[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by saby: *
Islamabad-- Your comments towards a pakistani city are reflecting badly on us as a nation. So please watch your words from now on. Becasue as a pakistani, we are supposed to love all cities, whether its lahore, karachi or islamabad. And because of mentiality you just exhibited in your post, we pakistanis will not progress as a nation.
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So celebrating such a festival in which people are injured and lives are lost reflects something good about Pakistan? All it shows is that we are extremists in everything. + We have no identity of our own. + Copy others and forget who we are!
I am quite aware of what I say. I have not criticised the city, but what the majority of people in the city are doing. Lahore is the heart of our beloved Pakistan. Doesn't it hurt you that so many Pakistani citizens died and got injured there in one day, for flying kites????????? and that too in the name of entertainment? This is too much!
Of course there are many good people everywhere, but most of the people there are involved in this and we see no protest. Even killings of people as a result of the basant mess does not mandate an outrage. Are human lives so cheap? I know what standards of life and death are in our country. The death of a few is a normal thing. Ask those who have lost their loved ones due to this satanic festival! If you have forgotten the two nation theory (different culture, different language, and most importantly different religion), than I haven't! I am a pure Pakistani and a proud Pakistani!
I am as Pakistani as any other brother here! How can you judge someone like that? In fact you need to review your mentality for becoming so pro-Hindusim and India by celbrating and encouraging their religious festivals! We Pakistanis will not progress as a nation, in other words not remain a nation if we start damaging the ideological foundations of Pakistan! Think rationally. Don't think with emotions ......!
First of all, you are just going in circles with your arguments in this thread i can see that. Second of all, if you see your posts honestly, you will realize that who is being ultra emotional and ultra judgemental.
Okay, lets think rationally. Shall we? First of all, Basant's origins are as vague as anyone can imagine. I dont beleive in any of them, neither pro-basant neither anti-basant. FYI, i have not lived in lahore all my life but i jsut happen to appreciate the spirith with which Lahoris celbrate it.
YES loss of lives is extremely regretful and it needs to be tactfully dealtwith to avoid future accidents. I have seen basant being celebrated when it was not a national festival and the accidents those days were more than now. So clearly the nationalizing the event has had positive effect. Festival istself is not to be blamed, rather the ppl celebrating it. So had govt. turned a blind eye towards it, you would ahve seen more deaths (God Forbid) but they are trying to minimize it. I do not think they celebrate it perfectly but they are learnign every year. Pakistani ideology has nothign to do with it and you rolling with emotions seem to bring it here somehow. Even MMA save us from that ideology discussion on basant.
Secondly, a poor person living in lahore doesnt have any moment of enjoyment and they enjoy on basant, they buy a kite, fly it and feel as if they have been part of a festival. Do they feel such on eids and other festivals? Most of them do not.
Regarding you changing your comments regarding lahore.. all i can say that start respecting people's opinions and stop labelling them as if you are the ultimate mufti and in turn, earn thier respect. I m not refuting your post in its entirity but most of the part is nothign but flowing in emotions. If you keep emotions aside while discussing on such issues, i can assure you, ppl indlucing me will beleive your posts do make sense.
I m not judging your patriotism, i did not say anything liek that. I just pointed out your negative comments regarding a city which now you claim were meant otherwise.
And about that reflecting mentality thing. Just consider one outsider visiting GS and him reading all this basant discussion and suddenly he sees what.. this?? --> EDITED PORTION--> Thats how you are supposed to post as educated grownups? Talk about being judgemental, shall we?
I must apologize if i sounded like as if i m questioning your patriotism, i did not.. but still i offer my apologies if you took it that way.
My dear brother. I always like discussions in which both sides learn. I agree that i might have sounded a bit too harsh. I apologise for this. I am an emotional person especially after seeing those deaths.
Regarding the basant, I must say that it is very attractive and I myslef used to be part of it once. Having acquired more knowledge and understanding things from a different angle outside Pakistan has changed my thinking to a great extent. Many things which I used to think are ok a few years ago, are not ok with me anymore. Maybe I have become more mature. I guess this is a natural process which everyone passes through. I would say it is Allah’s mercy, surely He gives knowledge and understanding and shows the right path. However we as humans always ask the Creator to show us the right path and keep us on the right path for the rest of our lives.
