Claims of torture in Guantanamo Bay

Claims of torture in Guantanamo Bay
Reporter: Ben Knight

Guantanamo detainee Mamdouh Habib (ABC)

LINDA MOTTRAM: New claims have emerged that prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are being tortured by their American captors, and the claims say that Australians David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib are among the victims.

US-based Australian lawyer, Richard Bourke, has made the allegations after working for almost two years on the cases of Camp X-Ray detainees. He says that he and his colleagues have been receiving reports of horrendous abuse of prisoners in Cuba, and in Afghanistan.

They’ve made slow progress through the American court system. Mr Bourke says he’s now prepared to take the cases to international tribunals, including the UN Standing Committee on Torture.

Ben Knight reports.

BEN KNIGHT: Two years ago, Richard Bourke was a Melbourne criminal barrister, who left for the US to defend death row inmates who couldn’t afford lawyers. Not long after he arrived there, David Hicks was arrested in Afghanistan and since then, Richard Bourke has been working on his case, as well as those of dozens of other Camp X-ray inmates.

Two weeks ago, he helped open a resource centre for other lawyers doing the same, but progress through the American courts has been slow and now, Richard Bourke says he and his colleagues will look at taking their cases to international tribunals like the International Court of Justice and the UN Standing Committee on Torture.

RICHARD BOURKE: They are torturing people. They are torturing people on Guantanamo Bay. They are subjecting them to cruel and unnecessary treatment. And people sometimes argue about the definition of torture. What they’re doing clearly comes within the definition of torture under the convention, under the international convention, but it also…they are engaging in acts which amount to torture in the medieval sense of the phrase. They are engaging in good old-fashioned torture, as people would have understood it in the Dark Ages.

BEN KNIGHT: Richard Bourke says reports have been leaked by American military personnel, adding to the descriptions given by prisoners who’ve already been released.

RICHARD BOURKE: One of the detainees had described being taken out and tied to a post and having rubber bullets fired at them. They were being made to kneel cruciform in the sun until they collapsed.

The reports about the number of suicide attempts and the level of mental health of the detainees is evidence of the treatment that they’re receiving.

BEN KNIGHT: And he believes the two Australian detainees, David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib, have also been tortured.

RICHARD BOURKE: I, I don’t doubt that. I think the very fact that David Hicks was one of the first designated for prosecution is clear evidence that he has made confessions, presumably multiple confessions to something or other and has indicated that he is willing to take a plea.

The US tactic is to have a series of show trials in which people admit their guilt and plead guilty to vindicate the US policy amongst those early prosecutions and the fact that David Hicks was designated simply backs up what they’ve done.

BEN KNIGHT: A spokesman for the Federal Attorney-General, Philip Ruddock, confirmed that no one has raised these allegations before. He also said that Australian officials who’ve visited Guantanamo Bay reported that the two men were in good health, and being treated humanely and that the Red Cross also has access to the prisoners.

But lawyers have still been unable to get to them and while two of Richard Bourke’s colleagues are currently applying to represent David Hicks at the military tribunal, the American courts will not allow an Australian lawyer to do the same.

Richard Bourke says it’s now time to take these cases to the international justice bodies, but he concedes it’s not going to be easy.

RICHARD BOURKE: What we really require is other governments around the world to be willing to stand up and say, we think there’s a problem here and we want it investigated. We want the UN to be investigating the reports of torture as they’re empowered to do under the torture convention.

There is enough evidence out there to justify them looking at what’s occurring and they’ve certainly looked at other situations with far less evidence. What we need is a government to sponsor that type of action.

LINDA MOTTRAM: Richard Bourke is an Australian lawyer working full time in the US on the cases of detainees at Guantanamo Bay and in Afghanistan. He was speaking to Ben Knight.

Comment:

The US claims that they are the maintainers of human rights and people like saddam hussain are evil because they violate the rights of their citizens. But the Americans think that they are above all laws and can do as they wish to extract forced confessions. Where are the human rights organisations like Amnesty International and others who constantly accuse muslim countries of violating human rights why do they not expose the americans violations in Guantanamo bay, is it because they are a political tool in the hands of the american government?

This is clearly a legal/political/criminal issue. Instead of Religion Forum it should be discussed in WA forum. Thus moved.

does muslims have any rights?

