Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppression'

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

Education is not Federal concern now, but it used to be. When it used to be, Sindhis has to fight for their right. Have a look at the link below. sharing with you, as I know you really want to know and won’t jump to conclusion, before understanding the matter.

Once adapted in schools, Sindhi is still struggling in the province especially after introduction of English Medium schools, who even in some cases deny to teach Sindhi as a subject. This needs to be addressed by the Government and PPP is doing so to some extent.

The concern shown by WSC is not about medium of instruction, they are talking about recognition of languages as national language. What benefit such recognition would provide is to be determined and discussed. BTW, this is not a provincial matter. PPP being in Fed Govt tried to do a half hearted attempt (without any proper will) and therefore that was not settled. Having seen such attempts, if some bodies wanted to get it settled through UN, let it be. For the time being, the issue is at initial stage and we can discuss if any proceedings are undertaken by UN. At this stage, people will just cry slogans of trait / malign intentions for such demands.

18th amendment is juma juma 8 din, and provinces will need time to reverse the harm that has already been done by denying people right to study in their mother tongue considering the per centage of budget being utilised on education. Change of medium, means change of curriculum. Its not a ‘baen hath ka khel’ to change the curriculum and have capable teachers overnight to teach in mother tongue.

Just have a look what former Education Minister has to say for medium of instruction and challenges:

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

You can't replace Urdu with regional languages. You just can't.

I can get that kids might understand some concepts better in their mother tongue, but many subjects haven't been extensively even been written about in sindhi - ex. science. What science book do you know is written in sindhi??

So, the idea is let the small kids learn in their mother language - except the issue is that

1) most kids will drop out of school by 8th grade, so they won't have learned much beyond a regional language - which does not allow them TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. Therefore, they're already SOL.

2) The kids who want to do advanced grades beyond grades 6-8, will be at a sore disadvantage to kids who learned in Urdu and learned in English. They will be forever playing catch up. Go to America and check out the hurdles that Hispanic kids go through when they are non-english speaking immigrants.

You have to have one unifying language. Urdu worked, because it forced everyone in every province to learn a new language. So no one felt that one province had one-upped everyone else. It is the one thing that has worked out in Pakistan actually to unify the country.

These international groups are getting paid to screw up the social harmony that exists in the country, or whatever little of it exists. Make people start speaking different languages, and they will easily be at war with each other.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

I have studied Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics (including the geometry theorems) in Sindhi till class X. Did I have to face difficulty communicating in Other languages like Urdu and English, as those were just taught as subjects (Urdu and English both from class VI)? Not at all. We can have Urdu / English as subjects at earlier level, but giving education in Sindhi or other mother tongues is definitely not a recipe of disaster.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

18th Amendment is now 6 years old!

With Sindhi Federal government in the Centre and all Sindhi provisional government, it is very hard to propagate that Sindhi language activists or government was helpless. You cannot forever keep stressing on the baggage of past & escape all present day accountability.

Instead of taking this to the UN to defame Pakistan, how about knocking on the doors of the party that gets unopposed votes in the name of Sindhism?

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

That's already happening and had already happened in some parts of Pakistan. The situation is hopeless when you see a general sense of xenophobia there, the more I reflect on it, the more I lose respect and become bitter, and that me saying as generally a stubborn optimist.

But on second thoughts because of one failed experiment, I don't think the idea should be shelved for other provinces. There is so much room to do things differently with better planning to achieve optimal results.

The idea of teaching in mother tongue can seriously reduce illiteracy rates in rural areas where the children will find it easier to study in the language they fully understand. It gets rid of lot of self esteem issues that comes with speaking in another language. Maybe more and more children will find going to school an attractive option if they are learning in a language they fully understand.

But I'm against having hard and fast rule. One province - one language rule will not work considering there are multiple languages within a province. So it can be done on a demographic basis, i.e areas with majority Pashtun children, can have schools teaching Pashto as medium of instructions and areas with Hindko speakers - can stick to Hindko. Same with Urdu and Sindhi - Sindhi demographics can stick to Sindhi whereas Urdu speaking demographics can have Urdu.

You need professional and expert legislators to come up with an all round and flexible solutions.

In Pakistan, so much nasty politics is done in the name of language and ethnicity, that there is serious reluctance from other mainstream parties to take bold initiatives. You think PTI will get votes in Karachi (or by Muhajirs) if it jumps on the Pashto language bandwagon? Who will vote for 'Pathano ki party'?

A real Pashto revival is taking place in KPK from grass root level, with proper allocated funds in LG as a counter narrative to religious extremism and post conflict therapy for the local communities. But you don't hear PTI leaders even mentioning it because there is serious stigma of being known as party of one particular ethnic group - it ruins your chances of getting votes and acceptance in other parts of the country.

But on a positive side - because the Pashto revival has not been hijacked with political pot stirring - it has more chances of becoming successful and running smoothly. It's always the politics that pollutes such initiatives.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

What about the cultural genocide against me for forcing to learn sindhi in karachi? UN can you halp please ? :teary1:

But looking at the screamers, you have a guy who has nothing to do with GB and an indian hindu organization called WSC. Yes, i said the truth about WSC. WSC seems like an attempt by butt hurt sindhi hindus who lost land and homes in 1947; I wonder if I should start a movement for rights of sikhs as my family had lands in east punjab as well.

