Bosnia Armies Unite!

An historic agreement on defence reform has been reached by Bosnia’s Serbs, Croats and Muslims.

For the first time, representatives from all three ethnic groups have agreed to set up a state defence ministry and unified military command.

Soldiers will serve under the same flag
There had been deep divisions among the country’s armed forces since the end of the Bosnian war eight years ago.

Whilst these armies will remain in name, their powers will be greatly reduced, and - crucially - they will now be answerable to parliament and presidency.

“I think it sends a great message… that there is a commitment, a desire to move forward and get beyond the very destructive and terrible times that were experienced here during the war,” General Ward said

The draft laws still have to be approved by the Bosnian parliaments, but many now believe that the reforms, when confirmed, will lead Bosnia on the path to eventual membership of Nato - a significant step for a country so recently ripped apart by ethnic conflict.

Bosnia Armies Unite!

When will they learn, a muslim is never stung from the same place twice (Bukhari)

After the masscres and genocide committed upon the muslim masses in bosnia this is truly unbelivable move. However i am not so sure how the people on the ground in bosnia feel about this, it seems it is more like a pressure from outside on the politicians in bosnia making them do this.

Re: Bosnia Armies Unite!

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*Originally posted by ak47: *
An historic agreement on defence reform has been reached by Bosnia's Serbs, Croats and Muslims.

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Does the word agreement seem understandable to you? The bosnians are ready to move on, and cannot remain hostile towards the Serbs forever, because of the hostilites of the Serbs. You may want the Bosnions to be always at war with the Serbs for what the Serbs did to them 8 years ago, but the people of Bosnia do not. Its about time they usher an era of peace and glory. Now some people will have a problem with that, its natural.

Re: Re: Bosnia Armies Unite!

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*Originally posted by Spock: *

Does the word agreement seem understandable to you? The bosnians are ready to move on, and cannot remain hostile towards the Serbs forever, because of the hostilites of the Serbs. You may want the Bosnions to be always at war with the Serbs for what the Serbs did to them 8 years ago, but the people of Bosnia do not. Its about time they usher an era of peace and glory. Now some people will have a problem with that, its natural.
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Its nice to see yet again your extreme views of putting words in other peoples mouths and straying away from the point i was making yet again.

I ended with a hadith (the collection of the traditions and sayings of Muhammad saw) a muslim is never stung from the same place twice (Bukhari)

You can never be stung in the same place twice, after being raped and massacred in the hundreds of thousands, and being abandoned by there so called European brothers. The muslims of bosnia should not forget what happened to them and muslims anywhere are seeing this happen time and time again.

You cannot trust the enemies of islam no matter what! if you are ready to shake the hand of the rapists and killers of your people and let bygones be bygones then you really are something!

What guarntees are there that this is not going to happen again they had similar agreement previously in the ethnically diverse Yugoslavia and we all know what happened to that!

Re: Re: Re: Bosnia Armies Unite!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
You cannot trust the enemies of islam no matter what! if you are ready to shake the hand of the rapists and killers of your people and let bygones be bygones then you really are something!

What guarntees are there that this is not going to happen again they had similar agreement previously in the ethnically diverse Yugoslavia and we all know what happened to that!
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According to you, they will not be stung twice, so what seems to be the problem? We should be relieved, finally there is peace and cooperation between the two.

If you actually read my post for a change

You will actuallay notice the hadith i posted and the translation of the hadith is the muslim is sharp and never stung in the same place twice.

i.e the muslim should not fall for same trap, but we see in history the muslim falls into same trap again and again!

I let you work out the rest!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
If you actually read my post for a change

You will actuallay notice the hadith i posted and the translation of the hadith is the muslim is sharp and never stung in the same place twice.

i.e the muslim should not fall for same trap, but we see in history the muslim falls into same trap again and again!

I let you work out the rest!
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So what do you suggest then? They remain enemies rather than friends? That will satisfy your wishes right?

Lets see, Serbs ethnically cleanse Muslims from their lands; The Serb ring leaders are free and have not been captured yet; A joke of a tribunal is happening in the Hague where the Europeans are raping the Muslims for a second time; Back in Bosnia the Serbs are enjoying their new captured lands and now with this decision can be rest assured that they will not be held responsible for the genocide. Muslims are rewarded with Christian Europe justice.

Moral of the story, Muslims can not trust the Christian Europe for anything. Historically they are and will remain the greatest enemies of Islam.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
Lets see, Serbs ethnically cleanse Muslims from their lands; The Serb ring leaders are free and have not been captured yet; A joke of a tribunal is happening in the Hague where the Europeans are raping the Muslims for a second time; Back in Bosnia the Serbs are enjoying their new captured lands and now with this decision can be rest assured that they will not be held responsible for the genocide. Muslims are rewarded with Christian Europe justice.

Moral of the story, Muslims can not trust the Christian Europe for anything. Historically they are and will remain the greatest enemies of Islam.
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you can see it i can see question is now can spock see it!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

you can see it i can see question is now can spock see it!
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The fact is that you want to send muslims back to the 7th century and your motives are no different from osama, and quite frankly, they are very violent. There are those that stand to loose from a cooperation that would exist if the muslim world lives peacefully with the rest of the world, and you are one of them. One day you say Christians and all other non-Muslims are enemies of Islam, the next day you say America is the enemy of Islam. What are you suggesting, we wipe out every living non-muslim?

