[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
And so on.
[/QUOTE]
I think you have failed already its capitalism on question here not me.
You have failed to even defend capitalism or acknowledge what rubbish and corrupt system it really is.
As for democracy thats a non starter which you dont even implement in US you got the wrong president in power for a start.
So try again.
Another four sentence reply. I give up....
Ohio
I know its kinda boring in ohio
But you should really stick to the topic.
What have you got to offer the world with capitalism and democracy.
The western governments have failed to convince muslim world of capitalism and democrohypocrisy.
they have now resorted to military intervention and occupation after failing to convince the muslims politically, this shows your ideas are not even good enough to convince the people, you have lost already because now you have resorted to brute force!
sigh who will explain the whole concept of electoral college here :)
sistaani sure seems to be asking for democracy, as do many people in arab countries who want a representative government.
so monrachy is failing, but maintained by status quo. and people are asking for representation, i see that as people lookign for democracy.
now as far as capitalism goes, i do believe that the markets are becoming fairly open, and have never been communist type markets in general.
so what is another alternative? anarchy?
AK46,
Read my profile you twit, I do not live in Ohio.
Congratualtions, the last reply was 5 whole sentences.
Now, we have gathered that you do not like capitalism and democracy. Please discuss an alternative and show an example of it's success.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
so what is another alternative? anarchy?
[/QUOTE]
As you say, there aren't many many choices left. If guns could think coherently the answer would be a theocracy or an oligarchy run by clergy. Since there is no evidence that Muslims are clamoring for this and there is no possibility of implementing shariah in the 80% of the world that is non-Muslim, it is obviously not the answer.
Democracy is a run away freight train. Non-passengers should climb on board or get out of the way.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
AK46,
Read my profile you twit, I do not live in Ohio.
Congratualtions, the last reply was 5 whole sentences.
Now, we have gathered that you do not like capitalism and democracy. Please discuss an alternative and show an example of it's success.
[/QUOTE]
Ohiogay
I don't have time to read profiles i am not that sad.
Seeing as you still cannot utter the words Capitalism is rubbish why is that you cannot even defend it are you that shallow.
So tell me why has the western world which is the bastion of capitalism and democrohypocrisy resorted to military intervention in the muslim world?
Try putting up a defense of the system which you support capitalism and capitalist policies.
As for alternatives no problem plenty of time for that but first thing first capitalism exposed and democracy debunked as ideas thats what this topic is about if you did'nt already realise!
So let's retitle this one bash capitalism. Whoopee...
Let's forget about AK90210 for a moment.
For the rest of us, let's assume that the natural yearnings of humankind for freedom and the exercise of free-will has a tendency over time to push a society/country toward democracy and/or capitalism.
With the breakup of the Soviet Empire and the Eastern bloc, we can see that societies can and do move from autocratic communism to democracy and capitalism without some transitional form of government or economy. In China, we see slow moves toward privatization and capitalism without changing to democracy.
In Iran, we moved from autocratic shah to autocratic clerical rule and the democracy movement has been ever so slowly gaining in strength.
I guess we're trying to force Iraq to skip the step of autocratic clerical rule before the people get democracy and capitalism.
Are there any generalizations we can come up with regarding a natural progression of growth/progress that leads to the emergence of either democracy or capitalism out of some other form of government/economic system? Or is every transition to democracy and/or capitalism unique?
I wish I could find an artcle that I read a while ago. It was called "Foundations for Democracy", and it prescribed the conditions that must exist for a Democracy to succeed.
The premise is that certain things can derail a democracy, and that true democracy is a fragile thing, not a robust thing. Examples from the article are freedom from corruption, honest judges, effective legal system, a military willing to cede contol to civilian authority, passive neighbors, people willing to work toward democracy, freedom from overwhelming plague, no civil wars, reasonable views on minority treatment, etc, etc, etc.
