Blasphemy law

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

I think your sexuality is defined by which organs you are born with and if that seems a little odd to you then there is a lot more to worry about. And if you support that oddity then there is a even more wrong with you. Perhaps you do not understand that a dick does not belong in a pooper. Sorry for this language btw.

It's ok, that's the langauge I expect from people with this pov. I contend one's sex *and *sexuality are defined by God. I find it quite odd for people to think that one is not loved by God for following the sexuality they were born with.

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Now what does that have to do in comparison with a secular society which does not even enforce any laws prescribed by religion.
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Because you said *"Muslims amend and change their policies and procedures all the time that are not of divine origin", *I guess you meant governments of majority Muslim countries, which is quite different than "Muslims".

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Well lets here some points then with evidence ofcourse.
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Dude, look at their beliefs and practices and you tell me how they are not diametrically opposed. I already said in broad areas such as capitalism, economics, constitutions, political parties, revolution, social justice and the establishment of sharia law.

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PFLAG ???
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Parents Friends and Friends of Lesbians and Gays. An organization that celebrates diversity and envisions a society that embraces everyone, including those of diverse sexual orientations and gender identities.

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

@Seminole

It’s ok, that’s the langauge I expect from people with this pov. I contend one’s sex *and *sexuality are defined by God. I find it quite odd for people to think that one is not loved by God for following the sexuality they were born with.

And if you had understood my point, your sexuality is determined from the point on that you have a specific gender. All other absurd behavior should be controlled and rooted out. Semi, this is a lame argument that God loves you is an excuse to do whatever it is whether natural or unnatural. If that is the case then God loves people who are polygamous as well, they are just born with the tendency and means to have more women in their life yet you guys go head over heels when it comes to that issue but the homosexuals and lesbians should be left alone because they are loved by God.

@Seminole

Because you said *“Muslims amend and change their policies and procedures all the time that are not of divine origin”, *I guess you meant governments of majority Muslim countries, which is quite different than “Muslims”.

And you really failed to see the emboldened part, which made you suggest different interpretations. I think everything was pretty impilcit and clear in what I was saying.

@Seminole

Dude, look at their beliefs and practices and you tell me how they are not diametrically opposed. I already said in broad areas such as capitalism, economics, constitutions, political parties, revolution, social justice and the establishment of sharia law.

Dude, quantify your argument. Lets start out with one thing. How about Social justice?

[SyedAbduallah]

Re: Blasphemy law

[QUOTE]
If a person born in a muslim home, but wants to become a christian - is this blasphemy?

[/QUOTE]

Yes, but this is applied generally to any religion, i.e. if a muslim is confused and converts to any other religion, the individual becomes a murtad and is to be punished.

The punishment is based upon the individuals age, sex and sanity. For a sane male the punishment is death. For a sane female the punishment is death or life imprisonment. For a male child the punishment is imprisonment until the child reaches an age where he can reason, and if he still holds his beliefs, the execution proceeds.

[QUOTE]
If a person said that 'it is wrong to divorce a women, by saying talak, talak, talak - is that Blasphemy.
Unstable people or in jest - if a person says that they are Allah/God - is it blasphemy.

The punishment is death?!!!!
[/QUOTE]

I do not know.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Blasphemy law

Semi i would really appreciate if you can spare some time to answer for my post 16.

Thanks in advance,

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

Semi .... where are you?

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

@USResident

And if you had understood my point, your sexuality is determined from the point on that you have a specific gender. All other absurd behavior should be controlled and rooted out. Semi, this is a lame argument that God loves you is an excuse to do whatever it is whether natural or unnatural. If that is the case then God loves people who are polygamous as well, they are just born with the tendency and means to have more women in their life yet you guys go head over heels when it comes to that issue but the homosexuals and lesbians should be left alone because they are loved by God.

Ok, this is way off base, but just to finish the point… One’s sex and sexuality are 2 totally different things. God created both, so following one’s sexuality is not unnatural. Not because God loves them, because they are acting naturally according to the way God created them. The absurd behavior that needs to be rooted out is the intolerance and ignorance that believes otherwise.

And you really failed to see the emboldened part, which made you suggest different interpretations. I think everything was pretty impilcit and clear in what I was saying.

Sorry, nothing about that was implicit or clear to me. Suffice to say, we have major disagreements what constitutes divine origin. But my larger point was that Muslims themselves seem to be confused since they treat ‘reported’ sayings of a prophet as divine origin.

Dude, quantify your argument. Lets start out with one thing. How about Social justice?

C’mon, wahabism flies in the face of the way the majority of Muslims practice religion today, do I really need to enumerate how that practice flies in the face of almost everything western societies represent? It would be much easier to list the things that are common.

