Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

[teggy]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

I think all factions need to unite for the simple fact that we're all Muslims and believe in the same God, Messenger, and recognize all other prophets that have come to pass.

These factions between muslims have done nothing but keep a strong hand spread like fingers, until we can unite and become a fist we'll always be pushed around and bullied.

We can sit down with things in common and work on economic and other trade ties between nations openly. Make middle-east and South Asia a visa-free zone for each others citizens and encourage open dialogue. Only through interaction can we resolve our misunderstandings and/or differences.

Unfortunately, the heads of Govts. in the countries are like hawks who just won't let go of their egos and insecurities even in the hope of greater good for all. It's a sad state of affairs when muslims oppress each others.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

It's a sad state of affairs when muslims oppress each others.

Agreed :(

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Of course they want to hold on to power. That's why even the Sunni populace at large in Bahrain is denied full political power.

My point is that unlike other dictatorships, Bahrain's rulers don't just have power to lose. If they loosen their grip on power they run the risk of not just being regular people like other fallen dictators. Instead, they risk being oppressed.

The Iran link is valid because the inspiration for the most popular opposition movement, the Shia Islamists, is the Iranian governmental system, which oppresses the sunni minority.

with due respect madsc, i think thats the biggest bull ever.

Do you know how the islamic revolution in iran came about in the first place? It was exactly the same situation as is in bahrain at present. The larger population was oppressed and abused by the ruling secularist elite. Eventually, after several warnings by the clergy, the people stood up in protest in masses. It wasnt just the religious, it was a popular revolution. So, if the bahraini sunni elite is trying to avoid a shia revolution, I can tell you now, it is going the way wrong about it.

secondly, your argument that sunnis are persecuted solely because they dont have mosque in tehran is slightly laughable. Infact iran does have sunni mosques in zahidaan and south of iran, where the minority sunnis are actually largely populated. Two that i can name of is jamia and makki mosque and im sure they are plenty more.

Now if preventing sunni mosques nationwide was a set policy or standard behaviour, i'd understand, but not having a mosque in one city, can hardly be put down to persecution can it? There could be other valid reasons behind it. And to be honest, if thats the only complain they have, then i think they have it pretty good in comparison.

[janab-e-ali]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman …]

@Ma_Mooli

secondly, your argument that sunnis are persecuted solely because they dont have mosque in tehran is slightly laughable. Infact iran does have sunni mosques in zahidaan and south of iran, where the minority sunnis are actually largely populated. Two that i can name of is jamia and makki mosque and im sure they are plenty more.

Now if preventing sunni mosques nationwide was a set policy or standard behaviour, i’d understand, but not having a mosque in one city, can hardly be put down to persecution now can it? There could be many other valid reasons behind it. And to be honest, if thats the only complain they have, then i think they have it pretty good in comparison.

That’s not the only complaint.

Sunnis are underrepresented in the government, even in the provinces where they form a significant portion of the population…and they are constitutionally barred from holding high-level positions in the government (president, etc). There also does seem to be some sort of nationwide effort (be it official or otherwise) against their mosques Not only does Tehran remain without a Sunni mosque, but after the 1978-1979 revolution Sunni mosques in Mashhad, Salmas, and Shahinzadeh were destroyed, and those in Shiraz, Orumieh, Sanadaj, Saqqez, and Miyandoab were closed.]. That said, one could argue that at least some of this discrimination stems from ethnic, and not religious reasons - few Iranian Sunnis are ethnic Persians…most come from marginalized ethnic groups like Kurds, Balochis, Afghans, etc…

[mufakkar]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

@Ma_Mooli

secondly, your argument that sunnis are persecuted solely because they dont have mosque in tehran is slightly laughable. Infact iran does have sunni mosques in zahidaan and south of iran, where the minority sunnis are actually largely populated. Two that i can name of is jamia and makki mosque and im sure they are plenty more.

Now if preventing sunni mosques nationwide was a set policy or standard behaviour, i'd understand, but not having a mosque in one city, can hardly be put down to persecution can it? There could be other valid reasons behind it. And to be honest, if thats the only complain they have, then i think they have it pretty good in comparison.

Not having a Sunni mosque in the capital city is a big issue especially a city the size of Tehran (pop 11--12 million?). The diplomatic presence from Islamic countries alone would justify the need to open up at least one Sunni mosque in such a large metropolis. In Islamabad by comparison with a total population a fraction that of Tehran, there are Mashallah 5--6 Imam Bargahs and more are being built.

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

^ thats all kewl and that 'cept having a mosque would probably depend on the the number of the small sunni pop. in tehran. secondly, i dont know much about when or why those mosques were closed, but if its to suppress and discrminate a minority, then thats a no-no, and definately against what iran stands for.

