blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt


This hadith isn’t authentic, but fabricated. (Silsila ad-daeefa 5495). These words are part of bigger narration. Ibn Kathir gave it in his “Bidaya wa nihaya” (2/239) and said regarding it: In it oddity and unacceptable (point) (gharabat wa nakarat). Abu Hatim said this hadith is false (batil) (see “Ilalul hadith” by ibn Abu Hatim 4/72). This hadith along with chain present in “Dalail” (1/92/#77, shamela) by Beyhaki. Starting from Yaqub ibn Shayba al-Fasawe it runs:
حدثني يحيى بن عبد الحميد ، قال : حدثنا قيس ، عن الأعمش ، عن عباية بن ربعي ، عن ابن عباس

Narrated to me Yahya ibn Abdulhamid, said: narrated to us Qays from al-Amash from Abayat ibn Rabia from ibn Abbas.
Everyone except al-Amash discredited. Ibn Rabia was from qulatu shia. (“Mizanul itidal” 2/387). Al-Amash himself mudalis, and again narrated in anana form. Qays, that’s ibn Rabia. Daraqutni and Yahya said he’s weak. Nasai said he’s abandoned. He was shia with bad memory and rejected narrations in pocket. (“Mizanul itidal” 3/393). Yahya ibn Abdulhamid al-Hamani was accused in lie. (“Mizanul itidal” 4/392)

[quote]
Perfect purification includes every aspect and not just tashri purification as you claim. If it was ordained that they simply adhere to the commandments of Allah then there was no special need to include Fatima, Ali in Ahle Bayt since the prophet could have simply ordered them to be strict adherents of Islam. The inclusion of them under the cloak of Muhammad (s) and then declaring that they are the Ahle Bayt meant that were being bestowed special favor from Allah and were made pure, completely.
[/QUOTE]
I didnt get your question... wives of prophet(Saw) were given certain commands which were themselves means of purification... and performing that they would have received purification as Allah wished...

Regarding Ahle kisa then as i said earlier prophet(Saw) wanted that even they be included in the wish of Allah.. So HE MADE DUA FOR THEM UNDER KISA.........

And can u answer me that why were wives prophet(Saw) in that verses 33:32-33, were given certain special commands..like staying in their houses.. And why were they specifically commanded to offer prayer, give zakat, obey prophet(these are all means of purification mind you) when all these commands were already given to believers in general..

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

there is no sahih al-tirmidhi

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

firstly, if you read quran you will find that where ever quran mentions Ahlebayt/Ahl it is refering to the wife, refer this:

Secondly , though Ahlebayt means all the members of the family, but even few members of a larger family can also be addressed as Ahlebayt..

for example: if there are 10 members in your AHlebayt, but you give a gift to 4 of those members.. you can make a statement that i gave gift to my ahlebayt, but this doesnt neccessarily mean that all the members of Ahlebayt got that gift. This is common in arabic language.

Let me give you examples from classical arabic literature:

Sahi bukhari (Volume 6 hadith 274)…“So Allah’s Apostle got up (and addressed) the people an asked for somebody who would take revenge on ‘Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul then. Allah’s Apostle, while on the pulpit, said, “O Muslims! Who will help me against a man who has hurt me by slandering my family**(ahli bayti)**? By Allah, I know nothing except good about my family, and people have blamed a man of whom I know nothing except good, and he never used to visit my family except with me,”…

comment: we know that prophet(Saw) was talking about hz ayesha(ra) on whom the hypocrites made accusations.. So we see that prophet(Saw) just mentioned one wife as Ahlebayt.

Another example: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 316 : Narrated Anas: A banquet of bread and meat was held on the occasion of the marriage of the Prophet to Zainab bint Jahsh. I was sent to invite the people (to the banquet), and so the people started coming (in groups). They would eat and then leave. Another batch would come, eat and leave. So I kept on inviting the people till I found nobody to invite.
Then I said, “O Allah’s Prophet! I do not find anybody to invite.”
He (the Prophet) said, “Carry away the remaining food.” Then a batch of three persons stayed in the house chatting. The Prophet left and went towards the dwelling place of Aisha and said, “Peace and Allah’s Mercy be on you(KUM), Ya Ahlel Bayt (O the people of the house)!”
She replied, “Peace and the mercy of Allah be on you too. How did you find your wife? May Allah bless you.”
Then he went to the dwelling places of all his other wives and said to them the same as he said to Aisha and they said to him the same as Aisha had said to him.

comment: you see prophet(Saw) mentioning one wife as Ahlebayt..

