Just2much..I was referring to Cubans who live in Cuba. I know the Cuban exiles (a lot of them in NYC too) who do feel superior to Haitians, etc. But my comment was on institutionalized racism. I meant to say that in communist lands, institutionalized racism does not exist. In other words, they treat all citizens badly, regardless of color.
ak47: The discussion is focusing on the present status of racism around the world. If the best you can come up with is the tired old mantra of what we did to the native American Indians and slavery, then we are doing pretty good. With blacks, hispanics, asians and other minorities holding significant positions of power and influence in all areas of government, business, military, judiciary, education, police, etc., the US is a pretty darn good model of how to root out instituionalized racism in a country.
NYA: To an extent, I agree with your characterization of Communist countries treating all its subjects poorly. However, this does not remove indices of institutionalized racism. The communist Soviet Union was certainly racist when it purged 20+ million from its ranks. I suppose if you kill everyone who does not look, act and believe as you do, you might be said to have established a non-racist country because there is no one left to discriminate against. How many of Japanese ancestry (not to mention Jews, Christians and Muslims) could rise to become officials in the government of Communist China? How many of Haitian, Dominican, or Puerto Rican ancestry are at the power levels in Cuba? What are the immigration policies of these communist countries when it comes to welcoming as foreign residents or citizens those of ethnicities, colors and beliefs that are not compatible with the ruling majority?
Myvoice. I totally agree with what you wrote, and I strongly believe that the US has done more than any other country (considering its diversity) to institutionally get rid of racism. The case with communists countries falls under a different theme altogether. However, I agree with you.
I hope that the 9th circuit decision is upheld, and the Pledge is taken out of public instuttions.
One nation Under no one! We are all equal.
NYA: I know that discrimination based upon race and religion are very similar and generally can fall within a broad definition of racism. As a believer in God but not being an adherent to any particular organized religion, my take on the "under God" passage in the Pledge is that "God" is non-denominational and reciters of the pledge can comfortably substitute their own particular vision of God in the phrase. Thus, "God" may mean Allah to some, Jesus to others, an apple tree to others, etc. Thus, it is not discriminatory between religions. If anything, it is only discriminatory to those who have no belief in God. Because we are a tolerant society, I don't think anyone should be FORCED to say the pledge with or without the words "under God" in it. Yet, I can see no harm in permitting the VOLUNTARY recitation of the Pledge in schools, Congress, the Supreme Court, or any other public forum. To ban its recitation by those who wish to do it is also intolerant. I just don't see how an atheist should be reasonably offended if others wish to publicly avow their belief that ours is a nation under God anymore than a believer should be offended when an atheist publicly expresses his belief that there is no God for our nation to be under. I just don't see this as an issue that involves racism in any way or invokes the prohibition on government establishing a religion. I see it much more as an issue of Free Speech which is why the issue of VOLUNTARINESS is so important.
Myvoice, if Under God means anyone’s God, then One Nation can also mean many Nations, or divisions. It is not a matter of free speech (in my opinion), but a matter of separation of God from Institutions of Public interests. To me as an immigrant to this country, religious discrimination is synonymous with racism.
I guess, it was not an appropriate thing to discuss (the ruling on the pledge) in this thread. May be we can open a separate one, because I am really interested.
U.K is a racist country, no doubt. Been there for only one time and have seen brits making jokes of Asians, especially Pakistani, Indian and Bengalis.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif
TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT AT ME
Gee. You heard a few Brits making racist jokes and all of a sudden it is a racist country.
I've read a few posts in GupShup that are clearly racist and hate filled. Should I conclude that GupShup is a racist, hate-mongering web site?
Isn't everyone racist to some extent?
As far as racist countries go... like many of you Guppies here, i was born in and lived most of my life in a Muslim Arab country. Bangladeshis, Phillipinos, Sri Lankans, Indians, and Pakistanis have the distinction of being relegated at the bottom of the heap; based upon my personal experiences which I know can be wrong, the darker one's skin colour, the more racism you experience at the hands of some (but not all) Muslim Arabs. If you happen to be a Pakistani individual working in the UAE as a construction worker, forget about rights/tolerance/justice - generally speaking, you are treated worse than scum. The majority of Phillipinos who reside in Arab countries and work as domestic maids/servants, experience racism and abuse on a daily scale - not just from Arabs but from other ethnicities as well.
Certainly I am not stating ALL Arabs or Muslims behave this way. Thankfully not. IMHO just believe that we are ALL racist to some extent...some more than others but it is prevalent everywhere sadly.
So, maybe Arabs have a feeling of superiority over others because they were chosen by Allah? This, in addition to any cultural bias already present, with the added stratification of society by extreme wealth provides this sad reality.
Everyone is a little racist... I admit...
I went to England and saw how racist most of the goras were... I went to the US, although the general peoeple are nice, there are some red necks in some rare parts of the country, which are off limits for you if youre not white... I went to Saudi, only to find that the Arabs think all Pakistanis were meant to clean their shows...