To be honest, i find it hard to believe for the reason being, i spent several months in iran recently, in one of the most religious cities in iran (Qum) where i had sunni room mates aswell as catholic class mates. And despite folks openly knowing this, there was no sectarian issue whatsoever. An if there had been, I would have been the first to know, cause we were good mates.

However, they were free to do what they wanted in terms of religion and the staff were surprisingly quite sensitive with respect to thier beliefs and culture.

I recall one senior girl who used to keep pictures of her sunni imam by her bedside and pray her own way. And noone questioned her or was hostile towards her over it. What surprised me, was that in a religious and devout hawza where probably 99% are of shia beliefs, having that kind of open attitude towards minorities, is pretty telling sign i think, of the wider community. And considering Qum is the home town of religious scholars and Ayatullahs, and Tehran being one of the most modern and liberal city in Iran, it would be surprising if tehranis had hostile attitudes towards sunnis.

oh an I also attending a conference, where sunni and shia scholars were discussing sectarian issues in pakistan. And i didnt see any hostility whatsoever. Infact t'was quite the opposite.

[ravage]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

do you think mooli bibi that you could have been presented a more sanitized view, given that you were a foreign student and non-representative of a typical resident?

also, it is quite possible that there is more discrimination in tehran vs other cities such as Qum. Qum is the spiritual center whereas tehran is the political center, and political decisions such as discrimination against sunnies (which has no religious basis) is usually done much more strictly in capitals.

Just as there are no shia centers in the seat of power in KSA (Riyadh) vs the east of the country such as dahran. Also it is not a coincidence that there is a small shia population in Riyadh. On the other hand there have been unity conferences in Saudia and I am such while the shia delegates were there they probably werent beaten up or anything

[mufakkar]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

@Ma_Mooli

^ thats all kewl and that 'cept having a mosque would probably depend on the the number of the small sunni pop. in tehran. secondly, i dont know much about when or why those mosques were closed, but if its to suppress and discrminate a minority, then thats a no-no, and definately against what iran stands for.

To be honest, i find it hard to believe for the reason being, i spent several months in iran recently, in one of the most religious cities in iran (Qum) where i had sunni room mates aswell as catholic class mates. And despite folks openly knowing this, there was no sectarian issue whatsoever. An if there had been, I would have been the first to know, cause we were good mates.

However, they were free to do what they wanted in terms of religion and the staff were surprisingly quite sensitive with respect to thier beliefs and culture.

I recall one senior girl who used to keep pictures of her sunni imam by her bedside and pray her own way. And noone questioned her or was hostile towards her over it. What surprised me, was that in a religious and devout hawza where probably 99% are of shia beliefs, having that kind of open attitude towards minorities, is pretty telling sign i think, of the wider community. And considering Qum is the home town of religious scholars and Ayatullahs, and Tehran being one of the most modern and liberal city in Iran, it would be surprising if tehranis had hostile attitudes towards sunnis.

oh an I also attending a conference, where sunni and shia scholars were discussing sectarian issues in pakistan. And i didnt see any hostility whatsoever. Infact t'was quite the opposite.

That is very encouraging to know. I have noticed in general that sect tends to be a bigger issue outside of Pakistan.

[janab-e-ali]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

@Ma_Mooli

^ thats all kewl and that 'cept having a mosque would probably depend on the the number of the small sunni pop. in tehran.

It's not that small.

In a city of about 11 million, there are over 1 million Sunnis (over 9% of the population). In contrast, in New York City there are an estimated 600,000 Muslims, or just 7% of the total population...and yet, they have been allowed to construct over 100 mosques.

[Ma_Mooli]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman …]

@ravage

do you think mooli bibi that you could have been presented a more sanitized view, given that you were a foreign student and non-representative of a typical resident?

possibly, but then we werent all foreigners, infact we were a minority amongst the citizens. so it could have been a realistic repr. for all we know.

also, it is quite possible that there is more discrimination in tehran vs other cities such as Qum. Qum is the spiritual center whereas tehran is the political center, and political decisions such as discrimination against sunnies (which has no religious basis) is usually done much more strictly in capitals.

Yep, thats what ive been thinking, its most likley a political/ethnic issue rather than purely sectarian or religious. But it shouldnt be happening…

Just as there are no shia centers in the seat of power in KSA (Riyadh) vs the east of the country such as dahran. Also it is not a coincidence that there is a small shia population in Riyadh. On the other hand there have been unity conferences in Saudia and I am such while the shia delegates were there they probably werent beaten up or anything

I dont mean hostile as in a physical beat up :halo: but more so as the general atmosphere.

[Spock]

Re: Bahrains Treament of Shias [split: Bahrain appoints Jewish woman ...]

Yes, Sunnis are treated like crap in Iran, just like how shias are treated like crap in Bahrain.