how many times did you guys see this on CNN ?? I can bet not too many… Media manipulation has been the strongest of the tools in wars for countries.. US being no exception..
P.S. amazing how One Man’s Terrorist Is Another’s Freedom Fighter !!
Don't like the cheering. Kill the man to put him out of his misery. But that's how soldiers are trained, to win the battle and they get excited when they do so, they detach themselves from what their doing. Warfare is very ugly.
^Not really, British tradition for one has a lot to say about a man when hes down. If this were a brit unit, the injured would probably be crawling out of his misery in a field hospital. The "kill the man to put him out of his misery" makes me think though... would you say the same thing about your soldiers?
We don't know the surrounding circumstances, I'd like to see the footage before this Iraqi was shot, was he trying to surrender, or have a gun or bomb strapped on him? I'm not making excuses but would like to know the circumstances.
^ Did you see a bomb strapped to him in the video? Even in our army there are devices that sweep for battery pulses as an indicator of a detonating device. Surely yours would have more sophisticated instruments. There are also probes that can go and poke the man about. Also who's to say a dead man won't explode? The man was at least 50--75 metres away from the well barricaded and certainly well armed Americans, he was on his knees, not charging the soldiers at full gallop, so what exactly is the "more footage" that you want to see to decide that your soldiers were errant?
Also I am still waiting for an answer to the "kill a man to put him out of his misery" question...
No I don't see a bomb nor any arms on this person, but again I don't see this person running towards me shooting a gun either (did that happen?). What's the situation where this happened, are their Iraqi snipers around or not? Could the American soldiers go out there without being shot at? He was on his knees because he had already been shot once, after he had been shot did this injured person take another shot at the Americans? These are question neither you nor I can answer, so yes I would need more footage to determine what's going on rather than assuming what happened.
^ Excuse me, the man was on his knees and shot in the back. If he had taken a shot at the americans while injured don't you think CNN would have mentioned it oh about 10 times? The standard for most armies to this day is not to shoot a man in the back. Even if there were snipers does that justify shooting an injured man in the back? From the body language of the americans behind thier barricade, it certainly didn't seem like they felt any threat from any snipers and thier cheering at shooting an already injured man seems to back that up (If you are under threat from a sniper you would cheer when the sniper is neutralized no?). Now from this footage and the subsequent interview where there was no mention of a sniper, would it not be a reasonable conclusion to say that the soldiers were focussed on that one injured man who was on his knees when they shot him in the back?
If you would also very kindly explain you "shooting the man to put him out of his misery" comment, I would be most thankful.
The laws of war are very clear. Once a man has ceased to be a combatant, he should be taken prisoner. Now if he posed a threat in another fashion (there are comments below the video that imply the guy on the ground was placing explosives) such as having a detonator, then he would remain a threat.
As far as the emotions of the soldiers, adrenaline on the battlefield changes people. If these kids had seen the death of one of their buddies through a roadside bomb they might well be celebrating. The next day it may be different. It is hard to make any determination, as there appears to be a lot before and after the video clip that has been edited. I would imagine that the army should investigate.
UTD, your excuses are becoming lame by the day. For God sake admit it that what these soldiers were saying is wrong. "Lets do it again". You dont think that this footage is going to be played by the Arab and Muslim media? There will be 1000's of Muslims who will volunteer to fight against the americans after seeing this footage. US is only creating more enemies, not friends. They can either show some compassion(when the man is down), or stop relaying these footages around the world. I will prefer they show some compassion and maybe someone will remidn them that there is something called POW.
That's a whole lot to go off of, eh? I don't know what happened there any more than you do, so I'm not going to comment on the clip. But it is interesting how the assumption of a wartime excess, real or imagined, can lead people to become terrorists willing to kill themselves and several innocents not associated with the event they claim they are avenging. "They might be murdering pigs, so I'll be a worse murdering pig!" Is that it?
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The laws of war are very clear. Once a man has ceased to be a combatant, he should be taken prisoner. Now if he posed a threat in another fashion **(there are comments below the video that imply the guy on the ground was placing explosives) **such as having a detonator, then he would remain a threat.
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The transcript says that the man was writhing. I don't see an implication of placing a bomb in the word "writhing". Secondly, like I mentioned before nowadays all armies have small devices that can scan for EM pulses so I am sure the soldiers could have found out. If if they had found that out to be the case, it would have been mentioned a good many times.
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As far as the emotions of the soldiers, adrenaline on the battlefield changes people. If these kids had seen the death of one of their buddies through a roadside bomb they might well be celebrating. The next day it may be different. It is hard to make any determination, as there appears to be a lot before and after the video clip that has been edited. I would imagine that the army should investigate.
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Maybe we can start another thread on adrenaline and its effects in battle. You are right that the army should investigate....it should investigate the commander of these troops to see if he was holding his troops to a high standard of military conduct.
PS I am still waiting for my Eidi OG... :)
wow these american GI Joes are so brave killing in cold blood an injured soldier from a more than safe distance!
Then you can understand why so many iraqis want them dead look at the attitude of these so called soldiers whoo hooo yippee we killed a disabled soldier!
disgraceful!
Y'know on second glance, it looks like he could have been reaching for a grenade.. "EM pulses" (that's not actually what they use, plus it's EOD units that have that kind of equipment, not your avg Marine infantry squad, but I'll play along) don't do jack for low-tech grenades.
AK, you’re so brave chanting from the sidelines. I just wanted to congratulate you for that. :k:
Spoon take the spoon out your mouth and stick to the topic. this video shows the cowards for how they really are.
Nothing but cowards land of the brave is that what they call america is it, huh what a joke!
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Y'know on second glance, it looks like he could have been reaching for a grenade.. "EM pulses" (that's not actually what they use, plus it's EOD units that have that kind of equipment, not your avg Marine infantry squad, but I'll play along) don't do jack for low-tech grenades.
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Spoon can an injured person throw a grenade 50--75 metres over a barricade while taking small arms fire? There are a number of devices that are used some of them detect EM pulses. They are carried by infantary to detect mines/booby traps in urban settings (this being what it is). They however do not detect grenades as you have said. But then again go back to the first line.
M, I'd put that at about 25-30m, and yes.. especially if he were to get up and run with it (remember: we don't know the extent of his injuries, maybe he just tripped and broke his nose?)
You're seriously overestimating the capabilities of technology. Explosive detection devices are not something you can whip out, press a button and have an answer. They require training to manipulate, and while every Marine is a rifleman, not every Marine is an EOD tech expert. Like I said, not every unit carries such equipment, in fact very few do.
There was no magic tool to identify conclusively whether this man had explosives or another such weapon on his person at the time of this shooting. The Marine's judgement, borne out of strenuous training, and by then I'm sure plenty of experience, would have been the only way to obtain an answer. Judgement can be wrong. But when it is, it is not necessarily due to malice or incompetence. We don't know about this case.
If you want to get more detailed on this, get more details. That clip shows next to nothing. Petition CNN for the rest. Submit a FOIA for the after action reports from that unit. Whatever, just keep in mind that at this moment we don't have all the details. In our free, democratic societies we like to think people are innocent until proven guilty. If you don't believe in that then what exactly are you arguing for?
Can you imagine the disgusting terrorism these American GI Joes get upto when they know that there are no cameras about!
That video footage makes me want to mutilate and torture those SOB American soldiers until there is no tomorrow!
great work by these GIs to eliminate this cowardly bomb planting terrorist scumbag. No telling how many lives they may have saved - both other soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians. These guys deserve a heroe's welcome when they come home.