P.S. Great Move by the Bosnians, apparently they are not as narrow minded as some other Muslims.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *

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The fact is that you want to send muslims back to the 7th century and your motives are no different from osama, and quite frankly, they are very violent.
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When have I ever said that I want Muslims to go back to the 7th century. If you read my posts you will see that I want Muslims to educate themselves and surpass the west in technical fields; I want the Muslims to unite and protect themselves from the in-dignity imposed on them by the west. I want the Muslims to implement the laws and freedom mentioned in the Quran. What's wrong with that?

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There are those that stand to loose from a cooperation that would exist if the muslim world lives peacefully with the rest of the world, and you are one of them.
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Muslims have lived and will continue to live in peace with their non-Muslim neighbors as long as they are respected. Don't forget Islamic history. Those running around calling Islam barbaric should go and read their western history books. The period between 700 A.D. and 1500 A.D. does not exist in the minds of Europeans. As if the world never existed in that time period. Well, let me tell you. It was a great time in history. And if the Muslims were such barbarians then how come sizeable Christian and Jewish communities still exist till this day in the Islamic world. After 800 years of Islamic rule in India, Muslims are still the minority. After 600 years of Islamic Spain, Muslims don't even exist there. Why didn't the Muslims just wipe out Christians and Hindus from Spain and India?

Co-operation exists when both parties trust and respect one another. I ask you, does Europe consider Islam and Muslims as equals and do they respect us? Listen to their leaders about letting Turkey join the E.U. I only see the same feelings they had during their crusader and colonial periods.

Yes, Muslim countries have great problems. We are being run by ruthless dictators and kings. Extremists are using our religion to further divide us and giving wrong impression of Islam to the rest of the world. Muslim countries are generally un-educated and hence act as such. Still, this does not give the west the right to treat Muslims like animals.

We are trying to change ourselves, but this will take time. In the meantime, we will continue to take note of how the great western powers treated us during this time.

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One day you say Christians and all other non-Muslims are enemies of Islam, the next day you say America is the enemy of Islam. What are you suggesting, we wipe out every living non-muslim?
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I don't say it but your beloved Chritians in Euorpe and American's say it. First colonialism, now war on terror and invasion of Iraq. When will you realize it, when the Stars and Stripes is flying in Mecca and Medina?

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P.S. Great Move by the Bosnians, apparently they are not as narrow minded as some other Muslims.
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Bosnians are not narrow minded. They were raped and killed in a war by the Serbs; Muslim nations deserted them by not helping them; Europe told them to accept their Serb masters and choose whether to live or die.

Bosnians have chosen to live like a jackal for 100 years than like a lion for 1 day.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *

When have I ever said that I want Muslims to go back to the 7th century.

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and when did i accuse u sir?

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Muslims have lived and will continue to live in peace with their non-Muslim neighbors as long as they are respected.

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So signing cooperative treaties for mutual defence means getting disrespected? Tell me, how are the bosnians disrespected by this?

Rest of your post is beyond the scope of this topic. We are not discussing barbarians or islamic history here.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
Lets see, Serbs ethnically cleanse Muslims from their lands; The Serb ring leaders are free and have not been captured yet; A joke of a tribunal is happening in the Hague where the Europeans are raping the Muslims for a second time; Back in Bosnia the Serbs are enjoying their new captured lands and now with this decision can be rest assured that they will not be held responsible for the genocide. Muslims are rewarded with Christian Europe justice.

Moral of the story, Muslims can not trust the Christian Europe for anything. Historically they are and will remain the greatest enemies of Islam.
[/QUOTE]

well i may not agree entlirely with your statment but there is indeed a great deal of injustice when we recall what happened to muslims in bosnia
lord irvin and john major were negotiating and smiling and shaking hands with mr slobodan milosovic the same man who is in hague tribunal today. hague tribunal is nothing but a coverup for the slughter that was carried out there.
the western media is clever to play with words just as today they are calling it war against terrorism likewise they were calling it war in bosnia? war ? what kind of war was it? a regular serb army with all its tanks and rockets against a civilian muslim popuation? you call it a war?
and would you belive it there was a arms embargo on muslims?
i think mr john major and lord irvin must also be arrested for war crimes
the american mothers were not ready to send thier sons to bosnia they were not ready to take american casualties why? because the victims were muslims. its such historical injustice that we are facing the muslim back lash against west

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*Originally posted by Spock: *
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and when did i accuse u sir?
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My mistake. I realize you were responding to somebody else's post?

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So signing cooperative treaties for mutual defence means getting disrespected? Tell me, how are the bosnians disrespected by this?
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Yes, generally speaking, signing mutual defence treaties are beneficial to both sides. But, in this case, I believe the Bosnians are being dis-respected. It's a slap on their face. It is more like a surrender. Like another poster mentioned, civilian Bosnians were slaughtered by a Serb mechanized army and para-military police force. The ring leaders of this massacre are treated as heroes by the Serbs. They have never apologized for their deeds. Never given back any land they ethnically cleansed. So, I ask you. What do the Bosnians get out of this?

Bosnians still have no weapons to defend themselves. The NATO peace keepers can leave anytime and what will the Bosnians do? Will the Serbs honor any deals they are making today. Tell me, are the Serbs making these deals because they are sorry for the past or because they want favors from the EU?

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Rest of your post is beyond the scope of this topic. We are not discussing barbarians or islamic history here.
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I mentioned for historic reference. Everything happens for a reason. History is repeat with patterns. What will happen tomorrow is because of what is going on today. Don't forget that. In-justices done today will lead to conflicts in the future.