that being said and for all practical reasons, sachydino also has a point. things are slowly but gradually getting out of control. first, these folks were not crack psychopaths with mental issues. they were normal people until they got radicalized by a hardcore religious ideology (Wahhabism promoted and nurtured by saudi arabia) as were many other terrorists before them who blew themselves in pakistan and elsewhere and those who killed 100s in paris few weeks ago...
There is no proof that he was "radicalized", his colleagues disagree with you.
so if we keep on repeating rhetoric that these terrorists are not from us and they dont represent islam, i am afraid we will never get to the root of the problem and we will keep on having these issues and at some point western societies' patience will run out. so choice is ours at this point.
Before their patience runs out we need to expose double standards of their governments when they bomb a country into stone age, giving powers to terrorists on foreign soil because it suits their agenda. We need to spread awareness in American people that it is the wars which are generating terrorists and not the other way around.
Let me say
I am not with Lal Masjid and the mulla Aziz
But cruelty done inside Lal Masjid by traitor Mush & his force created a hate wave '
Insaf naheen karo gay to Log apni samajh kay mutabiq insaf karain gay
Without evidence, there is just conjecture.
Why would they intentionally want to kill anyone inside the masjid?
There is no proof that he was "radicalized", his colleagues disagree with you.
Before their patience runs out we need to expose double standards of their governments when they bomb a country into stone age, giving powers to terrorists on foreign soil because it suits their agenda. We need to spread awareness in American people that it is the wars which are generating terrorists and not the other way around.
sarkar..no where i said that dont expose western double standards. Produce more intellectuals who can debate at an academic level, who can write articles, who can become prfessors in western universities and engage in healthy debate. Dr AAmir liaqat type scholars will not exactly help us. A
but how about owning this terrorism cancer as well... how about finally saying that these terrorists are indeed from us, the are indeed Muslims and that we need to root out radicalized wahabism promoted and nurtured by saudis..
and then how about actually doing something to root out this cancer. from egypt to saudi to libya to pakistan to afghanistan to malasyia, i see muslim govts being hijacked by fundamentalists. tell you what, even saudi regime does not like wahabi molvis but they dont courage a single word against them just like no one in pakistan can touch molana fzal ur rehman, hafiz saeed and molana aziz of lal masjid.
these terrorists are killing more muslims than westerners. so this is our war. that is all i am saying. thx
What is Muslims contributions in building the Western societies? When your countries of origin are seen as third world dumps and apocalyptic war zones because some idiots refused to step down, don't be surprised when you are seen as a silent threat to their civilization.
Other than showing the fact you are only able to settle in Western societies because you fear the danda of their rule of law, you have no serious profile to prove Muslims are enlightened, successful, progressive people with their own brand of civilisation. The buck doesn't stop at arresting a Mullah here and there, a problem goes a lot deeper.
but how about owning this terrorism cancer as well... how about finally saying that these terrorists are indeed from us, the are indeed Muslims and that we need to root out radicalized wahabism promoted and nurtured by saudis..
You can call me a conspiracy nut or whatever but I can't believe every act committed in western countries to be a work of these outfits. These outfits are "maindaks", to be fighting kaafirs invading a Muslim country. That ideology was unfortunately fueled by US and KSA in Afghanistan/Pakistan. It is now not possible to unwind it. Now extend that to Iraq and Libya, US has created yet another monster which is being funded by US and its puppet KSA. How are we as Pakistanis going to counter it?
It is wholly responsibility of US to own the problem of creating monsters in Muslim world, if they don't own then we need to show it to the world.
Last week I was with a taxi driver for a two hour drive in holland. Our discussion turned towards California incident n he was saying why in most of such cases they read Koran n saying on the name of Allah. Though I tried to describe him as much as possible but how to counter understanding of many ppl in the west which is increasing day by day that there is a group of muslim who believe islam version 1 while others believe in islam version 2. Those believe in version 1 are dangerous while other group is not dangerous but they are prone to move to version 1. Hence it is safe to keep both away.