For democracy to succeed, all these bricks must be in the foundation. But if people are starving, there is no hope for democracy. Lastly the author talked about culture. The chinese, and the japanese before them have a culture that reveres intelligence and success. Those qualities are somewht diminished in a Latin culture. (On the other hand, I love Latin food and parties, for like the Italians, they value the pursuit of life, not just success). To blame "democracy" or "capitalism" for every failure in a country is to ignore the role the entiretly of the culture plays in the success of the country. Democracy and captalism are simply a structure for organizing a group of people. Certainly culture encompasses religion and the conflicts that can also exist between relgious groups, which is alto often a cause for war these days.
As I have said before, democracy is a long term commitment. There is absolutely no guarantee that on ony given day, or on any given moment a policy or action of the country will be correct. Like a sailing ship in a heavy sea the process of Democracy, when diligently defended, is a self righting mechanism. Richard Nixon is a thief. He is going to be impeached, so he steps down from power. There was not an instant when the Republic was in jeopardy. Kennedy is killed, the smooth succession of power takes place and the country is intact. Bush and Gore dispute election results, the supreme court rules and a smooth transition of power takes place. People have confidence in the system, and they are in agreement with the process, and accept the outcome.....
Democracy has not failed, from time to time people have failed democracy. But never on the face of the earth has a true democracy been replaced by another syetem, and the people are happy with it. Once you have tasted democracy, you will not be wishing a dictator back into power.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
So tell me why has the western world which is the bastion of capitalism and democrohypocrisy resorted to military intervention in the muslim world?
[/QUOTE]
America and UK are not the entire Western world, nor do the 60 non-entities forming the coalition of the willing make up the entire Western World. There are plenty of funtioning democracies who oppsed unilateral military action, more importantly there was popular support against war.
But in any system, the decision makers can make stupid decisions. Be it in foreign policy or in interpretation of law......That is because Democracy, capitalsism is not perfect, nor is the Shariah, regardless of ho many times you repeat it.....
What is required though is for these concepts to be moulded through public opinion and on a case to case basis so that the people of each country benefit.
But what has been seen over time and over many countries not just the US and UK is that basic democratic principles like Elected representatives for a set period of time, Freedom to work and live etc, have been very popular.
These basic principles have to be backed up by effective laws, policies and people and that is where most of the failure has been seen, but then this is a common problem seen in any system, Capitalist, communist, socialist, islamic etc...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
America and UK are not the entire Western world, nor do the 60 non-entities forming the coalition of the willing make up the entire Western World. There are plenty of funtioning democracies who oppsed unilateral military action, more importantly there was popular support against war.
But in any system, the decision makers can make stupid decisions. Be it in foreign policy or in interpretation of law......That is because Democracy, capitalsism is not perfect, nor is the Shariah, regardless of ho many times you repeat it.....
What is required though is for these concepts to be moulded through public opinion and on a case to case basis so that the people of each country benefit.
But what has been seen over time and over many countries not just the US and UK is that basic democratic principles like Elected representatives for a set period of time, Freedom to work and live etc, have been very popular.
These basic principles have to be backed up by effective laws, policies and people and that is where most of the failure has been seen, but then this is a common problem seen in any system, Capitalist, communist, socialist, islamic etc...
[/QUOTE]
I don't really see how you can argue that the western world has not resorted to military bullying and intervention when it is clear cut.
Democrohypocrisy has been rejected by muslim world aswell as the capitalist policies the muslim populations want to rule by islam they do not want these secular jungle laws from the west.. even the puppet rulers cannot be trusted anymore by america and britain The colonial powers have now resorted to using the gun and intervention to force these countries to accept there way of life or else!
There may have been vocal opinion against war but that did not stop the hundreds of billions being spent and countries being invaded and bombed. THe action was still implemented so much for listening to the people for the people by the people and the rest of the garbage they claim democracy is!
you also stated election in uk, us etc is popular from my last reading of this situation it has become so unpopular that lethargy has set in long time and people don't even bother to vote any more because they see the same old faces from the same 1 or 2 parties with basically the same policies who come once every 3 or 4 years to your house promise you this that and the rest and once these politicians get the vote and in power they basically lie and dont implement what they promised.
as for freedom to work and live i think this would be principle of any of the systems out there capitalism did not invent the concept of business and trading or life itself it just corrupted it!