Not terrorists...they have no rights..

well none of the prisoners have been charged of anything so far so how are they terrosists then? just bcos americans rounded them up and put them in prison does not make them terrorists. bring the proof and show it to the world but then again that they will cite national security crap and will try to prosecute these people through military courts. :nook:

^^ Mats War Criminals and terrorists have certain minimum rights, that’s what supposedly separates the civilised and the uncivilised.

Panorama did a major piece on Guantanamo Bay. It was very disturbing especially those poor people who were arrested without any reason and lost everything they had, BBC NEWS | Programmes | Panorama | Inside Guantanamo

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by BabyGulabJaman: *
does muslims have any rights?
[/QUOTE]

Ans: a little more then a gulab jaman's.:)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Poodenay_Ki_Chutney: *

Ans: a little more then a gulab jaman's.:)
[/QUOTE]

poodenay ki chutney would be high on human rights agenda :p

Rather than listening to a terrorists LAWYER, perhaps it would be better to defer to the Red Cross who has been doing regular inspections at Guantanamo. The Red Cross wants those held there to have speedier trials, but there has been not a word of any torture.

Wake me when the Red Cross has an objection.

Now the US regime is even dismissing what the Red Cross is saying…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7479-2003Oct10.html

Red Cross Condemns Prolonged Detention at Guantanamo

The International Red Cross condemned the prolonged detention of U.S. military prisoners without legal rights at Guantanamo Bay, saying Friday that mental instability and attempted suicides among detainees indicated severe problems with the U.S. operation. Wrapping up a two-month visit to the Cuban base, the organization – the only independent group with access to the approximately 650 detainees – said it found “a worrying deterioration” in mental health among many prisoners. It blamed their being held indefinitely without charges or legal counsel. “They have no idea about their fate and they have no means of recourse at their disposal through any legal mechanism,” said Florian Westphal, spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross. He declined to be specific about the suicide attempts, but noted reports of dozens of cases. “We can say in general that whenever we have situations in the place of detention where there are suicide attempts, this is obviously a reason for concern,” he told The Associated Press.

The ICRC refuses to address the physical treatment of the detainees, but instead has focused its repeated criticism of Washington on U.S. military detainees being held without legal rights. White House spokesman Scott McClellan rejected the ICRC criticism. “I remind you these are enemy combatants that are being detained at Guantanamo Bay,” he said. “They are treated humanely.” Some detainees, suspected of links to the fallen Afghan Taliban regime or al-Qaida terrorist network, have been at Guantanamo for more than 18 months. Westphal said the ICRC had yet to see “any significant movement” from American officials on its long-standing request that the United States treat the detainees in accordance with international conventions governing prisoners or war. “We have observed what we consider to be a worrying deterioration in the psychological health of a large number of the internees” because of the uncertainty of their situation, Westphal said. The ICRC team met with U.S. officials Thursday in Guantanamo. On Wednesday, an AP reporter at the base arranged to meet with the ICRC but U.S. military officials refused to allow the interview, saying permission had not been granted by the Department of Defense. The neutral, Swiss-run organization has been appealing in private to the Bush administration for due process since soon after the detention center was opened in early 2002, the spokesman noted. In an unusual move, ICRC went public with that appeal in May when its president, Jakob Kellenberger, met with top Bush administration officials in Washington. A statement posted on the ICRC Web site in August notes ongoing concern “about the impact the seemingly open-ended detention is having on the internees.”

“As the internees spend more time in Guantanamo and continue to have no idea what is going to happen to them, we are concerned that the impact on them will get more serious,” Westphal said. Already, he added, “what we are seeing during our repeated visits is that this uncertainty has definitely had an impact on the internees.” During the current visit, ICRC representatives privately interviewed many detainees, he said. Those held at Guantanamo come from more than 40 countries and speak about 17 languages, the ICRC said. Red Cross teams also have been giving the detainees messages from their families and have collected their return messages – so far about 8,000. For many, the letters are their main way of staying in touch with relatives. The agency, the guardian of the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of warfare, noted that the United States has refused to grant the detainees prisoner of war status but has promised to treat them humanely. Whatever the status, the ICRC said: “People held as a result of conflict or armed violence are protected by international humanitarian law, and should be treated humanely.”

Well let's see....

If these detainees were POW's, at the end of the war they would be returned....

So tell me, is the conflict with Al Qaeda over? Some agreement been signed that I don't know about?

