Sad to know that only the MUSLIM world care about such facts.
*“Ishq bhi ho Hijaab mein husn bhi ho Hijaab mein. Ya tu khud Aaskhaar ho ya mujh ko Aaskhaar kar.”
*
Ibrahim..
I would love to prove to you on engineering principles on all the points you have raised on my reply.. but I do not have time to indulge someone who has his mind made up to the facts 'as he sees it'....
only four comments to make..
1. concrete is not used in skyscrapers as structural element (only facade and floors) as it is too heavy and not enough strength for the size it needs to be. a steel I-beam can carry much more weight than a structual reinforced concrete of four times its size.
I am a fire warden.. and yes .. there will be paper within the fire which will not burn.. something known as 'lack of oxygen'
helicopters do not fly when all flights have been grounded..(do i have to explain this again.. as it is quite self explanatory). and if a helicopter of plane is going to fly.. it will be shot down.. (in this case to prevent any further cases of helicopter flying into say.. Empire state building)
next time.. try not to go for personal attacks.. it cheapens your (or anyone else's) comments.. and i have less inclination to read rest of your comments.. which I did not.
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:10:59 -1000 (HST)
From: Islamic News and Information Network [email protected]
X-X-Sender: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: BBC spokesperson confirms 1991 footage was used on “celebrating”
Palestinians
Sender: [email protected]Assalamu’alaikum
Up until now we have not published this report. ININ is very careful to
ensure that our reports come from reliable sources as we have been burnt
by hoaxes in the best. But this info below was written by Russell Grossman
Head of Internal Communication, BBC, an offical source.The url is at http://forums.prospero.com/id-argument/messages/?msg=6521
We hope it remains on the page.
ININ
Well I posted this up earlier this afternoon but it mysteriously
dissapeared, so here it is again with a pre-post to hopefully help people
see what I’m trying to discuss…Now this is definately not some kind of pointer to a zionist or any other
form of conspiracy, I have never and hopefully will never subscribe to the
conspiracy theory ethos maintained by those wishing to pursue their own
agendas and prejudices. All I’m doing is passing on some news which I
thought may interest most here and maybe provoke some debate on the trust
and subsequent responsibility of news reporting agencies. I’m sure all of
you will agree that if this, and my gut instinct is yes, is true it asks a
lot of questions of the decisions and peoples involved and of the
potential damage which can be caused in future events.Again, I will repeat as before, if anyone wants to attack me personally
for posting this then go right ahead, contrary to previous accusations I
do not engage in ill-judged farmyard activities nor hold religious beliefs
of any denomination. For those of you still willing to read the
information below and form your own opinions of what this means with
regards to the power of information within todays society read on…There’s an important point in the power of press, specifically the power
of CNN.All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors,
and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of you
have been seeing (just as I’ve been) images from this company. In
Particular, one set of images caught my attention: the Palestinians
celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating celebration sweets and
making funny faces for the camera.Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of
Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It’s simply unacceptable
that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not
correspond to the reality in talking about so serious of an issue.At the BBC here, we have these footages on videotapes recorded in 1991,
with the very same images. But now, think for a moment about the impact of
such images. Your people are hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind of
broadcast has very high possiblity of causing waves of anger and rage
against the Palestinians.It’s simply irresponsible to show images such as those.
Russell Grossman | Head of Internal Communication | BBC
Third Floor | London Broadcasting House | LONDON W1A 1AA
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
Ibrahim..I would love to prove to you on engineering principles on all the points you have raised on my reply.. but I do not have time to indulge someone who has his mind made up to the facts 'as he sees it'....
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; BlackZero, as far as I noted you made the following claims , let me quote you. * “therefore.. score zero for the consipiracy theory..* .
Based on 1) I am not a civil engineer
2) All Air traffic was grounded
you discarded all the other info presented on this thread , to claim I was talking nuts, so, are you not the one who has made up your mind as you see it?
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
only four comments to make..
1. concrete is not used in skyscrapers as structural element (only facade and floors) as it is too heavy and not enough strength for the size it needs to be. a steel I-beam can carry much more weight than a structual reinforced concrete of four times its size.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; either you do not understand what I am saying of you lack simple constructions knowledge. I am referring to the pillars which has to support the 110 stories from the ground and they have to be steel beans encased in reinforced concrete and they cannot be buckling so easily or crumble unless explosive charges are used to weaken them . Try and find out how demolition jobs are done on old buildings to bring them down.