You can call me a conspiracy nut or whatever but I can't believe every act committed in western countries to be a work of these outfits. These outfits are "maindaks", to be fighting kaafirs invading a Muslim country. That ideology was unfortunately fueled by US and KSA in Afghanistan/Pakistan. It is now not possible to unwind it. Now extend that to Iraq and Libya, US has created yet another monster which is being funded by US and its puppet KSA. How are we as Pakistanis going to counter it?
It is wholly responsibility of US to own the problem of creating monsters in Muslim world, if they don't own then we need to show it to the world.
I can agree to some extent. But who are/were being used? Zia-ul-Haq e.g. should have gone to barracks after 90 days as he promised. But no he used Pakistan as his whore and f the country day in and day out. Never cared for future generations of his illicit acts. Weren't media and bikau politicians of that time supporting him? He was the one who developed the hatred among most Pakis by trumpeting so called Islami or Sharie nizam with brain child of Jamat-e-Islami, supporting and nurturing all kinds of criminals and terrorists. Mush followed the same mantra, though he was double cross SOB. Sub se pehlay Pakistan, my foot.
^ I know you hate Zia, I don't like him either, but bottom line again there was funding pouring in from KSA and USA as well as "threat" of USSR taking over Pakistan. But I can guarantee you whoever the ruler was he would've done same thing, follow the instructions.
^ I know you hate Zia, I don't like him either, but bottom line again there was funding pouring in from KSA and USA as well as "threat" of USSR taking over Pakistan. But I can guarantee you whoever the ruler was he would've done same thing, follow the instructions.
Why just blame those who are funding? Why not blame people amongst your OWN who took that money and opened their religious institutions to corruption back in the 70's, taking madrassas as being simply SCHOOLS and turning them into Jihadi-training sites? I don't think that's why Aisha (R) started the first Madrassah in her home historically. She wasn't training fighters. She was educating people and they remained STUDENTS. She didn't train them how to physically fight and attack people.
So why have we given this function to our madrassas? I say "we" because we need to accept responsibility that slowly over the decades extremism was taking it's roots in our own society. Yes, people were pouring money into this ,but there were people accepting this money too.
I wonder how much ($$) the cleric of the Lal masjid gets for putting these extremist ideas into peoples' heads? He is very protected, no one can touch the guy.
There is money going into that, but someone is accepting the dollar bills.
Last week I was with a taxi driver for a two hour drive in holland. Our discussion turned towards California incident n he was saying why in most of such cases they read Koran n saying on the name of Allah. Though I tried to describe him as much as possible but how to counter understanding of many ppl in the west which is increasing day by day that there is a group of muslim who believe islam version 1 while others believe in islam version 2. Those believe in version 1 are dangerous while other group is not dangerous but they are prone to move to version 1. Hence it is safe to keep both away.
So they are understanding the Muslims better than the Muslims themselves.
Why just blame those who are funding? Why not blame people amongst your OWN who took that money and opened their religious institutions to corruption back in the 70's, taking madrassas as being simply SCHOOLS and turning them into Jihadi-training sites? I don't think that's why Aisha (R) started the first Madrassah in her home historically. She wasn't training fighters. She was educating people and they remained STUDENTS. She didn't train them how to physically fight and attack people.
So why have we given this function to our madrassas? I say "we" because we need to accept responsibility that slowly over the decades extremism was taking it's roots in our own society. Yes, people were pouring money into this ,but there were people accepting this money too.
I wonder how much ($$) the cleric of the Lal masjid gets for putting these extremist ideas into peoples' heads? He is very protected, no one can touch the guy.
There is money going into that, but someone is accepting the dollar bills.
We are prolonging the war in Pakistan by allowing idiotic madarsas and farhat hashmi types to pollute our young minds. I don't know why the establishment and politicians don't see that.
But while such a ban is unlikely to be implemented in a country founded by immigrants, the cheers that followed his announcement at a South Carolina rally are telling.