As far as the issue, Sindh has had sindhi medium since the time of first bhutto. The bigger issue is that the quality of sindhi speaking teachers has gone down over time; i am sure that we have seen that video of how sindhi teachers weren’t able to spell primary and do basic arithmetic operations. I think that sindhi middle class is much bigger now and perhaps someone like muqawee needs to get into teaching instead of jiyalas on quota. I am all for supporting children in their quest for education, but what about areas where there is a mixed population ? Balochis are even in worser shape as the teachers that are killed by militants of the balochi orgins are punjabis and pathans who don’t even speak balochi.

Can’t we at least start somwhere? Did the germans, dutch, and english complain about language issues when they came to get education in muslim Spain? I am pretty sure that they were more than happy to learn arabic to get the knowledge; going off on a tangent, this was mentioned by Sam Harris (famous for his anti-islam comments) that non-muslims had no ego problems when it came to learning from muslim teachers while muslims looked down about europe while it was galloping ahead in the industrial age. In a way, it reminds of Sir Syed khan who was bitterly opposed for even talking about english and western subjects when we should all have been learning persian and arabic.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

There is no compulsion in religion, so there shouldn't be any compulsion in language or culture either. Pakistan is ethnically more mixed now than 50-60 years ago. I mean what about growing Pashtun belt of Balochistan - should those kids be learning in Pashto or Balochi? What about Potohari speakers in Punjab - would they be learning in Punjabi or Potohari? If it's done wrong, there will always be a group that will feel left out or feeling that someone's language had been imposed on him. So these are things to consider and plan.

Instead of one province one language rule - these language inductions should be done on district level with view of local demographics in mind.

At the end of the day - it is all about quality of education- PCG mentioned Hispanic kids struggling in American schools because of not knowing English whereas children or professionals from European Union in UK immediately pick up English and find really good jobs because in their countries even if they learn English as single subject, the quality of teaching and learning is so good that they tend not to struggle very much. (other than getting rid of the accent).

Back in the day they used to say that Pakistani doctors struggle to pass medical exams in the UK whereas their India counterparts do much better as standards of English taught in India is much better. So at the end of the day - it is all about quality of education.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

With my following point I am going to brutally honest and express the crux of my opposition to language debate. I don't care if it makes me look angry or conflicted, compare to the kind of abuses hurled at me in the past over similar issues - these words are almost complimentary in spirit.

This is something I had shared with my Sindhi ex-colleagues in the past and believe it or not, they actually agreed with me. Either I'm more convincing in person or those guys were just true gentlemen. Actually they were really good guys.

Sindh has such seriously suppressive socio economic issues and deep rooted social and economic injustices, but why is it that Sindhi intelligentsia mainly associate the idea of 'rights' and 'struggle' with the issue of language? I can understand the attachment with language, it's commendable. But when your land has so much poverty, annual famine killing hundreds of children, injustice and cruelty subjected against common Sindhis - shouldn't the idea of seeking rights and struggle go beyond the language debate? It's about getting your priorities right.

Maybe this is all young blood socialism - what do I know. But really - the idea of Sindhis struggle for rights which could have been a vehicle for something so much more and a catalyst of working class emacipation has seemingly reduced down to just a demand for lingual supremacy.

I don't know Sindhi - I wouldn't know what they discuss in Sindhi media or literature, but do I wish that as an outsider I had a better image of Sindhi struggle for their rights? I really do.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

There is nothing wrong in having a language as national language but then which language will it be? On the basis of "most spoken language" it will be Punjabi, will small provinces accept that? We have idiots who blame everything on Punjab and they will have a field day with this. This leave only Urdu to be best candidate for being National Language. Think of it as a unifying factor.

Having said that, its the responsibility of provinces to work for the betterment of local languages. Local languages should be taught in school and in higher education institutions. Any official business (forms etc) should also have local language versions available beside English and Urdu version.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

Brother, first I’ll discuss about the people raising the hue and cry. I think some of these people are still living in the past (Sindhudesh and Pashtunistan). Gilgit Baltistan has had its fair share of issues, while AJK has had some sort of government there GB did not have any status which was a source of anguish for the people living in the area. We should give PPP credit that they have worked towards addressing this issue. A few days back some Indian tweeted to a Pakistani journalist that Ghaffar Khan’s relative (currently living in India) has asked for Pakistan to vacate KPK and form Pashtunistan. The journalist replied to him that the times have moved on, now people want their rights within the framework of Pakistan. Most of these exiles, I believe are still living in the past. No harm in that.

Now lets come back to the language issue, the debate is moving forward these days. ANP introduced local languages in KPK, but PTI as a party wants to make the curriculum the same between private and public institutes which could mean English language as the medium of instruction. After the 18th amendment if people believe that they are not being taught in the languages they’d want they should create pressure on their respective provincial govts.

Re: Baloch, Sindhi and Pakistani minorities to move UNHCR against 'language oppressio

The language issue has just not raised by separatists but educationists and ministers like Mahtab Akbar Rashidi, Zubaida Jalal. Is Mushtaq Sufi labelled separatist when he talks about Punjabi as a medium of instruction in Punjab? Why then all the emphasis is on background of such people from other provinces, when they talk about their mother tongues.

No one is demanding that Sindhi should be the only medium of instruction in Sindh. If any one is demanding so, he is living in fool's paradise as is the person who thinks that demanding for Sindhi's promotion and acceptance of it as one of the national languages of Pakistan mean Sindhi are ready to forget all the problems they are facing.