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
2. I am a fire warden.. and yes .. there will be paper within the fire which will not burn.. something known as 'lack of oxygen'
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; Yes paper will not burn, when they are stacked together, in large quantity and compacted together without oxygen but the edges will have darkened fire marks. This was not the case in the amount of papers that ejected from that building they were fresh without any traced of fire or water damage. But I am Illustrating to you the point that when you made a claim that it would have reached 1500 degrees in that environment, paper will burn because it is in an office environment, we are talking about not a paper store which is packed with paper only and little oxygen due to fire but intense heat generated in that environments as you seem to understand it . you can experiment this by placing a lot of papers stacked together in a drum and burning it.
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
3. helicopters do not fly when all flights have been grounded..(do i have to explain this again.. as it is quite self explanatory). and if a helicopter of plane is going to fly.. it will be shot down.. (in this case to prevent any further cases of helicopter flying into say.. Empire state building)
Ibrahim says; LOL! Are you able to understand what I am saying, I know that! and prior to the grounding of helicopters/planes what nots, they were filming the scene. I made it clear to all, FBI even stopped the Israelis filming it from their own office building…read the entire thread if you cannot understand what I am conveying.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by blackzero:
4. next time.. try not to go for personal attacks.. it cheapens your (or anyone else's) comments.. and i have less inclination to read rest of your comments.. which I did not.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; man THINK, being blunt does not mean being rude or attacking you, I have little time for lengthy discussions and I am habitually straight to the point to one and all, you made it clear that everything I wrote was zero, hence I had to tell you that you MUST be a zero…it does not mean you are being attacked. It only means you did not have the capacity to consider all the facts.
Which sadly seems to be the truth, since I have posted so many relevant points in this thread and you come back with this ridiculous excuse that you have not read because ??
** Saudi Suspects in U.S. Attacks Were Not in the U.S. **
RIYADH, Sept 17 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - U.S. officials in Riyadh offered Abdul Rahman Said al-Omari an official apology in the presence of Saudi interior ministry officials for including his name among the list of suspects in the U.S. terrorist attacks, news agencies reported Monday.
Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, told the Saudi daily Al-Watan that he was amazed to see his name on the FBI's list of suspects allegedly involved in the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center Tuesday, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.
Omari said he returned to Saudi Arabia in early September after undergoing training for one year in the United States, AFP added.
Meanwhile, the mother of another Saudi man, also suspected in the September 11th attacks, said Monday that her son has been in Chechnya for two years with a relief committee operating in the tiny war-torn Muslim republic.
The mother of Ahmad Ibrahim al-Ghamdi told Al-Watan that her son had been studying engineering in the Saudi city of Mecca before departing for Chechnya, AFP reported.
Ibrahim, 20, the youngest child in a family of three sons and four daughters, had been in constant contact with his family from Chechnya, said his mother.
The father of Fayez Mohammad al-Shehri, yet another Saudi suspect, also told the daily that his son had also left for Chechnya two years ago with the relief committee.
"He was going with the relief committee," said Shehri's father, a school headmaster.
Notably, the preliminary lists of confirmed dead of American Airlines flights 11 and 77 and United flight 175, released September 13th by U.K. daily The Guardian, did not include any Arab or Middle Eastern names.
According to The Guardian, some 81 passengers and 11 crew members were on board when American Airlines flight AA11, en route from Boston to Los Angeles, crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center.
This is the preliminary, partial list of passengers aboard the flight.