Wake me when Colin Powell and OBL are signing some document in a dusty tent somewhere with Al-Qaeda agreeing not to attack the US. Will be happy to release the terrorists then.....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Well let's see....

If these detainees were POW's, at the end of the war they would be returned....

So tell me, is the conflict with Al Qaeda over? Some agreement been signed that I don't know about?

Wake me when Colin Powell and OBL are signing some document in a dusty tent somewhere with Al-Qaeda agreeing not to attack the US. Will be happy to release the terrorists then.....
[/QUOTE]

well how many have been charged as terrorists / fighters? for over 2 years now, they have been in jail without any charges against them.

If they were POW's, they would not have to be "charged" with anything....

I say, just tell them that they are POW's, and when a peace treaty is signed, they will be repatraited. Easy!

^ POW's have certain rights as well, and they can't be tortured the way those people are in Guantonomo Bay. Btw OG did Maliks post wake you?

:rotfl: And now having been caught napping he is giving replies as if he was sleep walking.

"POW's have certain rights as well, and they can't be tortured the way those people are in Guantonomo Bay."

Zakk, the Red Cross is the only agency with onsite inspections of the camp, and they are handling it in a fashion similar to the Geneva conventions. Under those conventions if they found anything wrong with the physical treatment of the prisoners they would first privately confront the captors. If the situation was not resolved to the satisfaction of the Red Cross, then they would go public with allegations. By inference we can assume that either no physical mistreatment has taken place, or that if the Red Cross detected such abuse, that is was resolved to the satisfaction of the Red Cross. You will have to do much better than some guys lawyer mouthing off to make the "torture" charge stick.

and no, Maliks posts are without a doubt the most predictable and stupor inducing............

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *

Zakk, the Red Cross is the only agency with onsite inspections of the camp, and they are handling it in a fashion similar to the Geneva conventions.
[/QUOTE]

So the Red Cross has not condemned the US over the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay?

OG, this is from the link I pasted earlier on this thread:

*CHRISTOPHE GIROD of the ICRC: The point is that the US authorities have put the internees in Guantanamo beyond the law. That means that
after more than 18 months of captivity for some of them, the internees have no idea about their fate, and no
means of recourse through any legal mechanism.

We do have access to Bagram Detention Centre.
However, only to detainees a few weeks after their arrival,
which means that during this few weeks some people might be released and we would never know of them
having been held in Bagram, and they would never have seen an ICRC delegate, or they might be
transferred to some other unknown places and we would not know of them, and that’s the problem, and
that’s what we’re negotiating with the US.
*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ama/3122416.stm

[quote]
CHRISTOPHE GIROD of the ICRC: The point is that the US authorities have put the internees in Guantanamo beyond the law. That means that after more than 18 months of captivity for some of them, the internees have no idea about their fate, and no means of recourse through any legal mechanism. *We do have access to Bagram Detention Centre. *
[/quote]

It's wakey, wakey time for some people. :)

Zakk,

The title of this thread is TORTURE in huge screaming headlines, which seems to have a visceral response from the Anti-US crowd. No doubt there is an ongoing conflict as to the status of the detainees. That is a far cry from TORTURE!

As we discussed when Guantanamo first opened, this is a different type of conflict. Al-Qaeda is a headless, stateless hydra with no formal organizational structure that had hijacked the country of Afghanistan as it's base. Yet most combatants were not Afghanis, and the Taliban government was only recognized by two counties in the world, and never by the UN. The fighters never wore uniforms as called for by the Geneva conventions to prevent injury of civilians, and many paid fighters from foreign countrys could have qualified as mercenaries who are afforded no protection under the Genva accords.

In Vietnam the US fought with handcuffs. The enemy resupplied by going through Laos and Cambodia. Because we had not declared war on those two countries we could not touch the enemies supply lines. Now large multi-national terrorist organizations defy legal descriptions, and the conventions of war that the Geneva Accords that were designed to handle the last war, but not future wars. The detainees are fed, clothed, and given medical attention. They can worship, send letters to their families, and while their treatment may not be comfortable, it is appropriate. It is far better than Daniel Pearl, or one of our troops would expect.

Good enough for me....

Now tell me, if they are indeed POW's as the Red Cross contends, will OBL every sign a treaty? Would it be legal ? Answer these questions and then we can discuss how the Red Cross should be involved....