And there are many other examples if you want..

So we see that since the context of 33:33 is that the verse before and after were being addressed to wives of prophet(Saw) we find that the ones addressed there with the word Ahlebayt were wives of prophet(Saw).

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

what exactly are purified ?
do they not recieve sadqah ? or are they infallible

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

firstly i agree with u that 12ers try hard to prove that ahlebait are 5 and later on 14
But I disagree that there is a neat division between the sunni and "shia" positions on ahlebait.Historically banu muttalib have been refered to as Ahlebait of the Prophet and wives are given a special favor by their inclusion however they are not exempt from zakat ( as hadith of zayd b arqam RA suggests)

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

sadaqa is haram for them.

No they arent infallible.. only the impurities that are present in them are removed.. if they follow the means of purification(i.e the commands Allah gave to them).. But this doesnt means they become infallible.

BEcause we know from quran that sins of people are removed.. but that doesnt mean that cant commit sin later… similarly purification does take place till the commands given by Allah are followed, but if the commands are not followed then the purification doesnt takes place.. again they will have to start following those commands inorder to receive purification:

also refer this:

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

what a fine way to degrade zayd b arqam RA the companion, who took part in 17 expeditions and whose suspicisons about hypocrites were dismissed even by the Prophet PBUH intially but later confirmed by GOD in revelation
Position is clear, wives are part of ahlebait but primarily the ahlebait is the subclan of the Prophet as he clearly mentions

bottomline is that its hard for the 12ers and some sunnis to swallow today that certain humans ( like ali & fatima incase of 12ers and aisha incase of sunnis) were not granted a special distinctive position.

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt


what a fine way to degrage the mother of believers.. whose defence was dont in quran, whose virtues are countless... who used to be the teacher of many companions.. etc and whose narrations are taken to prove that ahle kisa are ahlebayt...

She said this but still see how pathetic people are to reject this narration from her: Here is that narration from Musannaf ibn abi shaybah (chapter Laa tahillu al-sadqa ala bani hashim)
ابن أبي مليكة أن خالد بن سعيد بعث إلى عائشة ببقرة من الصدقة فردتها وقالت إنا آل محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم لا تحل لنا الصدقة
Narrated with sahi sanad From Ibn Abu Malika [narrated] that: Khaled Ibn Saeed sent a cow from the Sadaqah to Aisha, so she sent it back and said: We are the Aal (the family) of Muhammad(saw) the sadaqah is not permissible for us.

And mind you we believe that companions can make mistakes, they were not infallible.. So yes hz zaid(ra) made a mistake giving his view but how on earth does this degrade the status of hz zaid(ra)... the claim is really sick..

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

thanks we have no dispute regarding the bold part

so being ahlebait is as much a distinction for Hussain b Harith RA as it is for Ali b Abi Talib KW, similarly Maimoona and Aisha have the same distinction as wives and part of ahlebait

so other families of the Prophet nephews uncles cannot get this purification if they followed the commands of God ?

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

Ummel Momineen Aisha could be mistaken too esp about taking the sadqah part? she has been wrong and corrected before by God in Quran and Prophet in hadith
Afterall wasnt Fatima wrong in her judgement ?
I would rather take the words of an old companion whose word is defended in the Quran ! and who is not reprimamded in the Quran

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

wellwisher

The Word "Ahle Bayt" has only been used twice (to the best of my knowledge) in Quran. In one instance it was used to address the Ahle Bayt (household) of Ibrahim (s) **after **his wife was giving the glad news of being the mother of two prophets. When only the wife is mentioned the word "ahli" is used..correct? In the case of 33:32 the ayat beings with "ye wives of prophet" not with "ye Ahle Bayt". Even if we go by your interpretation of the Ahle Bayt here, the daughter cannot have been excluded from the verse since Fatima was member of the household or wasnt she? Is there any instance in Quran where a son/daughter was excluded from the household/ahle bayt when it mentioned?