Crew
Captain John Ogonowski
First Officer Thomas McGuinness
Barbara Arestegui
Jeffrey Collman
Sara Low
Karen Martin
Kathleen Nicosia
Betty Ong
Jean Roger
Dianne Snyder
Madeline Sweeney
Passengers
Anna Allison
David Angell
Lynn Angell
Seima Aoyama
Myra Aronson
Christine Barbuto
Carol Bouchard
Neilie Casey
Jeffrey Coombs
Tara Creamer
Thelma Cuccinello
Patrick Currivan
Andrew Currygreen
Brian Dale
David Dimeglio
Donald Ditullio
Albert Dominguez
Al Filipov
Carol Flyzik
Paul Friedman
Karleton Fyfe
Peter Gay
Linda George
Edmund Glazer
Page Hackel Farley
Peter Hashem
Robert Hayes
Edward Hennessy
John Hofer
Cora Holland
Nicholas Humber
John Jenkins
Charles Jones
Robin Kaplan
Barbara Keating
David Kovalcin
N Janis Lasden
Danny Lee
Daniel Lewin
Jeff Mladenik
Antonio Montoya
Laura Morabito
Mildred Naiman
Laurie Neira
Renee Newell
Jacqueline Norton
Robert Norton
Jane Orth
Thomas Pecorelli
Bernthia Perkins
Sonia Puopolo
David Retik
Philip Rosenweig
Richard Ross
Heath Smith
Douglas Stone
Xavier Suarez
James Trentini
Mary Trentini
Mary Wahlstrom
Kenneth Waldie
John Wenckus
Candace Williams
Christopher Zarba
Some 58 passengers and six crew members were on board when American Airlines flight AA77, en route from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon, The Guardian reported. Again, no Arabic or Middle Eastern names appear on the list.
Crew
Captain Charles Burlingame
First Officer David Charlebois
Michele Heidenberger
Jennifer Lewis
Kenneth Lewis
Renee May
Passengers
Paul Ambrose
Yemen Betru
MJ Booth
Bernard Brown
Suzanne Calley
William Caswell
Sarah Clark
Asia Cottom
James Debeuneure
Rodney Dickens
Eddie Dillard
Charles Droz
Barbara Edwards
Charles Falkenberg
Zoe Falkenberg
Dana Falkenberg
James Ferguson
Budd Flagg
Dee Flagg
Richard Gabriel
Ian Gray
Stanley Hall
Bryan Jack
Steve Jacoby
Ann Judge
Chandler Keller
Yvonne Kennedy
Norma Khan
Karen Kincaid
Norma Langsteuerle
Dong Lee
Dora Menchaca
Chris Newton
Barbara Olson
Ruben Ornedo
Lisa Raines
Todd Reuben
John Sammartino
Diane Simmons
George Simmons
Mari Rae Sopper
Robert Speisman
Leonard Taylor
Sandra Teague
Leslie Whittington
John Yamnicky
Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang
Yuguag Zheng
Some 56 passengers and nine crewmembers were on board when United flight 175, on route from Boston to Los Angeles, crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center, The Guardian reported. No Arabic or Middle Eastern names appear here either.
Crew
Captain Victor Saracini
First Officer Michael Horrocks
Robert J Fangman
Amy N Jarret
Amy R King
Kathryn L Laborie
Alfred G Marchand
Michael C Tarrou
Alicia N Titus
Passengers
Alona Avraham
Garnet Bailey
Mark Bavis
Graham Berkeley
Klaus Bothe
David Brandhorst
Daniel Brandhorst
John Cahill
Christoffer Carstanjen
John Corcoran
Dorothy Dearaujo
Gloria Debarrera
Lisa Frost
Lynn Goodchild
Francis Grogan
Carl Hammond
Gerald Hardacre
Eric Hartono
James Hayden
Roberta Jalbert
Ralph Kershaw
Heinrich Kimmig
Brian Kinney
Maclovia Lopez
Marianne Macfarlane
Juliana Mccourt
Ruth Mccourt
Wolfgang Menzel
Shawn Nassaney
Marie Pappalardo
Patrick Quigley
Jesus Sanchez
Kathleen Shearer
Robert Shearer
Jane Simpkin
Brian Sweeney
Tim Ward
William Weems
Meanwhile, an official source at Saudi Airlines announced that Amer Kenfer, a Saudi aviation engineer whose name appeared on the list of passengers on board the United Airlines flight, en route from Boston to Los Angeles, is currently in Saudi Arabia.
Kenfer called Saudi Airlines from his home in Mecca once he heard his name announced as one of the passengers on the United flight, confirming that another passenger must have made use of the fact that foreigners in the U.S. are not asked to show their passports on domestic flights and had in this way used Kenfer's name.
The official Saudi source added that another Saudi suspect whose name was also included on the list of passengers who boarded the same United flight, Amir Bokhari - a Saudi Airlines pilot - had died two years ago during aviation training exercises.
sighs why do people cut & paste?
