Blasphemous film ready to release

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Interesting, and I always thought he is a right-wing supporter (politically). He must be against Jews and Israel as much as he is against Muslims and Islam. It seems he is really just a puppet of the Zionists.

only *innocent smile and jiia's* thread
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Sorry, I fail to see how that example of how nude women relate in any way to this thread.

[quote]
But you agree with Jesus ressuraction and yet question Muhammads (s.a.w) Prophethood. So something is really wrong then, Isn't It? Oh no, there isnt, since we have different believes :). THere are enough mentioning in the Quran regarding our Prophet (s.a.w), Cave Hira and the incident where all started. More authentic proves than about the ressuraction of Jesus.
[/quote]
Different beliefs. Faith. There is absolutely no "proof" whatsoever of either the ressurection of Jesus or God talking through an angel in a cave to Muhammad. Nothing approaching authentic proof.

[quote]
No one is justifying violence against free minds. But at times free minds need to be shut(ted) up once and for all without the use of violence.
[/quote]
If you feel so compelled to tell other people from other cultures and other countries to shut up, then go for it. There are certainly civilized ways to go about it.

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ignore it and it goes away. give it attention and it becomes a blockbuster. use your brain.

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
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Sorry , but I think you spin a tall tale . Never heard of Aklima nor gaza. As for twins? What? Searched torah , bible and even Quran. Where do you come up with these two names. Seems more like you are referring to the story combo of King Lear and Lucretia Borgia.

It is written Adam and Eve and sons Cain and Able. No mention every of daughters being born. Is this a vision of a momentary frontal lobe seizure because please post where exactly those two women's name come up. Therefore, were did the rest of the people come from.

And did Adam and Hawwa have a navel, belly button?

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Yea…i just made up those names because they sounded sacred and good to tell. Then i woke up and realized ‘heyyyy they’ll fall for this one’…you got me. :chai:

Yup…i agree!

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Adam and Eve theory
This Adam and Eve theory has caused much damage to women.

Firstly, God created Man. What he could not create Woman independently also? Omnipotent ??? A woman can not exist of her own accord , she had to be grown from Adam’s (man’s) rib. Further insult is added , that it was a woman not man who was tempted. How come man is exonerated? Perhaps, because religion is patriarchal and influenced by male dominance? Poor innocent man next to a wicked woman. Further insult to women.

To add further insult to women, she had to bear the brunt of her ‘wicked’ ways by enduring labour pains and from then on her off spring to suffer her wicked ways. AGAIN PATRIARCHAL AND MALE DOMINANCE . Smells more and more like a chauvinistic writings.

How unfortunate , this Judeo -Christian story has penetrated muslim thinking This theory used to make believers think women as inferior and wicked.

Yet Quran , says Adam and Hawwa existed independently of their own right and both created out of one single cell. And both are equally susceptible to wickedness. Surah 2, Verse 36

Adam and eve /hawaa is an allegory (fable, tale, symbol) to show relationship in general between man and woman.

Therefore, does an allegory trump scientific fact of evolution? So where did the other people come from? And did Adam and Hawaa have belly buttons? ever wonder about this?

For a deeper understanding of the Judeo-Christian - Islamic the allegory of Adam and Eve/Hawaa research abiogenesis. To ease your research try this link for an indepth understanding Abiogenesis FAQs: The Origins of Life .

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Well Quran says Allah created Adam first. Then Eve.
All are equals, but each has his/her own rights that makes them different from each other.

Say what you will to differ on that, or offer you own version. I believe Quran over anyone else's word.

The Noble Qur'an Al-A'raf 7:189 It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He has created from him his wife [Hawwa (Eve)],in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her.

The Noble Qur'an Al-'Imran 3:59
Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

Hadith - Abu Dawood. Imam Ahmad has narrated from Abu Musa that the Prophet*** said:***

"Allah has created Adam from a handful (soil) which He had gathered from all over the earth. That is how the children of Adam came according to the (colour and nature of the) earth. There are white among them, as well as red and black, and cross colours. There are those among them who are of bad nature and good nature, soft as well as harsh and in between".

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[quote="Ali_R"]

  1. Do you believe Jesus to be God? You are the only one then. Coz I dont remember any sect of Christianity claiming Jesus to be GOD.
    JESUS is god for almost all section of christianity. Bible endorse it It is the MUSLIMS who made Jesus a mere prophet ,the most sevre insult to christianity
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Yes, Christians believe Jesus Christ to be both truly God and truly man. Muslims seem to not be able to grasp this "Son of God" thing and consider the worship of Jesus as polytheism.