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: *"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)." *

Now this narration from Muslim reported from Aisha reveals that the Prophet recited the verse when the five were under the mantle. Nowhere do we find the words that Prophet made a DUA to Allah to include them in the Ahle Bayt nor does he say that Fatima also is part of the Ahle Bayt. He unequivocally declares that they are the Ahle Bayt.

This debate is not ending so its no use continuing it further on from me. The entire perspective is different.

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

Peace Geist

I'm not sure I understand what it is you are asking the Qur'an itself is clear on the instruction ...

Hz Fatimah (AS) has always been included in the Family, but the verse 33:33 does not refer to her.

33:32 O Consorts (wives) of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.

33:33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Apostle. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

Here the Qur'an is addressing the wives (RA) as seen in the beginning of verse 32. When it calls them "ye members of the Family" in verse 33. The Qur'an is not making a statement that ONLY the wives make up the Family, but it is calling them PART of the Family as can be seen clearly.

I have said this before ... in different contexts The Family means different things. In general wives are included, but when it comes to those who can't take zakat then the wives are not included.

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt


The commands mentioned in 33:33 were for wives.. not for other Ahlebayt members..

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt


well if you read quran you will find that even prophet(Saw) made a wrong decision..

Anyways your comparision is pathetic. because hz zaid(ra) himself says in the narration that he had forgotten certain things due to old age..:I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him)... Secondly hz ayesha(ra)'s verdict will be given preference because, she used to live along with prophet(Saw) so she experienced the shariah rulings and teachings better than other companions..

Secondly she was a teacher of many companions..

But the most important thing is that a person who resides with prophet(Saw) knows better rulings regarding their own family than outsider.. this is common sense, unless someone want to act in ignorant manner...And a person who lives along with prophet(Saw) knows better that what is forbidden for her and what is not forbidden for her instead of an outsider knowing that what is forbidden for her and what is not.

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt


Well this shows how weak you are to accept the hard truth... well regarding the narrations of hz ayesha(ra) then i have answered it multiple times and i didnt get any thing from shia as an answer to that explanation.

Regarding word Ahlebayt in quran it was used 3 times.. all the times for wives..

  1. wife of hz ibrahim(as).. if glad tiding of son was given that doesnt mean she became mother..

  2. mother of moses..she was refered as Ahlebayt because of being wife of imran(father of moosa(as))...

  3. wives of prophet(Saw)..