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
***sighs* why do people cut & paste?**
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; Innocent peoples life is at stack and you are annoyed at the evidence that proves their innocence?
Indeed you are an ahmadee…sorry I feel sick knowing that we have human beings who will allow the innocent to be persecuted.
Ibrahim,
Sorry if I offended you. Please take a chill pill!
This is just a discussion forum and people express their opinions here, not decide the fate of a country or another.
If you look at the prev. page, its nothing more than cut & pasted articles. If you have an article to share with everyone just give its link and then argue about it in your own words.
Sorry if you disagree but such long articles are a turn off for me. I like comments which are concise & easy to read.
[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**
Ibrahim says; either you do not understand what I am saying of you lack simple constructions knowledge. I am referring to the pillars which has to support the 110 stories from the ground and they have to be steel beans encased in reinforced concrete and they cannot be buckling so easily or crumble unless explosive charges are used to weaken them . Try and find out how demolition jobs are done on old buildings to bring them down.
**
[/quote]
no.. steel is not cased in concrete in high rise buildings of such heights.. too much weight..
Structual steel is left as it is.. with a coat of anti corrosive paint..
so there..
and no.. I do not take things personally when someone tries to make a personal attack.. but opinion of you would go down in someone else's mind. which is not a good thing.
** Millions of shares sold before disaster **
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001320007-2001323297,00.html
BY JAMES DORAN
THE CIA has asked the City regulators in London to investigate suspicious
sales of millions of shares before last Tuesdays attacks in America in the
belief that the paper trail will lead to the terrorists.American authorities are investigating unusually large numbers of shares
in airlines, insurance companies and arms manufacturers that were sold off
in the days and weeks before the attacks.They believe that the sales were by people who knew about the impending
disaster.The investigators are looking at so-called short selling transactions in
several financial centres across the world involving shares that dropped
dramatically after the attack.Short selling involves borrowing shares, selling them to a third party,
then buying them back when the price falls. Large profits can be made if a
share price falls significantly after it has been sold to the third party.The Financial Services Authority (FSA), the stock market watchdog, was
drawn into the investigation because it has a transaction monitoring
department that checks suspicious share movements.The FSA would not comment on its instructions from the CIA, but said that
its team of specialists would do all they could to help the investigation.
A spokesman said: The financial authorities have great expertise in this
field and could have a big part to play. It is something that is incumbent
upon us all to look at to the best of our ability.Market regulators in Germany, Japan and the US received information of
short selling of insurance company shares, airline stocks and shares in
arms companies all of which have fallen since the attack. Italian, French
and Swiss regulators have also joined the investigation.Munich Re, Swiss Re and Axa, all insurance companies, are also helping the
authorities with the inquiries as large numbers of their shares were
short-sold before the attack.A spokesman for Axa, a French company, said: We have informed the market
regulators in Paris that there are concerns about short selling.Richard Crossley, an analyst at Teather & Greenwood, a City broker, said
that he had tracked suspicious short selling and share dumping in a swath
of stocks badly affected by the terrorist attacks.He said that on the Friday before the attacks, more than 10 million shares
in Merrill Lynch, the US investment bank, were sold compared with 4
million on a normal day. He added that exceptionally high volumes of
retail and leisure stocks had also caught his attention.Before the attacks there was no pattern to this phenomenon, he said. The
shares that were sold were doing very well and someone was selling them in
very large quantities with no real reason.
Mr Crossley believes that someone with inside knowledge of the attacks
could have been making money on its expected outcome for up to three weeks
before the terrorists struck.What is more awful than he should aim a stiletto blow at the heart of
Western financial markets? But to profit from it. Words fail me, Mr
Crossley said.
FBI’s Investigation of the WTC Tragedy Exposed:
Part 1: The Black Box and the Indestructible Passport
All four Black Boxes were supposedly destroyed and rendered unusable in
spite of the fact that they are designed specifically for plane crashes
which result in insurmountable conditions…yet one of the hijackers
passports supposedly survives fire and heat of over 1,000 degrees fahrenheit
and is found in perfect shape in the rubble around the WTC towers? What
kind of idiots does the FBI take us for?
How indestructible are the so-called “Black Boxes”?