But all this has become way off topic. The gist of this blasphemy argurment is this:

@SyedAbduallah

Yes, but this is applied generally to any religion, i.e. if a muslim is confused and converts to any other religion, the individual becomes a murtad and is to be punished.

The punishment is based upon the individuals age, sex and sanity. For a sane male the punishment is death. For a sane female the punishment is death or life imprisonment. For a male child the punishment is imprisonment until the child reaches an age where he can reason, and if he still holds his beliefs, the execution proceeds.

The is the pov that should be discussed. How anyone in this day and age can reccomend death for someone who decides the religion he was born into isn’t for him is beyond comprehension. What an insecure, unGodly act that is.

How many people really believe in this barbaric practice?

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

Ok, this is way off base, but just to finish the point... One's sex and sexuality are 2 totally different things. God created both, so following one's sexuality is not unnatural. Not because God loves them, because they are acting naturally according to the way God created them. The absurd behavior that needs to be rooted out is the intolerance and ignorance that believes otherwise.

Its not off base, you simply cannot answer and defend what you are saying. So why do we root out absurd behavior when it involves kidnapping, raping or killing people. Maybe someone has a natural tendency for it. Men having a natural tendency to fondle women and flirt and sleep with them is not unusual, why don't you promote that. So does God love them for doing that or he doesn't.

Sorry, nothing about that was implicit or clear to me. Suffice to say, we have major disagreements what constitutes divine origin. But my larger point was that Muslims themselves seem to be confused since they treat 'reported' sayings of a prophet as divine origin.

No no no, I clearly stated we are not discussing things of divine origin here. We are not talking about Bible and Quran here. We are talking about civil law changing not its sources in all cases. Your going on a tangent here. Please come back to what I was talking about.

C'mon, wahabism flies in the face of the way the majority of Muslims practice religion today, do I really need to enumerate how that practice flies in the face of almost everything western societies represent? It would be much easier to list the things that are common.

I am ready to go if you can show me what you are talking about. I am trying to shed the generalities and get into specifics. Your claiming something then bring it forth and we can discuss.

But all this has become way off topic. The gist of this blasphemy argurment is this: The is the pov that should be discussed. How anyone in this day and age can reccomend death for someone who decides the religion he was born into isn't for him is beyond comprehension. What an insecure, unGodly act that is.

How many people really believe in this barbaric practice?

Actually I am not of this opinion (maybe many muslims are but they really don't spend time to ascertain what is right or wrong). The narrations where people were put to death for apostacy are all tied with treason, so in my opinion most people make the mistake of tying the two together. I don't the real reason for putting to the death was because they apostasized but because they intentionally declared to be muslims so they can get close and harm the muslims. Its treason and betrayal, which interestingly most countries today regard as a very severe crime and traitors are always put to death or charged with the highest offense.

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

Its not off base, you simply cannot answer and defend what you are saying. So why do we root out absurd behavior when it involves kidnapping, raping or killing people. Maybe someone has a natural tendency for it. Men having a natural tendency to fondle women and flirt and sleep with them is not unusual, why don't you promote that. So does God love them for doing that or he doesn't.

I can easily defend what I'm saying, I have spent years working with AIDS/HIV patients and gay rights issues. It doesn't relate to kidnapping, raping or killing anymore than being Musilm is related to those crimes. No one is asking you to promote anything, just mind your own business and treat those with whom you disagree with respect. I have met many gay couples who are more caring, spiritual, monogamous and benevolent than some of the self righteous hypocrites who defile them.

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Actually I am not of this opinion (maybe many muslims are but they really don't spend time to ascertain what is right or wrong). The narrations where people were put to death for apostacy are all tied with treason, so in my opinion most people make the mistake of tying the two together. I don't the real reason for putting to the death was because they apostasized but because they intentionally declared to be muslims so they can get close and harm the muslims. Its treason and betrayal, which interestingly most countries today regard as a very severe crime and traitors are always put to death or charged with the highest offense.
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You don't really want to spend the time to determine if this heinous crime (that some say is a divine law) is right or wrong, but you can spend worthless time judging or caring who others choose as life partners? Sounds like a priority issue here.

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

I can easily defend what I'm saying, I have spent years working with AIDS/HIV patients and gay rights issues. It doesn't relate to kidnapping, raping or killing anymore than being Musilm is related to those crimes. No one is asking you to promote anything, just mind your own business and treat those with whom you disagree with respect. I have met many gay couples who are more caring, spiritual, monogamous and benevolent than some of the self righteous hypocrites who defile them.

