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*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues:
Surat-u Ali-Imran (3):78
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Thanks for the quote, Smooth_guy.
Unfortunately it mentions "with their tongues" and is no indication that the Prophet meant the written version of the Torah or Old Testament.
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*Originally posted by sholay: *
Jesus never recorded the Bible in his lifetime. The first edition came around 200 years later or so.
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Jesus accepted the Hebrew text of the then Torah and never intended to write a written book himself. Jesus frequently quoted out of the then text and did not indicate at all that he is uncomfortable with it, same as the Prophet Muhammad many years later.
Why would it be incomplete? If your faith is for the Quran to be the only true book, then it should be enough.
What books did Abraham wrote?
Jesus never wrote a book but gave the Gospel verbally. It does therefor mean that he clearly wanted as many people to spread the Gospel by word or pen as long as the main facts remain the same.
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*Originally posted by The Old Man: *
Jesus never wrote a book but gave the Gospel verbally. It does therefor mean that he clearly wanted as many people to spread the Gospel by word or pen as long as the main facts remain the same.
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Which of the four gospels is the correct one?
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*Originally posted by M: *
Which of the four gospels is the correct one?
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not four, There are about 40 KNOWN authors of "New Testaments ". :)
I think you are missing the whole point… we DON’T believe that Quran is THE ONLY Holy book. Infact we believe Quran to be the last of the books.
I knew some1 will ask this question about Hazrat Ibrahim. Lemme clear this… NO BOOK was REVEALED (not wrote) to Hazrat Ibrahim :as: infact between 10 and 30 Sahifas (you may call them instructions) were revealed to Hazrat IBRAHIM :as:
And as a muslim we are required to believe on the Holy Books and Sahifas revealed earlier on different messangers of Allah.
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*Originally posted by The Old Man: *
Jesus accepted the Hebrew text of the then Torah and never intended to write a written book himself. Jesus frequently quoted out of the then text...
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Funny thing is, when the anonymous gospel writers have Jesus actually reading from the Torah - such as when he read from Isaiah - it only goes to show that the gospel writers were either ignorant of the Torah or they were working from a different version.
Here's what Jesus is said to have read out from Isaiah (see Luke 4:17-19 of the NIV):
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Yet the same passage from Isaiah actually reads like this (see Isaiah 61:1-2 of the very same NIV):
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners [or the blind in another version],
to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
The gospel writers forgot all about the emboldened line. It's certainly not the only blunder they made when referring back to the Old Testament.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
Funny thing is, when the anonymous gospel writers have Jesus actually reading from the Torah - such as when he read from Isaiah - it only goes to show that the gospel writers were either ignorant of the Torah or they were working from a different version.
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Do you have any proof that Jesus DID read the sentence. You sure he did not leave it out due to some reason? Sorry but you proof nothing with your statement.
It still stand that Jesus was more than happy to read and quote from the Torah without ANY reference that the books available in his time were not up to scratch.
Thanks for the info.
If it won’t digress too much from the present topic, could you tell me more about the “Sahifas” of Ibrahim. In what form was it given and what did it entail?
If none of the so-called 3 instruction data (Ibrahim, Jesus, David) are available today in an inerrant way, how can a Muslim believe and act on these instructions today? Surely no other book today is of any importance to Islam except the Quran? The fact that these mentioned instructions/books are not presently available in a pure sense (according to Islam), does it not make Islam, per se, only partly complete as they are requirements of the faith?
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*Originally posted by The Old Man: *
Do you have any proof that Jesus DID read the sentence.
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It's for you to prove that he DID!! The sentence is there in Isaiah as we have it now... Jesus, according to Luke, missed it out.
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You sure he did not leave it out due to some reason?
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You sure you aren't clutching at straws? Hey, maybe he missed it out because he knew the passage was corrupted and that that line didn't belong there!? ;-)
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Sorry but you proof nothing with your statement.
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I've proven one thing... the line is in Isaiah and Luke has Jesus missing it out.
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It still stand that Jesus was more than happy to read and quote from the Torah without ANY reference that the books available in his time were not up to scratch.