If you look at Basant as a way of entertaining oneself, than I think that it is leading to more harms than benefits. You might disagree with me as many others also. I respect you opinion. Let us analyze the pros and cons of basant and what is it leading to.
Entertainment and enjoyoment are fine as long as they are within the confines of Islam. The reason I say Islam is because I have a firm belief as a Muslim that there is good in this world and the Hereafter if we follow the way of pur Prophet :saw:. What is happening in Pakistan , and maybe all across the Muslim world? I am observing that the value of EId is lessening. Eids are a God given way of enjoying ourselves in decent ways. WHy don’t we make the 3 days of Eids more interesting within the confines of Islam. Why don’t we fill our Eids with joy and happiness and make them models for the world to see. They are not one but 3 days. So why not take advantage of them by involving the whole nation. Ofcourse we celebrate Eids, but maybe we need to make them more interesting involving everyone from rich to poor. Eid should be celebrated in which all enjoy, not just who can afford expensive kites and threads and foods.
Doesn’t Basant lead to a wastage of so many resources in a developing and poor country like ours? Loud music, people running on roads to fetch kites, disturbing traffic…and causing accidents and people falling off rooofs. Here I may say that we can take preventive measures. I think that Kite flying in itself does not contradict with the ideals of Islam. The way it is done now is bad and that too in a season which coincides with the Hindu festival.
When I used to fly kites on Basant, I never listened to people who said that it is a Hindu festival, it is in memory of a blasphemer…etc. etc…
It is from an Indian website. It clearly says Basant is a Hindu festival. So we as Pakistanis do not need to celebrate it for this very reason. If we start doing everything like them, than one day we might say, what is the difference between us and them. Why did we partition in the first place? What messages does it send to the Kashmiris. I will tell you an incident which happened when I went for Hajj and was sitting in MAsjid Al-Haraam in fron t of khana e Kaaba. I met a KAshmiri from Srinagar. We exchanged greetings and I was happy to see a KAshmiri for the first time (Occupied Kashmir). He said something while we talking that made me quiet and stunned me. He said Kasmir banega Pakistan and at the sam etime said that Pakistani media is so Indianized now. Same way of songs, etc… and us watching Indian movies etc,… He has a point. If Pakistan becomes like India in culture and everything, what incentive remains for Kashmiris to join PAkistan or even become free? In taht case they might be better off with a bigger country which already has above 150 million MUslims. …Think about it!
We have our own heritage and history dating back 100’s of years. We have been on this land since ages. Pakistan has an Islamic name associated with it. What example are we setting for others. Pakistanis are so talented, so bright and hard working. Can’t we think of something else which in any way does not match the festivals of our Hindu neighbor.
Do think deepmly about these things… I might be wrong but thats how I view these developments.
Most of you (including you AQ) dont even live in Pakistan, so whats the fuss about? Ab logoon ko kya takleef hai agar Lahoris want to have some fun with basant? Let them do whatever they want. Lahore Rocks!
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
The image claims that **a Sikh Historian Dr. B. S. Richard **writes in his book “Punjab under the [a word I can’t make out] Mogal” that a Hindu person living in Sialkot, who was *Kathri by caste and named ‘Haqiqat Bagh Mil Puri’ committed blasphemy against the Holy Prophet (saw) and Hazrat Fatima. The Gov. of Punjab at the time named Zikria Khan who was Gov from 1707 to 1759 arrested him and sent him to Lahore for due process. He was sentenced to death! The Hindus were dumbfounded with the decision and pleaded the governor for a pardon but Gov. didn’t budge and the Hindu was hanged. At which the Hindus mourned like there is no tomorrow, and in his honor they built a monument famous as "Badi Kari". And at this spot a rich Hindu man called Kalu-Ram started a festival on the day of his death, and every year the festival is celebrated in spring. Then there is a reference to the page # 279 of the above mentioned book.
Then the image (more so a pamphlet) goes on to say that the Basant is actually that festival which is celebrated all around the sub-continent and it has nothing to do with spring.
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When did name like Dr. Richard became a Sikh historian?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Most of you (including you AQ) dont even live in Pakistan, so whats the fuss about? Ab logoon ko kya takleef hai agar Lahoris want to have some fun with basant? Let them do whatever they want. Lahore Rocks!
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Maybe AQ cares about innocent people's and children.