Each airplane is equipped with a Flight Data Recorder and a Cockpit Voice
Recorded. The term “Black Box” is used for these pieces of equipment. The
National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) web site gives valuable
information regarding these devices.
Regarding the Cockpit Voice Recorder it says:
“The CVR records the flight crew’s voices, as well as other sounds inside
the cockpit. The recorder’s “cockpit area microphone” is usually located on
the overhead instrument panel between the two pilots. Sounds of interest to
an investigator could be engine noise, stall warnings, landing gear
extension and retraction, and other clicks and pops. From these sounds,
parameters such as engine rpm, system failures, speed, and the time at
which certain events occur can often be determined. Communications with Air
Traffic Control, automated radio weather briefings, and conversation between
the pilots and ground or cabin crew are also recorded.” [NTSB web site ["]Page not found]](Page not found)
Regarding the Flight Data Recorder it says:
“The FDR onboard the aircraft records many different operating conditions of
the flight. By regulation, newly manufactured aircraft must monitor at least
twenty eight important parameters such as time, altitude, airspeed, heading,
and aircraft attitude. In addition, some FDRs can record the status of more
than 300 other in-flight characteristics that can aid in the investigation.
The items monitored can be anything from flap position to auto-pilot mode
or even smoke alarms.” [NTSB web site ["]Page not found]](Page not found)
Thus as we see each plane is equipped with two seperate “Black Box” devices
which relay different yet complimentary information. It goes on to say:
“Both the Flight Data Recorder and the Cockpit Voice Recorder have proven to
be valuable tools in the accident investigation process. They can provide
information THAT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN BY OTHER MEANS.” [NTSB web site ["]Page not found]](Page not found)
They are meant to be the hardy and sure way to get information regarding the
last minutes before the plane went down. Here are the specifications of
these devices including what they can withstand:
FLIGHT DATA RECORDER
Time recorded: 25 hour continuous
Number of parameters: 5 - 300+
Impact tolerance: 3400Gs /6.5ms
Fire resistance: 1100 degC/30 min
Water pressure resistance: submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon: 37.5 KHz
Battery: 6yr shelf life
30 day operation
COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER
Time recorded: 30 min continuous, 2 hours for solid state digital units
Number of channels: 4
Impact tolerance: 3400 Gs /6.5ms
Fire resistance: 1100 deg C /30 min
Water pressure resistance: submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon: 37.5 KHz
Battery: 6yr shelf life
30 day operation
These specifications indicate equipment which can survive just about any
conditions and any crash. Indeed, Black Boxes have been recovered from
crashes in swamps, mountains, and oceans.
ABC News reports:
“Although investigators look for an entire black box, sometimes the only
parts of the device that survive are the recorder’s crash-survivable memory
units (CSMU). THE CSMU IS ALMOST INDESTRUCTABLE. It is housed within a
stainless-steel shell that contains titanium or aluminum and a
high-temperature insulation of dry silica material.”
“It is designed to withstand HEAT OF UP TO 2,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT FOR ONE
HOUR, salt water for at least 30 days, immersion in a variety of liquids
such as jet fuel and lubricants, AND AN IMPACT OF 3,400 G’s. By comparison,
astronauts are typically exposed to up to six Gs during a shuttle takeoff.”
[ABCNews - ["]http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_blackboxes010917.html]](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_blackboxes010917.html)
So the Black Box is designed to withstand an impact of 3,400 G’s. So what
about the Pennsylvania crash site?
“THE VOICE RECORDER WAS SAID TO BE HEAVILY DAMAGED, and the manufacturer was
being asked to help with further analysis. The plane that crashed in
Pennsylvania was reported to have hit the ground in excess of 500 MILES PER
HOUR.” [ABCNews - ["]http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/dailynews/wtc_main010915.html]](http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/dailynews/wtc_main010915.html)
The plane hit the ground at 500 mph. Taking the weight of the plane, its
speed of descent, the G’s end up much, much lower than 3,400.
Since each plane has two seperate Black Boxes which are designed to be
indestructable in the event of a tragedy, that makes a total of EIGHT BLACK
BOXES. If we are to believe that all the Black Boxes were damaged beyond
use, then that is to say EIGHT BLACK BOXES in total were destroyed, while a
measley paper passport survived.