Christians believe God to be God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - all incarnations of the same one God. Jesus was not God Jr., but rather God incarnated in human form.

The Christians sects Ali_R is famillar with must be non-trinitarians, which compromise a very small # of Christians.

So it is no wonder that many Christians do feel insulted that he was made into a mere prophet by Islam and Muhammad became the most important character in human history.

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Well I know you dont understand anything. That is nothing knew.

So all of a sudden Quran becomes unauthentic source I see.
Read the Quran first then we can discuss and especially focus on Surah Al-Alaq. Im not going to start quoting quran verses to make you understand that you are not that dumb as you pretend now to be.

Dont worry, I’m verbally very active.

%between%

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Kyun? Samje?

Timepass
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You should worry about your own understanding. I think I covered everything pretty objectively and without error.

[quote]
So all of a sudden Quran becomes unauthentic source I see.
Read the Quran first then we can discuss and especially focus on Surah Al-Alaq. Im not going to start quoting quran verses to make you understand that you are not that dumb as you pretend now to be.
[/quote]
Stop with the dumb insults. That's never the right way to post and certainly not coming from you.

All of a sudden? The Quran has *never *been an authentic source except to those who believe through faith or have convinced themsleves through faith that it is authentic. It doesn't matter what you quote from the Quran, that would be a circular argument.

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What in the world does what you quoted have to do with the Christian understanding of Jesus as God? You just posted things from the Hebrew Bible which was written before the birth of Christ. Verstehen Sie den Unterschied zwischen Judaismus und Christentümern?

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Seminole, I cant remember insulting you.
You stated in this pig thread quran be authentic but hadiths (some scripts gathered over the years) not to be. Another twist, Isnt It?

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Ali_R, it's like talking to a wall.

The three monotheistic religions – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam – all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as “tawhid” in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the “Shema”, or the Jewish creed of faith: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4) It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said “...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29)
Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again:
“And your God is One God: there is no God but He...” (Quran 2:163)
Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – in one divine being.
If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:
“...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity...” (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)
Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?
It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?
Trinity in the Bible

References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this “Great Commission” does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase “...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text – that is, not the actual words of Jesus – as can be seen by two factors:
1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
2) the “Great Commission” was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost – see Mark 16:15.
The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of 1 John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase “... there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” is definitely a “later addition” to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today’s versions of the Bible.
It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.

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No, I stated Muslims believe the Quran to be authentic because they* believe *they are the literal words of God (I personally don't believe that). But hadith are obviously not words of God by anyone's definition and I don't understand how people put them on par with words of God.

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Ich verstehe den Unterschied sehr wohl, but obviously you are not getting my point. I have quoted this here to make you understand I was referring to these quotes, when I was speaking of Son of God not Son the God, which is merely used in the new testament. And not every Christian believes in Son the God definition.

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You are right. I rest my case.

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A Formal Doctrine Is Drawn Up

When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria – Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop – Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Church Puts Its Foot Down

The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; “Arianism” became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who didn’t hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
It wasn’t until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
Debate Continues

Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.
The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than “I believe it because I was told to do so.” It is explained away as “mystery” – yet the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 that “… God is not the author of confusion …”
The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: “… Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.” (Luke 4:8)
Islam and the Matter of the Trinity

While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam:
“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God” (Quran 5:73)
It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name “Allah” as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, in her book What Everyone Should Know About Islam and Muslims (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says:
“But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in.”[1]](Who Invented the Trinity? (part 2 of 2) - The Religion of Islam)
Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.
Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity – God being Three-in-One – is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don’t revere just One God, they revere three.
This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Quran sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title “Mother of God” by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verses in the Quran most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Quran as a “member” of the Trinity, is simply not true.
While the Quran does condemn both trinitarianism (the Quran 4:171; 5:73)[2]](Who Invented the Trinity? (part 2 of 2) - The Religion of Islam) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Quran 5:116)[3]](Who Invented the Trinity? (part 2 of 2) - The Religion of Islam), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Quran is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.
In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Quran, God’s Final Revelation to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:
“… your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.” (Quran 18:110)
“… take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.” (Quran 17:39)
– because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout ALL His Revealed Scriptures:
“… I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other) …” (Quran 21:92)

  • And i rest mine as well. If facts can’t make people realize, then i dono what will. :)*
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No one is comparing the importance and authenticity of Quran with Hadith.
Nor did I.
But I still remember you stating something like you do "believe" Quran to be authentic. Maybe I was wrong.