Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
This is about an idiotic judgement call that has been transformed into something greater, free speech, because of the Muslim over reaction. What Muslims call "protection", the rest of the world calls impostion of Muslim restrictions on non-Muslims. In short, as Seminole suggested, subjugating everyone to Muslims laws.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
The Jews were depicted as murderes/peadophiles/thieves in cartoon form by Hitler...nope not fascism or hate speech just good old free speech.
Twerp.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
And there are tons of anti arab or anti muslim caricatures, stories, movies, what nots. We are used to those, and live with them and even laugh at them, ehen they are intended to be satirical and not demonising. However, I do not recall a single caricature from an arab paper poking fun at moses, abraham, jesus, mary etc.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Ok the protests may have gone over board a lil, more so because the dane PM handled the issue really badly, that the danes are blaming him. However, this issue is not about how muslims fare in the west. Nor is it about winning the hearts and mind crap. Have you ever considered the protests might actually be because muslims are actually offended by these images???
*Thats what the bigot does not get. He wants respect but he’s not prepared to give respect. If i dont agree with his views, that doesnt mean i go ridiculing them. And it certainly doesnt mean I ask for respect from people who’se beliefs ive just disrespected!!!
respect is not submission. There is a difference, which alot of other intelligent people are able to recognise.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Why would they? It is blasphemous to do so as they are their prophets as well. So instead they choose whatever they think will offend westerners most that doesn't break their traditions like burning effigies of western leaders, their flags or their embassies.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Thats what the bigot does not get. He wants respect but he's not prepared to give respect. If i dont agree with his views, that doesnt mean i go ridiculing them. And it certainly doesnt mean I ask for respect from people who'se beliefs ive just disrespected!!! respect is not submission. There is a difference, which alot of other intelligent people are able to recognise.
In his view Muslims are disrespecting his culture by expecting to be exempt from freedom of expression laws.
No - respect is not submission, but you are expecting Danes to be submissive to Islamic culture in their own country. A lot of intelligent people recognize that as well.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
They are submissive to jewish sensibilities but not to Muslim sensibilities.
"A lot of intelligent people recognize that as well"
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Oh Please!
Recently there was news about a series of articles in a Saudi government funded newspaper about how Jews kill children and take their blood with Matzo balls to celebrate their Passover festival. Many many times I have seen Pakistani papers print bloody devil like cartoons depicting “Kali” and other Hindu gods. When the Taliban destroyed Bamiyan Buddhas, many people here on Gupshup said that it was justified under Islam (while a few condemned it). Did Muslim countries call on the Taliban to rebuild the Buddhas or boycott the Afghan govt? How many Muslim nations apologized to Buddhists for destroying one of Buddhism’s greatest religious treasures?
The Danish paper showed itself to be bigoted by publishing the cartoons insulting Muslims. But Muslim protestors hardly protest their own bad actions. Destroying priceless statues is okay but burn and kill in the name of cartoons by some bigots.
The hysterical reaction is just showing what the cartoonists wanted to happen.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Ma Mooli,
How many Muslim countries or groups apologized to Buddhists when the Taliban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas? Did any Muslim country break relations with the Taliban? Did Pakistan do so? Do Muslims say that Saudis putting people in jail for even praying with the Bible is wrong?
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
[quote]
Many many times I have seen Pakistani papers print bloody devil like cartoons depicting "Kali" and other Hindu gods.
[/quote]
Many many times? Name of the paper and the date? Link?
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
I saw over a dozen times. “The Nation” and “Pakistan Observer” in particular during the 2002-03 border crisis. They don’t keep web archives. One I remember in particular was a cartoon of a Hindu Goddess with blood dripping from her teeth and a caricature of a Hindu man with a “choti” on a bald head laughing. If you can find me a place where these papers store their archives, I can dig them out for you.
BTW, what about the Bamiyan Buddhas? Can’t deny that can you? But hey Buddhists are pushovers, right?