Then the final paragraph of the same article says: “Investigators are less
confident they will recover the black boxes buried underneath the rubble of
the World Trade Center.” So there is no hope of recovering the virtually
indestructable Black Box from the rubble, but a paper passport survives in
such a perfect state that it is “a significant piece of evidence”?
CNN reports one of the hijackers passports was found in the rubble of the
World Trade Center vicinity:
“The searchers found several clues, he said, but would not elaborate. Last
week, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was found in the
vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center. ‘It was a
significant piece of evidence for us,’ Mawn said.” [CNN ["]http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/17/inv.investigation.terrorism/index.html]](http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/17/inv.investigation.terrorism/index.html)
Also CNN reports:
“In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the World Trade Center, a
passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers was discovered a
few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik.” [CNN ["]http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.america.under.attack/index.html]](http://asia.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.america.under.attack/index.html)
Aside from the idiocy of any suggestion that a passport would survive a
plane crash that is allegedly so severe it destroys the virtually
indestructable Black Box, we are also led to believe that the passport “flew
away”, out of the hijackers pocket, down a few blocks from the WTC grounds.
Why a few blocks away? Could it be because it was a place out of everyone’s
sight?
It is also well known that paper was strewn all over the scene of the plane
crash. This was due to the sudden shattering of the windows which would
immediately eject all paper materials out of the building before
incineration. A passport in someone’s pocket who is sitting on a plane that
explodes will suffer the same fate as the person whose pocket it is in, and
the plane they are sitting in: absolute cremation.
United Airlines flight 93 crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. There was no
explosion and no impact into a building and no 100+ story towers crashed
down on top of it. Yet, we are led to believe that both of its Black Boxes
were destroyed and/or damaged beyond use as well.
Other airline tragedies also reveal that in each and every case the Black
Box is recovered, albeit damaged, but with full usability. Such crashes
include EgyptAir flight 990, a 767, and TWA flight 800, a 747. Both crashes
resulted in tremendous compromise of the planes physical integrity, but in
spite of this the Cockpit Voice Recorders were recovered.
So we have established that the survival of a passport of someone in an
exploded plane is lunacy. However, for the sake of argument lets say the
passport survived. If the passport did indeed survive then so did the Black
Box. If the Black Box did indeed survive as we have proven beyond a shred of
doubt, then why the complete and utter lie that it was damaged beyond use?
What are they hiding? This will be dealt with irrefutably in the next
section of this analysis into the corruption which has seeped into the U.S.
government, its foreign policy and its intelligence services.
This analysis has just begun, yet any sound minded person is already forced
to question the validity of this entire farce. I intend to dismantle this
investigation piece by piece as time allows. If the American people are so
concerned with finding justice, why aren’t more exposing these
inconsistencies, fabrications and outright lies as I have? Do we Americans
want JUSTICE SERVED or do we want MORE BLOOD of innocent civilians? Thus
far, in the United States of America, due to the anger over the tragedy
dubbed “PENTTBOM”, there have been at least three homicidal attacks against
immigrants. Now an overwhelming 80% of them are supporting an invasion into
a remote country that has absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy.
Instead of using their heads to get to the bottom of this and prosecute the
criminals behind this act, they are killing their neighbors, and laying the
heads of good American soldiers and innocent Afghan women and children on
the chopping block. I say “them” at this point and not “us”, because I
distance myself from those who commit hate crimes in the name of “America”
whom I have just described. Someone is playing a very sick game upon us all
right under our noses, and it will cost us our very lives if we do not STOP
them.
ABC News reports: “…And 69 percent say they’d support military action even
if it means a long war with substantial U.S. military casualties.”
You want “substantial U.S. military casualties”? What the hell is wrong with
everyone? The Afghans have never lost a war in 800 years. They not only
drove the Russians out of their country but it lead to the dissolution of
the Soviet Empire. They have brought empire after empire to their knees. In
a CNN interview with Jill Dougherty, Leo Korolkov who trained the Russian
Special Forces (equivalent of our Delta Force) said he saw Afghans shot to
ribbons and ripped to pieces still charging at them. In his words: “These
fighters can bring any country, even a superpower – be it Russia, the
United States or Europe – to the brink of catastrophe.”