Example 1:
وَحَرَّمْنَا عَلَيْهِ الْمَرَاضِعَ مِن قَبْلُ فَقَالَتْ هَلْ أَدُلُّكُمْ عَلَى أَهْلِ بَيْتٍ يَكْفُلُونَهُ لَكُمْ وَهُمْ لَهُ نَاصِحُونَ
And we ordained that he refused suck at first, until (His sister came up and) said: “Shall I point out to you the people of a house(ahli bayt) that will nourish and bring him up for you and be sincerely attached to him?”.(28:12)
Even in the verse above the mother of Moses(as) is termed as ahlebayt, not because she was mother of a prophet, but because she was the wife of Imran. And some people like shia scholar aqa pooya mahdi whose tafseer is refered by popular shia website al-islam.org have completely misunderstood this verse, they think that here mother of Moses(as) was termed ahlebayt because she was mother of a prophet, no this is wrong understanding because, the statements which the sister of Moses(as) made , were to the soldiers of firawn , if the sister of Moses(as) was addressing the lady with term ahlebayt because she was mother of Moses(as), then the people there would surely would have questioned her that who is the mother of his child and why did she put the baby in the river and then everything would have been messed up.
Similar is said by a different shia tafseer: **
(The agents of Pharaoh became happy by that statement and began going with her toward that lady. **Moses’ sister, who showed herself as an unacquainted person and a stranger,
informed the mother of the matter.) (The Light of The Holy Qur’an by Ayatullah Sayyid Kamal Faghih Imani and A Group of Muslim Scholars, under explanation of verse 20:40)
And if people use their common sense then they can understand this verse easily that, in no way the sister of Moses(as) was signifying any relation between the child and mother of Moses(as), had she done so, she would have been in deep trouble. But infact she addressed mother of Moses(as) with “ahlebayt” because of being the wife of a person(Imran).
Its is possible that after reading convincing response to the illogical arguments raised by them, the shia might try to take a U-turn with their theories , they might say that in this verse a complete household is being addressed, not just a single lady. So to such arguments we answer from the Quran itself . Because the best way is to explain the Quran is through the Quran. For, what the Quran alludes to at one place is explained at the other, and what it says in brief on one occasion is elaborated upon at the other.
Quran says: See how We repeat the verses that they may understand.” (6:65)
“And certainly We have repeated for mankind in this Quran, every kind of similitude, but the majority of mankind do not consent to aught but denying.” (17:89)
Its clear from quran that there was no need for a complete household, But just a single woman who could nurse the child. So why would sister of Moses(as) refer to a complete household? Moreover another verse of quran is more clear to solve the confusion that was it a complete household addressed by sister of moses(as) or just a single lady with the term “ahlebayt” ?
Your sister went to them and said, “May I show you “someone” who will nurse this child?”(sarwar shia translator, 20:40)
Even explained similarly by shia commentators:She told the men of Pharaoh whether she introduced a “woman” to them who was able to nurse the baby. The verse continues saying: (“…’Shall I direct you to one who will nurse him?’ …”) Maybe, she added that this “woman” had a pure milk so that she was sure that the child would accept it. (The Light of The Holy Qur’an by Ayatullah Sayyid Kamal Faghih Imani and A Group of Muslim Scholars, under explanation of verse 20:40) )
From popular Shia website, Al-Islam.org, which contains the authentic Shia Tafseer of Pooya/M.A. Ali. :When it was picked by Firawn’s family and they seemed to love the child, she appeared before them and promised to bring a good “wet-nurse” for the child.(pooya ali, tafseer al islam.org 20:40)
Similar is said in another shia tafseer i.e Tafseer namuna vol 7, page 359
Even sunni commentators explain the same:
she then said, “Shall I show you “someone” who will take care of him?”. Her offer was accepted and so she brought [them] his “mother” and he took to her breasts.(tafseer jalalayn 20:40)
She meant , “Shall I guide you to “someone” who can nurse him for you for a fee” So she took him and they went with her to his real mother.(tafseer ibn katheer, 20:40)
Quran itself answers such misunderstandings , where it clears that sister of moses(as) referred to single women “someone”… the Qur’an is its own best commentary . As we proceed with the study of the Book, we find how true this is. A careful comparison and collation of passages from the Qur’an removes many difficulties.
And moreover if for an instance for sake of argument we agree that it was a complete household addressed, even then no one can deny that fact that, mother of Moses(as) was included in it, and not because of being the mother of the child, as we explained why, but because being the wife of Imran.

Example 2:
قَالُواْ أَتَعْجَبِينَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللّهِ رَحْمَتُ اللّهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ إِنَّهُ حَمِيدٌ مَّجِيدٌ
She said: O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old woman and this my husband an extremely old man? Most surely this is a wonderful thing. They said: Do you wonder at Allah’s bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O people of the house(ahlebayt), surely He is Praised, Glorious.(11:72-73)
In this verse too, wife of hz ibrahim(as) is addressed as ahlebayt, And she was addressed because of being wife of hz ibrahim(as), As explained by quran itself in another chapter:(He went quietly to his wife(ahlihi) and returned to his guests with a fat, roasted calf.(51:26, sarwar shia translator)) *.
But there are some misguided people who fail to understand this and they give wrong, farfetched and out of the mind interpretations to these simple verses. They say, She was mentioned by angles in the above verse as a member of Ahlul-Bayt, AFTER she RECEIVED the glad tiding that she is pregnant of Prophet Isaac (AS).
Firstly, nowhere does the quran says she was pregnant , it just says that she was given a glad tiding of the birth of a child, moreover within the verse it also gives gladtidings of a grandson , no one even the most foolish shia on earth will say that someone was pregnant with that grandson at that time too, because of the glad tidings. Similarily, when Maryam 'Alaiha Al Salam] was given glad tidings of Easa 'Alaihi Al Salam] she was not pregnant at the time [Refer 3:45, 19:19-20, etc].
Secondly, the arabic word used in the verse(11:71) is ضحكت (*Dahikat
), Now a good portion of their(shia) scholars explained it as meaning *حاضت (or menstruated).
*