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
Most bigots defending this act as a 'freedom of expression; speaks volumes and volumes about their mentality…
It is as if decency, morality, respect, tolerance and beliefs of others can be sacrificed to this immoral representation of what freedom of expression entails…
I have yet to see a condemnation from ‘freedom of expression’ supporters for this open and blatant disrespect to the sacrosanct firgure of another’s beliefs…
Everyone has a right to freedom of expression…But anytime that right infrignges or targets upon the sacred of another’s beliefs or preference, it ceases to remain freedom of expression…It becomes incitement…And incitement by using hatred, intolerance and ignorance…
And those supporting this sort of freedom of expression obviously are either too dumb or too ignorant to realize where responsibility of one’s rights begin and end, and in their zealotry to protect those rights, are in reality supporting incitement…
And in my view, if their support is neither through stupidity or ignorance, then it surely springs from intolerable hatred and dislike of everything that the Holy Prophet :saw: stands for and what he means to Muslims…
And if such intolerable hatred can exist within a heart of a person, no doubt, he would be able and willing to commit many other intolerable acts of heinousness in the name of other rights as well…Bias can not be hidden and does surface sooner or later no matter how masked, covered or indirect it may be…
You can decorate siht as beautifully as you like, but those with a sense of smell can discern it for what it is…
There are other rights as well and depending upon the circumstances, misuse of rights can be punished…
The mockery of another’s figure of belief or belief itself is a deplorable act and every educated and moderately well-mannered person realizes that and would never infringe such act and neither support it…The very literate would actually condemn such an act as an abuse and misuse of the right of freedom of expression…They would in no way stand for such an act being anywhere close to being in the realms of freedom of expression…
Freedom of expression is all around us…Howard Stern talks about nothing more than scatological and sexual references, so most blue collar workers enjoy hos talk…Bill O’Reilly openly makes remarks about attacking other nations, but most people realize he is a nut job but he is a favourite of most rednecks…And many more…
However, if they were to attack Judaism or Christianity, no doubt their ‘freedom of expression’ would be retracted…And rightly so…
But when the newspapers of Denmark openly and maliciously carried out such a hateful act, that act was protected as ‘freedom of expression’, even by our very own regular Americanists who visit this board…An open act of animosity is being protected behind the veil of ‘freedom of expression’ deliberately undermining the emotions and feelings of every Muslim on the planet…
I have always repeated the words of the Quran again and again and again…The Kuffar will never be friends or allies of any Muslim as long he believes in Allah :swt: and His Messenger :saw:…
I remember a story of Jacob in the Bible…A tribe of thousnads of men, women and children came to the tribes of the Hebrews…They desired that they be allowed to join them Hebrews as they would like to be like them…
The leaders of the Hebrews said, you are more than welcome to be part of our tribe, but there is just one requirement we need from you…We need that every male must be circumcised before becoming one of us…
The visiting tribe agreed, and during three days, every male of the visiting tribe got willingly and happily circumcised thiniking they would be part god’s bigger family…
Now, since after circumcision, a person is sore for about a week, he has trouble walking and sitting, the men were incapacitated…In that state, the Hebrews attacked the visiting tribe killing every male since they were unable to defend themselves…They killed every male, raped the women and made the children their captives…
Many from our tribe of Islam willingly go to the Kuffar to try and appease them, willing not only to be circumcised but willing to cut off their peckers in order to appease them, even turning their backs on their own tribe by calling other Muslims names especially if they are religious…
The point I am trying to make, is that no amount of appeasing or well mannered act would have gotten the point across…They speak the language of hate and should be answered appropriately…
Trespass can be forgiven against one’s own self…Islamic personalities are a different matter…And if they can’t realize that than they should be made to realize it…
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
BTW, what about the Bamiyan Buddhas? Can't deny that can you? But hey Buddhists are pushovers, right?
What about the Babri Masjid? And Gujrat? But hey, Muslims are pushovers, right?
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
I have never read Pakistan Observer. I visited a site. Tell me which Pakistan Observer you read. The web address of The Nation is ’ [www.nation.com.pk '](http://www.nation.com.pk '). I went there, changed the dates, and saw the archives from November 2004 onwards. You say you saw such cartoons over a dozen times during the border crises. Now you have to prove that they had an online edition during 2002 - 2003. I don’t even know who/what Kali is, and how they can possibly portray a Hindu god… I just want to see the proof. You said you remember these papers in particular. Were there any other newspapers/magazines in general which published such cartoons? Other major Pakistani newspapers are Dawn and The News. Please find me the cartoons you’re talking about.
Thank you.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
We will blast the priceless statues of other religions and celebrate it as part of our “respect” for your religion but if some idiots dare to insult our religion, we will cut your throat.
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
[quote]
The mockery of another's figure of belief or belief itself is a deplorable act and every educated and moderately well-mannered person realizes that and would never infringe such act and neither support it
[/quote]
I guess Muslims can mock and blast other religions when they are in power and come up with clever explanations for it (Bamiyan Buddhas, Saudi prohibition of other religions etc.) but God save a country if it has a few idiots who dare to mock Islam. The new motto - "Islam - we will mock your religion, blast your statues, execute you for daring to practice your religion in our lands but you dare not insult us"
Re: Clarification on the cartoon please
**Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons **
Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today. The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny. In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten. Zieler received an email back from the paper’s Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: “I don’t think Jyllands-Posten’s readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them.” The illustrator told the Norwegian daily Dagbladet, which saw the email: “I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy.” “I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny.” He said that he felt Jyllands-Posten rated the feelings of its Christian readers higher than that of its Muslim readers.
But the Jyllands-Posten editor in question, Mr Kaiser, told MediaGuardian.co.uk that the case was "ridiculous to bring forward now. It has nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons. “In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I did not ask for these cartoons. That’s the difference,” he said. “The illustrator thought his cartoons were funny. I did not think so. It would offend some readers, not much but some.” The decision smacks of “double-standards”, said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman for the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring, the umbrella group that represents 27 Muslim organisations that are campaigning for a full apology from Jyllands-Posten. “How can Jyllands-Posten distinguish the two cases? Surely they must understand,” Mr Akkari added.