin color, height, being the more obvious. Other variations in the genome that are selected for but are less obvious over the short term, Sickle Cell anemia among Africans, or Cystic Fibrosis among Europeans. Humans were separated from each other for many millennia. To the extent that we evolved separately in very different environments, subject to different selective forces. Hence we became distinct races. Had we been separated for long enough, the variation among our different races would have become so great, that we would no longer have been able to mate since our original genome would have been altered to such an extent as to not be complimentary.
So variations due to mutation, and the process of selection, which promotes certain variation over others, given enough time, given enough change to the genome, and a separation between a species so as to allow only minor if any admixture, must eventually lead to speciation. Hope thats clearer.
I just read this Med911 ...
Ok ... So you have said that generation x+1 is always compatible with generation x ... Or with generation x +2, But you say that generation x + 100000 will not be compatible with generation x ... Now this may make sense ... But it is harder to prove.
It is because the genetic structure of generation x - 100000 is unknown to us, specimen of generation x -100000 are not alive either. Looking at the fossil record and we don't get a picture of gradual divergence ... We get gradual divergence of things likes hair colour, skin colour happening over many years, but things like different forms ... We get many of one type of being and then suddenly over about about a calculated 5 to 10,000 years completely different life forms ... The original ones die out and the new ones start to flourish ... Why do the old ones all die out? And how does the x + 100000 theory relate to actual fossil evidence? And how can we actually prove this theory to be a Fact rather than just something we believe in?