“I think that we should definitely disallow any Muslims from coming in. Any of them,” supporter Charlie Marzka, 75, told CNN. “The reason is simple: We can’t identify what their attitude is.”
Indeed, the truth about Muslims in America is perhaps surprising – but not in the way Trump and his supporters might think.
A look at polls and studies conducted in the last few years shows that Muslims have been crucial in helping law enforcement find terror suspects in the United States. Manyhave served in the military protecting the country against terrorists. And in many ways, they’re a lot like other everyday Americans.
Here’s the reality of Muslims in America – and how it smashes stereotypes:
They are a minuscule portion of the U.S. populationIt’s difficult to come by hard numbers because the U.S. Census doesn’t collect religious data. But the fear of Muslims taking over and imposing Sharia law is unfounded. By some estimates, Muslims make up less than 1% of the U.S. adult population. By 2050, their numbers will grow – to 2.1%. Of all the Muslims in America, 63% are exactly the kind Trump wants banned – immigrants.
They’re better educated than most AmericansU.S. Muslims have thesecond-highest level of education among major religious groups in the country; Jews have the highest. And a greater proportion of them have college degrees than the general U.S. population.
They have more gender equalityWhile in many parts of the Muslim world, women are confined to second-class status, that’s not the case among American Muslims. Virtually all of them, 90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. American Muslim women hold more college or postgraduate degrees than Muslim men. And they are more likely to work in professional fields than women from most other U.S. religious groups.
They’ve been here since the birth of the nation …Scholars estimate about a quarter to a third of the Africans brought to the United States as slaves were Muslims. Most were then forced to convert to Christianity.
… and they’re not just clustered in big citiesAmerican Muslims live in cities big and small all across the United States. The first mosque built in America was in, of all places, Ross, North Dakota, back in 1929.
They’re as religious as Christians …The general perception of Muslims has one thing right: Most Muslims are very religious. About half say they attend the weekly Friday prayers. But that makes them similar to Christians: About 70% of Christians say religion is important in their lives, and about 45% go to a weekly service.
… but they’re not as dogmatic as they are portrayedMuch has been made about fundamentalist Muslims and their strict interpretation of the Quran. But most American Muslims are different. A Pew religious landscape survey found that 57% of American Muslims say there is more than one way to interpret Islam’s teachings. A similar number say many different religions can lead to eternal life.
There have been Muslims involved in terrorism …From September 11, 2001, until the end of 2014, 109 Muslim-Americans plotted against targets in the United States. And terrorism by Muslim-Americans killed 50 in the same time period. Contrast that with the deaths from other mass shootings just last year: 136 – more than twice as many as all the deaths from 13 years of Muslim-American terrorism.
… but they’ve also spoken out against itAfter every terrorist attack at home and abroad, the refrain rises, “Where is the Muslim condemnation?” American Muslims have spoken out – and done much more. A Duke University study found more terrorism suspects and perpetrators were brought to the attention of law enforcement by members of the Muslim-American community than were discovered through U.S. government investigations. And a Pew survey found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims say their religious leaders aren’t speaking out enough against Islamic extremism.
Agar yeh, baqaul aap kay aur kai aur logone kay, agar yeh so called traitor/dictator Pakistani politics main na hotay to yeh PPP or doosrone kee siyasat kis pay chaltee? Is soorat main to kuch hota hee nahin criticism kay liyaay.
^ I know you hate Zia, I don't like him either, but bottom line again there was funding pouring in from KSA and USA as well as "threat" of USSR taking over Pakistan. But I can guarantee you whoever the ruler was he would've done same thing, follow the instructions.
Why he was accepting the funding?? Wasn't he supposed to go back to barracks after 90 days?? But no he wanted to be first Amir-ul-mominin to extend his illicit rule by getting funding from these countries. Otherwise he wouldn't have survived a single day. This lanteer kirdaar of Pakistan changed the face of Pakistan by creating all kinds of jihadis and bomb exploders. This illegitimate leader from Punjab really destroyed the country. Don't blame any one else outside of the country.