Nearly 70 percent of Americans support sacrificing more American lives to
invade a country that couldn’t be further removed from any responsibility in
this tragedy to find ONE MAN before this circus of an investigation has even
been completed. Have we learned nothing from the plumes of terror that rose
from the ashes of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and a morose field
in Pennsylvania which shook our hearts and souls that fateful Tuesday? I
fear that we have not.
The above and similar other reports, are worth looking into. Today I heard that in the rubble, a driver license belonging to one of the supposed hyjackers was also found.
Why was this guy, carrying his passport while being on a domestic flight?? Wont his driver license do for identity purposes??
What is the source of above article, Ibrahim??
Bravo Ibrahim
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
guess i’m not the only one with differing ideas than what media instills in the minds of general public..
This event has just given kafars a master-key to penetrate any country (ie ‘muslim country’) just because they suspect so and so country is harboring terrorists.. as they claim afghanistan is’nt the only country that has such ‘cells’..
Ibrahim days; amazing! I suppose they will also sooner or later find signed letter from taliban or with osama picture attached in the rubble.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I was pretty sure this hijackers also carried video players and tv sets with them on board so that they can watch the videos on how to fly while commandeering the plane. Some videos on how to fly in Arabic were claimed to have been found by the FBI inside the hired car that was parked in logon airport. (reported by CNN and BBC) . The best report I heard and viewed, so far was, these guys went to a striptease joint on sept 10th , drank liquor, after which they threaten the owner and most of all gave him a Qur’an before they left ( also reported in CNN live)
Ibrahim says: Good point. As I said they will soon discover signed letter with instructions from taliban or OBL in Arabic, so that they can commence carpet bombing the afgans.
Ibrahim says; regarding the passport? , I had myself heard it on CNN live, but above article not written by me.
[quote]
Originally posted by ButterFingers:
This event has just given kafars a master-key to penetrate any country (ie 'muslim country') just because they suspect so and so country is harboring terrorists.. as they claim afghanistan is'nt the only country that has such 'cells'..
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; the way I see it, this event had been planned many many years ago by those who wanted to create the animosity.
What one should bear in mind is that
1) for Christians they have been awaiting the coming of Christ ( current expectation April 2002) and according to revelations this has to be done ( subjugation and annihilation of those who oppose them). Meaning it is a crusade. And nothing to do with terrorism.
2) The American economy was heading for recession and they needed to put the blame on someone.
3) Israel, India, UN and America had been isolated as racists or their supporters in the recent durban conference.
4) War is big business and creating public sympathy, patriotic feelings means public will cough out the money, just like in the past.
Yes I agree with you that by doing this they can now kill anyone in any part of this globe and claim they were a terrorist cell. And the fact that they have censored media on the onset, means one will not know to what extant they are going to terrorize the innocent in various parts of this globe.
But nothing new as this has been going on in various communities.
** Fear means
False
Evidence
Appearing
Real **
** Secret memo reveals US plan to overthrow Taliban regime **
Ian Traynor in Tajikistan and Gary Younge in Washington
Friday September 21, 2001
Secret memo reveals US plan to overthrow Taliban regime | World news | The Guardian
The US government is pressing its European allies to agree to a military
campaign to topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and replace it with
an interim administration under United Nations auspices.Diplomatic cables from the Washington embassy of a key Nato ally, seen by
the Guardian, report that the US is keen to hear allied views on
“post-Taliban Afghanistan after the liberation of the country”.The embassy cable reveals that the US administration is bent on force to
evict the Taliban from power because of the shelter it has offered Osama
bin Laden, named by the White House as prime suspect for the New York and
Washington atrocities on September 11.The Guardian has also learned that two large US Hercules transport
aircraft landed in Tashkent, capital of the former Soviet republic of
Uzbekistan, on Tuesday loaded with surveillance equipment to be installed
along the northern Afghan border.The secret landing represented a radical departure since it appeared to
herald the deployment of squadrons of US fighters at Uzbekistan’s
sprawling airfield at Termez, directly on the border. Such a build-up
would incur the wrath of Russia which views the central Asian republics as
its backyard.The Pentagon yesterday continued its move to a war footing, with orders
for up to 130 heavy bombers, fighters, aerial refuelling planes and other
combat aircraft to be deployed around the Middle East and Central Asia
region.Two B-52 bombers yesterday left Barksdale airbase in Louisiana, joining
F-15E fighter-bombers, F-16 fighters, B-1 long range bombers and E-3 Awacs
airborne command-and-control aircraft that left on Wednesday.The navy has also sent an additional aircraft carrier toward the Middle
East region,which along with the air deployment could place up to 500 US
warplanes in the Mediterranean, Gulf and Indian Ocean areas.Tony Blair, in Washington last night to meet Mr Bush, suggested military
strikes inside Afghanistan, targeted on Bin Laden’s training camps, could
come in a matter of days. “These people, if they could, would get access
to chemical, biological and nuclear capability. We have no option but to
act,” he said.The US strategy to depose the Taliban regime is based on more than
military thinking. A further plank appears to entail supporting the
campaign of the exiled 86-year-old monarch of Afghanistan, King Zahir
Shah, to return to power by encouraging the guerrilla army of the Northern
Alliance opposition to fall in behind him.Diplomatic documents seen by the Guardian show that Washington is funding
and organising the travel of several Northern Alliance figures to Rome to
confer with the exiled monarch who is expected to call for a revolution.