Their scholar Al-Fayd Al-Kashani, for example, [the scholar of his Time and Age - according to them] said in his Tafseer: Al-’Ayashi from [the way of] Al-Sadiq ‘Alaihi Al salam [said: that Dahikat means] ***Haadhat *(she menstruated),
same as Al-Qumi who added that she had not had her period for a long time before.
Al-Qumi [said]: Dhahikat meaning Haadhat (she menstruated), and it (i.e. her menstrual cycle) had stopped long before that (i.e. before she menstruated that time, she had not had her period for a long time before that).
There is another Hadeeth in their book with a SaHeeH isnaad **that talk about this.
في كتاب معاني الاخبار ابى رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله عن يعقوب بن يزيد عن ابن ابى عمير عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج عن ابى عبد الله عليه السلام في قول الله عز و جل: «فضحكت فبشرناها بإسحق» قال: حاضت.
Here is the SaHeeH hadeeth from Al-Sadooq’s Ma`aanee Al-akhbaar that tells us that this explanation (i.e. that she menstruated) has been authentically reported from one of the Shia infallible Imams.
Thus, It actually says that she didn’t have her period for a long time before she got it this time (refer to the words of Al-Qumi mentioned above which affirms this) meaning that she was Not pregnant at the time. A pregnant women does not menstruate. Based on this, my question would be: According to these scholars and Al-Sadiq (who is infallible according to them), and the understanding they put forth, why would Sarah be included in Ahl Al-Bayt if she was not pregnant at the time?
Moreover one of the shia tafseer even refutes the misunderstanding of the shias who argue that the wife of hz ibrahim(as) was called ahlebayt because of being mother of prophets(as).
**Question
: Considering the fact that in the above verse (11:73), the angels addressed Abraham’s wife using the phrase Ahl- ul- Bayt, and since, naturally, everyone’s wife is considered as part of one’s household, why is it then that in the verse of Tathir in the Sura Al Ahzab, No. 33, verse 33,(1) the wives of the Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.) are not included in his household?‏
Answer: Regarding only the literal meaning of the word, it would be natural for the word Ahl- ul- Bayt to include reference to one’s wife.(The Light of The Holy Qur’an volume 7, section 7, under title “Ministry of Lot ” page 276, (Ayatullah Sayyid Kamal Faghih Imani and A Group of Muslim Scholars )
So this shia commentary agrees that in the verse 11:73, the lady addressed as ahlebayt is because of being wife of hz Ibrahim(as)
Moreover another verse of quran refutes their claim because wife of hz ibrahim(as) was called “ahli” even before she was given the glad tiding of birth of child : He went quietly to his wife(ahlihi) and returned to his guests with a fat, roasted calf.(51:26, sarwar shia translator)
And Allah said : See how We repeat the verses that they may understand.” (6:65)
“And certainly We have repeated for mankind in this Quran, every kind of similitude, but the majority of mankind do not consent to aught but denying.” (17:89)

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

that is well misguided. for someone who continually shouts -rafidhi and nawasib- you do have alot of rafidhi tendencies in your aqeedah.seeing the reprimand but missing the praise, importance, defence and status also given in the quran

and if you for one moment try to seperate 33:33 or insinuate that the mothers ra are not somehow included by using words such as honorary then saying her RA word is not good enough for you, every muslim should know which group you belong to!

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

Rather its the filth of nasibism flowing into your veins that make you do not stand anything in favour of Ahlulbayt (as) and hence declare such a person as Rafidhi. Typical Nasibi approach adopted by the Nawasib of Shaam with Imam Nasai !!

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

lol, people who openly accuse and curse mothers of believers who are actually Ahlebayt accuse others of being nasibis.. what a joke..

Re: blog in defence of complete Ahlebayt

*** I think this thread has reached its limit for valuable contribution ***