And I guess you don't care about some body getting
killed or injured by kites. Or Jahils celebrating this
occassion and injuring people.
But hey, who cares as you are advocate of Meerasees.
Its a urdu term for singers.
Maybe AQ cares about innocent people's and children.
And I guess you don't care about some body getting
killed or injured by kites.
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Most of those that died enjoyed Basant, theres nothing you can do about it. How about banning driving? Alot more people in Lhr die from traffic accidents, dont they? Basant has become a tradition in Lahore, you cannot get rid of it son.
[quote]
Or Jahils celebrating this
occassion and injuring people.
But hey, who cares as you are advocate of Meerasees.
Its a urdu term for singers.
enjoy
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This is how self proclaimed, jahil cyber mollahs react when they are given some nice points to ponder about. Hey rehman, go and give Osama a nice warm maulish, stop wasting your time on the internet, which is haraam too.
Note To the Admin:
*
These self proclaimed cyber mollahs on GS are getting irritating. They have been dancing around and spoiling alot of threads, including the basant ones by coming in and throwing religion on ppls faces. They are also suggesting that the shor sharaba forum be closed, and are calling people marasees. I request the administration to please make it clear to them that they should stop doing that. Maybe if these cyber molvis dont like all this, they should learn how to stop logging on to GS.*
Most of those that died enjoyed Basant, theres nothing you can do about it. How about banning driving? Alot more people in Lhr die from traffic accidents, dont they? Basant has become a tradition in Lahore, you cannot get rid of it son.
This is how self proclaimed, jahil cyber mollahs react when they are given some nice points to ponder about. Hey rehman, go and give Osama a nice warm maulish, stop wasting your time on the internet, which is haraam too.
[/QUOTE]
Well, kind hearted people are talking about 2 year olds.
who get injured due to this Fazool Basant.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Spock: *
Note To the Admin:
*
These self proclaimed cyber mollahs on GS are getting irritating. They have been dancing around and spoiling alot of threads, including the basant ones by coming in and throwing religion on ppls faces. They are also suggesting that the shor sharaba forum be closed, and are calling people marasees. I request the administration to please make it clear to them that they should stop doing that. Maybe if these cyber molvis dont like all this, they should learn how to stop logging on to GS.
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This is an earnest advice:
Instead of telling people who don't agree with you or tell you something which you don't like to buzz off, how about you ignore them? If you don;t like CyberMullahs, just don't read what they post...Is that too hard? I am sure being a grownup and a self-proclaimed politician, you can do that...
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Spock: *
Note To the Admin:
*
These self proclaimed cyber mollahs on GS are getting irritating. They have been dancing around and spoiling alot of threads, including the basant ones by coming in and throwing religion on ppls faces. They are also suggesting that the shor sharaba forum be closed, and are calling people marasees. I request the administration to please make it clear to them that they should stop doing that. Maybe if these cyber molvis dont like all this, they should learn how to stop logging on to GS.
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What has gone wrong with you? i never expected such behavior from you. Is this the level of tolerance you have for a free discussion in which eeveryone has a right to discuss. Don't be closed minded, and please don't act like a mullah yourself. Traditional mullahs are closed minded, who never listen to others. If somebody is presenting points against a thing which is clearly bad and against our religion, culture and being Pakistani, why are you so angered? Learn to accept what is right and reject what is wrong, instead of using abusive language. I really did not excpect it from an educated and sensible person like you.
A word of advise........If cyber marasees call us cyber mullahs, it would lead us no where. Now honestly speaking, there are no mullaahs here and neither are any marasees, so get over it, instead of picking on each other. It would lead us no where! If one side says 100 words to abuse, than the other side also has no shortage of words!
LASTLY, Only time will tell, whether Pakistan and the Muslim world gets dominated with educated forward looking Muslims adhering to every principle of Islam or seculars who think that speaking of religion is a sin. In the glorious times of the Muslim world, Muslims were glorious and excelled in every field by sticking to the ideals of Islam. They had Islamic festivals, an Islamic way of life, all they did was for Allah's sake. If they like something , they liked it for Allah and if they disliked something that was for Allah too. Today, what do we do for Allah's sake. When we remeber Allah, then He will remember us and we will be out of this mess we are in today. Truly not by holding tight to the West and to the East (India).
