...what do the words "create" and "lift" mean? what we know of the meanings of these words as humans is limited to our human limits...yes, maybe the argument is relevent that God cannot "create" and "lift" a rock heavier than He has the, God forbid, Capacity to, but that argument ends only bacause thats where our human limits end and we can go no farther, perceive no more, there begins more truth about Allah and what He can create or not, lift or not...only we perceive not! at this point the reasoning that if we can imagine something that we cannot imagine, then we can imagine it...can be brought in, but then again, we have to realize that we as humans do not have the capacity or we are not built in a way to perceive something that our brains have not been programmed to perceive...a human from say a 175 years ago was smart enough to dream of and imagine a flying machine, but was not able to conceive what the Wright brothers were able to mechanically conceive some 75 years later due to their mechanical experinece and technical knowhow gained from making bicycles...which were being manufactured since long long before too, but no one got it right before them...
perhaps we as humans are smart enough to imagine and dream and hope but are not able understand the possibilities that a Superior Being can do...maybe this whole argument is not that big a deal for atheists or polytheists..they either dont believe in Him, or have division of labour...if one god cant create it the other could and if couldnt lift, the other would for them...for us Faith in the One Supreme existance is what keeps us sane and makes us Muslims and believers in truth...in his Supreme Capacity, Ability...blind Faith in Him and his Supremity...
this whole issue is one of those issues for which we as muslims are told not to think, as we are not made to understand them, and if we cling to trying to finding answers for these issues we would only waste our lives and literally go mad, as the answers are not meant for human beings...
one such classic question that we all ask is...where did Allah Himself come from? where will He go? how long has he been around? Forever? what is forever?.....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kamran-Khan: *
Gooosh!!! why on earth you think I said that I don't believe in God? ... read my replies again, with some care this time. All the questions asked are typical atheist questions..
[/QUOTE]
If all the questions are typical atheist questions and you know it .... then why you need any confirmation from Basic force....???
In third question for example, he has assumed the existence of God and that's why he has claimed that God's creations are only such that also can be imagined by the human beings. This question does not seem to be a typical atheist question. So that's why we really need to confirm whether basic force is atheist or not?
dutch_paki:
But here God's attributes i.e being all powerful and at the same time the absolute creator does not result in situation as suggested by you that omnipotence simply means of being above and beyond only His creation and not being above and beyond Himself also.
In your opening remarks you said that the question is not a paradox but a clear contradiction but by saying that the omnipotence does not include being above and beyond Himself ..... you actually are denying your previous position. In fact, now you are proving that question in fact is a paradox because of the fact that omnipotence does not include being above and beyond Himself.
The questions are in fact simple and are neither contradictory nor paradoxical if asked for an ordinary human beings because ordinary human beings can make such a heavy thing which they themself cannot lift.
In my opinion this is the matter of the determination of the extent of God's attributes. You tried well by saying that omnipotence does not include being above and beyond Himself but here you have been contradictory with your ownself because previously you said that question was clear contradiction and was not paradoxical. Now having taken the suggested position, you are saying that queation was paradoxical.
The God's attributes seem to be self contradictory and not paradoxical because questions are not self contradictory if put for ordinary human beings.
What's your opinion?
Mr. Haris Zubairy,
You said that this is the issue that we are forbid to think about it.
I do not think so. In my opinion we, by ourself have put many restrictions on our thinkings and actions. You should remember that the glorious period of greater islamic culture was charactrized by the hot discussions on such issues. I am talking about Muatazzilah movement of thought in islam. All the prominent muslim scholars that we still feel proud of them were the result of these kind of open discussions.
I am having a strong opinion that now we are in need to set our future line of action on rational footings. Unlike most fundamentallists I recognize the cause of Muslim's backwardness in these kind of self made restrictions. These kind of restrictions keep us from making progress in every important aspect of human life.
You rightly said that a person who was alive some 200 years ago could not able to even imagine those latest inventions that now we see around us as a matter of routine. Can you also accept that just like that person who was alive in some 200 years ago, another person who was alive some 1500 years ago also could not imagine those things which now we see around us as a matter of routine.
We are living in a whole different world. If we have to remain the slave of other nations then we should insist on the applicability of 1500 years old principles (those principles, no doubt, were best suited to that ancient world). But if we want to lead other nations then we will have to make new principles purely on rational grounds.
I think such questions are a non-issue when addressing the almightiness of God/Allah.
The paradox in the question is apparant: both a positive and a negative answer seems to undermine the almightiness. However, the problem is the restriction we as humans have when looking at this question.
You could compare it with a band, that you cut through and stick the end together with one end inverted. If you put an ant on such a band, what you will get is a seemingly endless band. However, we all will agree that such a band is NOT endless, it's only from the point of view from the ant that it is endless.
Similarly these questions from OUR point of view seems undermining towards the power of Allah, however from HIS point of view such tasks are not even worth it.
We can't apply restrictions to Allah, which are restriction to us
Eastern,
youre right, on the lines of ijtehad there definitely is the need to rethink and modernize things based on the ancient ideologies, because principles do not change, only human perception and applicabilities change. but parat from that there still are a lot of areas that normal humans can not go into and return safe. the sufis and the mystics from a few ceturies ago who did great services to Islam were a breed apart, they were diff from us in the sense that once they devotedtheir life and energies to discovering Allah and their self,they did not return to the world and its attractions. thats a prerequisite to attain 'that' bit of knowledge and connection with the Almighty i think, i would hope we could follow in that direction...
theres just so much confusion in life...
Re: Can God create…??
Yesterday, the Earth was flat. Today, a circle has no end.