Its an immoral behavior, bottomline. Just like others such as raping, groping etc etc are. Someone being a self-righteous hypocrite does not make homosexuality right. So lets not mixup the two. Tomorrow you'll probably be advocating for people who are naturally inclined to have it with animals. You probably will not see anything wrong with their sexuality either.

You don't really want to spend the time to determine if this heinous crime (that some say is a divine law) is right or wrong, but you can spend worthless time judging or caring who others choose as life partners? Sounds like a priority issue here.

Semi, are you even reading my posts. I started my reply by saying it is not right to be killing for apostacy alone and then you tell I am not spending time to determine its ins and outs. Man get a grip of yourself.

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

Its an immoral behavior, bottomline. Just like others such as raping, groping etc etc are. Someone being a self-righteous hypocrite does not make homosexuality right. So lets not mixup the two. Tomorrow you'll probably be advocating for people who are naturally inclined to have it with animals. You probably will not see anything wrong with their sexuality either.

Correction, it is immoral in your eyes, and in the fundamentlist interpretation of organized religion. IMO, it is your judgment of them that is immoral. I've heard it all from bigots and intolerants, but it still disgusts me when people pull out the 'sex with animals' argument when trying to demonize homosexuals. It appears you are the one mixing things up - first with murder and rape and now sex with animals. I limit the bounds of morally acceptable sexuality to include a monogamous relationship between 2 people. No animals, kidnapping, promiscuity or multiple partners. Now mulitple wives or husbands? That I find immoral.

So now that you've stated that apostates should not be put to death, tell us, should homosexuals be stoned, thrown off a cliff or a wall pushed on them for punishment?

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Semi, are you even reading my posts. I started my reply by saying it is not right to be killing for apostacy alone and then you tell I am not spending time to determine its ins and outs. Man get a grip of yourself.
[/quote]
I misread "they" as "I"

(maybe many muslims are but **they **really don't spend time to ascertain what is right or wrong).

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Blasphemy law

Yes, but this is applied generally to any religion, i.e. if a muslim is confused and converts to any other religion, the individual becomes a murtad and is to be punished.

The punishment is based upon the individuals age, sex and sanity. For a sane male the punishment is death. For a sane female the punishment is death or life imprisonment. For a male child the punishment is imprisonment until the child reaches an age where he can reason, and if he still holds his beliefs, the execution proceeds.

Based on what?
Is Islam a mafia type business where you may enter but cannot exit?
Is this the real reason why we do not see conversions out of Islam?

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

Correction, it is immoral in your eyes, and in the fundamentlist interpretation of organized religion. IMO, it is your judgment of them that is immoral. I've heard it all from bigots and intolerants, but it still disgusts me when people pull out the 'sex with animals' argument when trying to demonize homosexuals. It appears you are the one mixing things up - first with murder and rape and now sex with animals. I limit the bounds of morally acceptable sexuality to include a monogamous relationship between 2 people. No animals, kidnapping, promiscuity or multiple partners. Now mulitple wives or husbands? That I find immoral.

Well in that case I do not agree with your boundary limits. You find polygamy immoral but what do you think about having many sleeping parteners out of wedlock?

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

You find polygamy immoral but what do you think about having many sleeping parteners out of wedlock?

I believe promiscuity and infidelity to be immoral acts.

[hareem01]

Re: Blasphemy law

I believe promiscuity and infidelity to be immoral acts.

this is not an answer to UsResident's question.

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

^ if you'll look up the meaning of those big words I think you'll find it does.

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

I believe promiscuity and infidelity to be immoral acts.

Good at least we agree somewhere. Since you believe promiscuity immoral does that mean you also consider sexual relations out of wedlock immoral period.

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

Good at least we agree somewhere. Since you believe promiscuity immoral does that mean you also consider sexual relations out of wedlock immoral period.

If you define wedlock as a commited relationship between two people, yes.

[USResident]

Re: Blasphemy law

If you define wedlock as a commited relationship between two people, yes.

If you mean GF and BF, then no that is not what I mean. I mean formally wedded.

[Seminole]

Re: Blasphemy law

I mean 2 people commiting to each other as partners in life. Not 3 or 5 or 7. Not including animals. Not something arranged. But two people who are in a loving, monogamous relationship. Companions in life. Soul mates. Family. I don't think one needs a civic or government sanctioned ceremony to formalize this status. It's between them and God.

[double_roti_1]

Re: Blasphemy law

I mean 2 people commiting to each other as partners in life. Not 3 or 5 or 7. Not including animals. Not something arranged. But two people who are in a loving, monogamous relationship. Companions in life. Soul mates. Family. I don't think one needs a civic or government sanctioned ceremony to formalize this status. It's between them and God.

Give a reference from Gospel.

Is sleeping out of wedlock sanctioned in Gospel?