Racism also exists in Pakistan, and our attitude towards the Afghani refugees can be an example...
Tomasso, I think you have hit the nail on the head.
So, maybe Arabs have a feeling of superiority over others because they were chosen by Allah?
i agree, perhaps some Arabs feel this way, although then obviously those individuals are negating the words of Prophet Muhammad (an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action).
This, in addition to any cultural bias already present, with the added stratification of society by extreme wealth provides this sad reality.
What a great statement you have quoted Nadia… I personally believe the best thing about Islam that really attracts non-Muslims is the equality that it offers… However, its sad that some Muslims, particularly those living in the Arab countries think they are superior to others…
I have heard that Arabs in other countries, apart from Saudi are very nice and hospitable to Pakistanis, can someone confirm this from their experiences with them?
I have heard that Arabs in other countries, apart from Saudi are very nice and hospitable to Pakistanis, can someone confirm this from their experiences with them?
Spock, if you are asking whether, generally speaking, Arabs in Arab countries are hospitable towards Pakistanis, then in my opinion the answer is no. Generally speaking, based upon my experiences, I have found that Arab-Pakistani relationships in non-Arab countries are usually relatively much better - in Canada, for eg. This MIGHT be due to the reason that in these countries, Arabs perceive of themselves as in the same boat as other immigrants - the wealth barriers are somewhat broken down, the sense of isolation is palpable and immigrants tend to gravitate towards other immigrants. In a new society with a different culture and language, that old sense of superiority is not as apparent when an Arab and a Pakistani are facing the same problems.
This is all just according to me of course
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
so I can be completely wrong.
They died in silence for humanity had closed its ears to their cry ~ Khalil Gibran
[quote]
Originally posted by Spock:
**Everyone is a little racist... I admit...
I went to England and saw how racist most of the goras were... I went to the US, although the general peoeple are nice, there are some red necks in some rare parts of the country, which are off limits for you if youre not white... I went to Saudi, only to find that the Arabs think all Pakistanis were meant to clean their shows...
Racism also exists in Pakistan, and our attitude towards the Afghani refugees can be an example...**
[/quote]
Spock,
Name one place in America that you cannot go if you are not white. Being not white and having traveled in every state I have never at anytime been denied or even asked about my race. The country in itself has never treated me different because of my race. People have, but the racist attatudes are far less here than any other country I have spent time in.
Ex-Army...
I never said the US was as racist as the UK... Infact Ive visited the US and the ppl are very nice, especially if you goto the suberbs and all... However, I have heard from friends there are still some places, like southern West Virginia, where its unadvisable for ppl to go especially if they are not white... Although some people might get offended, they are referred to as 'rednecks'... However, these types of places are very rare, and on the average we tourists we even get to see such places... But the fact still remains, racism is everywhere, including the America... Even the American history speaks. It may not be as bad as countries in Europe and the Arab countries, but its still there...
No country is perfect. Racism exists everywhere. However Britain treats its minorities much better than other countries.
For example in Pak, peoples such as Sindhis, Balochis are treated much worse than any minority in Pak.
This thread is about britain is racist as said by the head of crown prosecution.
This man is in charge of criminal law if he says britain is racist then he should know better all of us because he got the information for whole country and experience more than some extremist americans who don;t even live in britain.
And i have been to both the states and UK and they definetly racist. NYqadiani and myvoice can keep slappping each others backs but can't hide the reality racism is live and kicking at all levels.
You trying to tell me those latinos and black people where complaing for nothing they was lying thats rubbish i saw they had the worst housing the worst neighbourhoods where polictician don;t even bother to go there. Don't give me this rubbish about there is black in high position or gloria estefan is doing it so that means it all good 1 or 2 token gestures is just that token gestures.
So instead of blaming other countries about they got racism too why don't you actually feel ashamed for a change that you have racism and do something about it.
You seem to be ignoring teh fact that everyone has said racsim exists in US/UK, but generally minorities are treated better than in other countries.
For example, in US, after 9/11, even with all the attacks, hundreds of Muslims weren't burnt alive like in India.
Now imagine if Yanks did 9/11 in Pak, or elsewhere, how do you think the average Pakistani man on the street would react?
Mob justice would ensue.
Real deal
this thread is about britain not pakistan if you want to create post Pakistan is racist says prosecutor then go ahead.
And i disagree the racism is west is much worse because i have'nt seen in pakistan groups getting into political power on basis of racism which you cannot say in europe especially recently it is common trend to elect racist politicians there.
Originally posted by ak47:
**
this thread is about britain not pakistan if you want to create post Pakistan is racist says prosecutor then go ahead.**
No it is releveant.You can't lecture others and ignore our/your own problems. Simple principle. Otherwise it is fair to say we are hypocrites.
And i disagree the racism is west is much worse because i have'nt seen in pakistan groups getting into political power on basis of racism which you cannot say in europe especially recently it is common trend to elect racist politicians there.
No offence, but it seems you dont know how Pak is. It is VERY racially divided with deadly violence common. Enough to make those riots in England look like harmless child's play. No exxageration.