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If only the gospel writers were as knowledgeable of the Old Testament as Jesus undoubtedly was... perhaps then they might not have made so many blunders...
when you say only one book is true and one religen is true how peace
will prevail? you will end up fighting all and among yourselves over which
sect is true sect.
A lesson for six-year-olds reads: “All religions other than Islam are false”. A note for teachers says they should “ensure” they explain this point. The book forms part of the kingdom’s revised curriculum - supposedly cleaned up after complaints from the West. One textbook had urged teenagers not to befriend Christians or Jews:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_21-10-2004_pg3_2
^ Yes, it is a part of a Muslim's faith that only Islam is the true religion. This is a clear teaching in our religion and is mentioned several times in Quran.
Looking at it from a pure human-logic perspective, Islam lays stress on so many virtues, which appear in a conflicting form in other religions. Take tawheed, 'the oneness of Allah or God', for example. This is one of the basic points of conflicts between Islam and Christianity. How can a follower of Islam have faith in Tawheed and consider Christianity followable at the same time?
As far as not befriending Jews and Christians is concerned, this was a teaching revealed, upon the Mulsims of 1400 years ago, in Quran and it was according to the prevailing conditions at that time. Whether it applies as it is to the Muslims of today, as it is, is a detailed discussion and I don't have enough knowledge to comment on that. It is not a simple and basic issue, and therefore unsuitable to be taught to the kids of 2nd or 3rd grade.
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*Originally posted by ramyssysIX: *
^As far as not befriending Jews and Christians is concerned, this was a teaching revealed, upon the Mulsims of 1400 years ago, in Quran and it was according to the prevailing conditions at that time. Whether it applies as it is to the Muslims of today, as it is, is a detailed discussion and I don't have enough knowledge to comment on that.
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Great argument against following the literal texts revealed to ancient societies.
I didn’t intend this argument to be ‘for’ or ‘against’ the literal meaning. I just don’t have enough knowledge to pass a comment.
One thing is for sure that, even in the present times, the Christian and Jew forces of the world don’t and will never like pro-active Muslims and Muslim states, who try to increase their strength and start asserting a strateigic influence in the world. We all know that and have seen practical examples in recent times (e.g. Israel bombing Iraq’s nuclear reactor in the 70’s).
Imagine what will happen when a Muslim state becomes actually strong enough to pursue Dawaah and Jihad-bil-saif (ofcourse in the way of Allah, not for land’s sake) in the neighbouring states, on the same pattern as the Khulafa-e-Rashideen 
did.
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As far as not befriending Jews and Christians is concerned, this was a teaching revealed, upon the Mulsims of 1400 years ago, in Quran and it was according to the prevailing conditions at that time.
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Some things muslims put in this context (like having slaves and marrying adolescent girls) and others you don't. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.
Either it's an infallible and eternally applicable roadmap for life, or it's something to be taken with a grain of salt. Which is it?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Perhaps God, in His infinite wisdom, planned on the translations and interpretations of His word to be in the form of today's Bible. For those who are not beholden to literalness, the Bible can be true to the meaning of His words instead of exact words (since God did not use a recording device to record His exact words anyway.)
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Perhaps only words. Perhaps deeds.
Perhaps language translations.
Perhaps way of understanding.
Look for the similarities.
I think looking for similarities is wise.
I would say the wise parts of the bible agree.
Today refered as wisdom.
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Some things muslims put in this context (like having slaves and marrying adolescent girls) and others you don't. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.
Either it's an infallible and eternally applicable roadmap for life, or it's something to be taken with a grain of salt. Which is it?
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That's what I thought, silence when confronted with the obvious reality.
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Originally posted by Stu: *
**Either it's an infallible and eternally applicable roadmap for life*, or it's something to be taken with a grain of salt. Which is it?
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Its undoubtedly the first part. :maulvidis
Stu, I think you didn't see my last post, please read that first.
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
That's what I thought, silence when confronted with the obvious reality.
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Whoever writes such....b.s.
Have no knowledge of the Bible.
Have no knowledge of Q'ran.
I'm thinking study is needed........and desperatrely.
Tell me what you think.........in your own words.