“The king plans to call on all the Afghan tribes to rise up against the
Taliban,” the diplomatic cable reported yesterday, citing the advice of
the US administration.US plans to overthrow the Taliban regime were revealed when a senior
European politician in Washington this week was told by the US
administration that it wanted to hear his country’s views on how
Afghanistan should be run after the Taliban were defeated and that “closer
consultations” were necessary.The Americans also spoke of a role for the UN in the new “interim
administration” for Afghanistan and for the Organisation for Security and
Cooperation in Europe in central Asia, without mentioning Nato.Washington is routinely sceptical of the UN and OSCE, but the key role was
seen as an attempt to build as broad a coalition as possible behind the
imminent campaign.The Europeans, Russia, and even China might be swayed by the unusual US
inclusiveness, diplomats said. “It’s a major change of US policy,” said
one.The spying mission in Uzbekistan is also fraught with political risk. The
two Hercules could not fly over Iran, but Turkmenistan, the third
ex-Soviet state bordering Afghanistan granted permission.However, diplomats said the Turkmens were less keen to grant overflying
rights to US fighter aircraft heading for the Afghan border.
Ibrahim...
let others post as well.. are do u plan to become the orator as well as the audience...
and stop cutting and pasting.. or don't you have any personal views on it?
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
Ibrahim...let others post as well.. are do u plan to become the orator as well as the audience...
[/quote]
Ibrahim asks: Hey Zero!!! How will I be able to stop any one from posting on this forum or thread??
Have you lost your senses too???
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
and stop cutting and pasting.. or don't you have any personal views on it?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says what he says, If you have a problem with waht i say or post, STOP reading what you don't like to read and get help, since you cannot handle the truth.
** FIRST STORY **
It has been said that "An American passenger phoned his mother to say that the plane he was onboard has been hijacked...then added that he phoned 911 who told him that 2 hijacked planes had crashed over WTC.
He continued (rather long conversation for a passenger on a hijacked flight) to say that he decided to make a POLL among fellow
passengers ON WHAT TO DO....and that some 32 of them APPROVED to try and fight it out with the hijackers.."
MEDIA picked it from there and CONCLUDED that a fight took place between passengers and hijackers which resulted in the crash of that ill-fated flight near Pittsburgh.
** SECOND STORY **
MEDIA said in a LIVE COVERAGE ....."F-16's had taken-off to INTERCEPT a hijacked plane thought to be heading towards Washington, DC."
MEDIA then went silent for some time on this hijacked plane.
MEDIA suddenly came up with a story that it CRASHED (no reason given) somewhere near Pittsburgh. MEDIA says that plane when crashing had broken off in TWO PIECES some
6 miles APART!!
LAST announcement : "The two BLACK BOXES could NOT be READ!!"
** Which story to buy?
Make your pick. **
[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**What one should bear in mind is that
1) for Christians they have been awaiting the coming of Christ ( current expectation April 2002) and according to revelations this has to be done ( subjugation and annihilation of those who oppose them). Meaning it is a crusade. And nothing to do with terrorism.**
[/quote]
Absolute hogwash, Mr Ibrahim.