In fact, it is Islam which will prevail, since it is bound to prevail......like it or not!...and not only in Pakistan, in the rest of the world....and that is what Quran, the word of God tells us!!!!
What has gone wrong with you? i never expected such behavior from you. Is this the level of tolerance you have for a free discussion in which eeveryone has a right to discuss. Don't be closed minded, and please don't act like a mullah yourself. Traditional mullahs are closed minded, who never listen to others. If somebody is presenting points against a thing which is clearly bad and against our religion, culture and being Pakistani, why are you so angered? Learn to accept what is right and reject what is wrong, instead of using abusive language. I really did not excpect it from an educated and sensible person like you.
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Speak for yourself, read what you posted on the very next post... Dont be such hypocrites, Mr. Cyber-Mollah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Most of you (including you AQ) dont even live in Pakistan, so whats the fuss about? Ab logoon ko kya takleef hai agar Lahoris want to have some fun with basant? Let them do whatever they want. Lahore Rocks!
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well its not just Lahore.. everyone celebrate Basand... i lived in karachi all my life and I used to do that alot with my brother... and now that i m in states we had a basant festival 2 yrs ago here in NJ.. it was for pakistanis living in tri state area..we had a great time... seing hundreds of pakistanis in one place was great.
Islamabad bhia: u just seee that peoples are spending hell of money on this occasion.. but you dont see where this money is going... and where they getting their kites/threads from.. and who is making all these things... they are the poor people living in pakistan.. if this occasion can help poor peoples arround the city to earn some good money then what is our problem..
its true that Islam teach us not to waste money.. laikin we do that all the time.. tab koi problem nahi hoty..... and now that this way peoples are having a good time and poor peoples are getting roozgaar then we bring Islam into this... we do several things everyday that doesnt sound good in religious propect but we still do it....
i rememe reading one of ur first few post in this thread. that girls n guys are together in one roof is wrong(i m sorry if i took u in wrong sense) ..... so who knows they might be their sister/mother or their wife?
i felt so bad when i heard about the deaths of different people..... i cant do no more than feelin sorry for the folks who lost their loved ones..... :(
i love to read good and positive discussion but never wanna be part of it.. so please dont bash me if i said something either you dont agree or u dont like... i just wanted to give you all my opinion.
First of all i do not have to justify my opinion. You still haven’t grown up like others told you! Where did I criticize you or any other people? Yes I did criticise the event and always will becuase you are all turning a blind eye to the reality that it is a Hindu festival Pakistanis are celebrating. Of course the Pakistani nation died, it was even dead when we lost half of our country!!! Sorry to say but thats how we are! Call me a mullah or whatever (thats you standard).
Many Muslimis are doing many wrong things, but that does not make those wrongs right! The standards of wrong and right are set my Allah, through his Book and the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:. They are not set by you or me! You may call me a mullah, but I won’t call you a mirasee, since its only a matter of understanding. Maybe you are those who blindly follow others, even if they lead the whole nation to hell!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani007: *
Islamabad bhia: u just seee that peoples are spending hell of money on this occasion.. but you dont see where this money is going... and where they getting their kites/threads from.. and who is making all these things... they are the poor people living in pakistan.. if this occasion can help poor peoples arround the city to earn some good money then what is our problem..
.
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proudpakistani bhai... Its not a matter of earning money or not. Here its the ideaology of Pakistan being sacrificied in the name of entertainment. Isn't this enough that basant is a "Hindu religious festival". I am not saying this, the Hindus thesmselves say it. We cannot justify a wrong way of earning just because people are earning money from it. We all make mistakes. I view that that our nation is going estray, so I am concerned.
I am out of words , may Allah guide us!
OK OK.. i agree thats it is a Hindu festival.. i never said that you are wrong... liakin aap khud socho by celebrating basant what exact we are doing wrong here.... kaun sa aisa gunnah hia jo aap karahay ho, except the damm fact that its a hinduu culture.. did Allah swt said in Quran ke dont fly kite?????????????????????
same thing will go for valentines day.. why do u guys think ke watever kaffirs are doing for fun is haraam.... cuz some people things its the day of lovers.. but thats not true... its a day for anyone you love.. mother, father, sister friends... kabhi aisa kuch ghalat nahi hota unless aap os cheeez ka ghalat faida uthao...